Program won't run

[Sweetglide]

We are trying to get our table up and running and have NOTHING but problems.

When we try to run any program, the torch comes down to the material, pierces, and then the torch raises up and the program freezes.

We've checked all the wires, moved the computer & controller 16 feet away from the plasma cutter, and we are still having this issue.

We have an 8 foot ground rod sunk into the ground about 6 inches from the table leg, ground wire running from the plasma to the rod, and a very short ground wire (same as the other ground wire) running from the rod to the table.

Running an older Torchmate GMX table with Torchmate version 9 software, the blue screen torch controller box, and a brand new Hypertherm 105 sync.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[adbuch]

We are trying to get our table up and running and have NOTHING but problems.

When we try to run any program, the torch comes down to the material, pierces, and then the torch raises up and the program freezes.

We've checked all the wires, moved the computer & controller 16 feet away from the plasma cutter, and we are still having this issue.

We have an 8 foot ground rod sunk into the ground about 6 inches from the table leg, ground wire running from the plasma to the rod, and a very short ground wire (same as the other ground wire) running from the rod to the table.

Running an older Torchmate GMX table with Torchmate version 9 software, the blue screen torch controller box, and a brand new Hypertherm 105 sync.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

How far does it raise up? Have you calibrated your cut height and thc?
David

[Sweetglide]

It will run full program in dry run, but once it starts cutting, it will only cut the lead in to the part and stops once it starts to run the program for set part.

[TJS]

Where do you have the work lead from the plasma machine attached to. Does this TM system have a torch height control. If so, is there a way to bypass it for testing. You are getting a motion hold it sounds like.

[weldguy]

Do you see any errors on the Hypertherm unit when this happens?

When the machine motion stops after the lead in does the torch remain ON or does it turn OFF?

[Sweetglide]

The work lead is run from the plasma cutter to our grounding rod, and then from the rod to the table.

The table does have THC. No errors on the plasma cutter itself, but we have gotten error code 1900- "timed out while attempting to send data" from the software. When the torch travels up, it goes up the the travel limit and both stays on and also shuts off.

To make it even more frustrating, the table has previously work on a couple test pieces, now it just decided to stop working.

[adbuch]

Insufficient air pressure to the plasma cutter could cause your torch not to fire. What air pressure do you have at the entrance to the plasma cutter? I run Hypertherm and have mine set to 100 psi at the plasma cutter while air is flowing thru the torch. Also best to attach your work lead directly to the metal you are cutting.

David

[Sweetglide]

Insufficient air pressure to the plasma cutter could cause your torch not to fire. What air pressure do you have at the entrance to the plasma cutter? I run Hypertherm and have mine set to 100 psi at the plasma cutter while air is flowing thru the torch. Also best to attach your work lead directly to the metal you are cutting.

David

David, Currently we have 108PSI at the cutter. I was instructed by Torchmate that we MUST have an 8 foot ground rod to alleviate any electronic interference. Before we had the ground rod and had the clamp on the table, slats, and work piece, we had these same issues. One day it worked and the next day it doesn't.

[weldguy]

The work lead is run from the plasma cutter to our grounding rod, and then from the rod to the table.

The table does have THC. No errors on the plasma cutter itself, but we have gotten error code 1900- "timed out while attempting to send data" from the software. When the torch travels up, it goes up the the travel limit and both stays on and also shuts off.

To make it even more frustrating, the table has previously work on a couple test pieces, now it just decided to stop working.

Not sure what gauge wire connects your grounding rod to the table, but if you have the Hypertherm work lead clamped to the grounding rod the wire from the rod to the table needs to be the same size or larger. I don't think this is your problem but I thought I should mention that.

As for the problem I would do some straight line test cuts (straight lines can be grouped close together to save on material for testing) and I would turn the THC OFF. Do this to eliminate the THC as the issue since you don't have this problem with dry runs. I am curious if the machine behaves the same with the THC off since what you are describing can often be seen when THC's are not functioning properly.

[Sweetglide]

When we hooked up the cutter to the rod, we shortened the wire, and used that cut-off piece to run from the rod to the table. So, both wires are the same.

As far as testing, it'll "run" just fine when the torch is off. We can cut straight lines and shapes as well. When we turn on the torch.... not so much! We've gone over the wire to ensure they are secure and properly connected and everything looks good.

[Sweetglide]

Another issue we run into when we have the torch on, is the software page will shut down (close) completely. We were told by Torchmate this was happening because we didn't have a ground rod. Now we do and it is still happening!

[tcaudle]

not onl;y do you need a "noise rod" it needs to connect to the table and you really need another lead from a table point ot connect to the material. See, table slats and connectiosn get corroded over time and buid up of slag. Both those cause a less than quality connection and can contribute to poor cuts and added noise . Its also BAD if you have the table (and its rod) tied to your AC ground . It simply pumps the noise from the workclamp (no its NOT Ground on the plamsa) inot the whole AC feed and your controls and computer. When you callit a "ground" electricians freak out and are taught to bond all grounds together for safety. So conduit is typically AC ground and varies in resistance depending how far it is from the main building grounds at the breakers.
The Noise rid close tot he table is designed to bypass the plasma noise to the earth . The table does not have AC voltage (shop voltage) on it nor does it have a neutral connection so running it with no rod is not dangerous. Try explaining that to an electrician. its like hooking up your car electronics. The car ground doe snot need to be connected to a true earth ground or a building ground. A plasma is a high voltage battery and workclamp is the POSITIVE battery lead.
Another no-no is running the computer and controller off the same AC feed as the plasma cutter. , . It gets even dicier if its 3Phase power.

Noise issues are not always about grounds but about noise paths and what is connected to what..

[weldguy]

Take Tom's advice above he has forgotten more than I will ever know. Sounds like all your issues could be related to the electrical noise. Be sure that your computer, controller, monitor, and everything else that plugs into a standard AC outlet have the ground lugs on the plugs. If your using extension cords be sure the cord has a ground lug in it and be sure the outlets you are plugging these into have a proper functioning ground.

[adbuch]

Another option might be to use a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) to power your pc and controller.

"The main advantage of an online UPS is its ability to provide an "electrical firewall" between the incoming utility power and sensitive electronic equipment. The online UPS is ideal for environments where electrical isolation is necessary or for equipment that is very sensitive to power fluctuations."

David

[tcaudle]

As an old UPS design engineer there is something to be said about the Online UPS approach but keep in mind that while they will clean-up the AC Hot side it won't get rid of ground noise. For those that wonder: Most UPS's are "standby" They run off the wall power until it fails and switch to a battery based inverter until power comes back for more than a few seconds. While they are cheaper the charger is a not more than it takes to trickle charge the batteries over time. Typical "ride though" times for a standby is in the 15 to 20 minute range then it needs hours to recharge. They may or may not catch line surges . An online model has a larger inverter that runs all of the time and the Line side is converted to DC then fed to the inverter AND the battery . It isolates the AC from the wall so things like noise, surges and brown outs are handled . By code, safety ground and neutral have to be passed though so there are still conduits for noise. Most of the problems do not come via the AC since the motors and the electronics all run off DC and not directly off the AC line. I f its REALLY bad it can effect some things like the computer video and other magnetically sensitive components. An AC line filter can take care of most "noise" on the AC primary.

Grounds are elusive and weird things. There is no TRUE ground since all are RELATIVE to other grounds based on the conductivity of the earth between them. Wiring for safety means you won't see more than 5 or so volts difference between grounds or between neural and ground BUT that is at 60 hz. Higher frequency signals operate differently . Distance is more critical and they can seek multiple paths based on each paths resistance
Modern electronics use voltages that are in the 3V to 5V range and a logic level can be less than half of that in a system that has good noise rejection. Not enough to be unsafe is a long way form low noise.

In Electronics we have different "grounds" There is Circuit Ground, Chassis Ground, Safety Ground and in some cases separate Digital and Analog Grounds.

I guess the best way to explain it is that outside the controls you have "clean" grounds and "dirty" grounds and mixing them can cause problems. Clipping a noise generator (aka plasma cutter, arc welder, MIG/TIG welder) to a ground that may not be real low resistance makes it "dirty"

It can be challenging to track down noise issues . MOST of it travels via a common CONNECTION, not though the air. Generally the lower the frequency the more power it takes to shove it through air . Electromagnetic "fields" radiate out form wires and some structures that can case "crosstalk" where the signal inducts itself onto the the other structure. The fields are strongest around wires with heavy current . While shielding can help distance cause cross talk to decrease at the square of the distance. 6 inches to a foot can make a lot of difference. Two wires running parallel to each other for a long distance are the best supporters of crosstalk. Wires can act like antennas and carry signals back into the source or the cabinet you don't intend. Its best not to lay signal wires in parallel with torch leads or in some cases stepper wires . Crossing at right angles creates very little cross talk.

So remember: like my old college EE prof said "Ground is not ground" I though he was crazy at the time, NOW I understand.

[adbuch]

I was referring to the UPS units that run all the time to condition the ac power. Proper table grounding is recommended as well. I don't personally use a UPS, but do have proper ground rod and grounding scheme. I have never had an issue with my table - communications or otherwise. I believe there are some who do run a UPS with their Plasmacam tables - I seem to remember Robert talking about it.

David