Powermax 1250 Torch Upgrade? 10-4-15 Updated with pics.

[illusivedf]

I have just upgrade my Dynatorch 4x8 2007 model with Powermax 1250 to a dual X axis motor from the single and driveshaft setup to smooth out my cuts. When I did the upgrade Ric at Dynatorch told me if I also upgrade my torch to the new consumable style machine torch that would help out with my cut quality as well. But I wanted to see what kind of improvement just the extra motor upgrade would have. While I was doing the dual motor upgrade I also added and changed out the old rough gear rack to their new finer pitch rack and it seems like it gets smoother engagement as well as added a second vee rail to the slave side to ride on.

I have cut a couple sheets 16ga-3/8" plate so far since the upgrade. The machine runs smoother for sure just putting my hand on it while running it the torch does not shake no where near as bad as it use to. It's pretty smooth now. The machine seems to cut holes smoother and more round with less jagged movements in the cuts. However I really need to get the kerf angle better on thicker materials. I have been reading around and the new Duramax torch is supposed to have better kerf quality. How much of an improvement have people seen? Does anybody have before and after pictures of the same parts, especially parts with bolt holes? Do you really see a good improvement in consumable life? What other benefits are there to upgrading the torch?

[jimcolt]

The Duramax torch uses Hypertherm's conical flow nozzle technology. Squarer, cleaner cut edges and dramatically longer nozzle life.

Jim Colt

[Shane Warnick]

I am currently cutting with a 1250 with a T80m machine torch. New powermax 85 is otw. I will try and run some comparison cuts on some scrap, I think I have some 3/4" laying around, as well as some 1/2". I will cut some circles and maybe squares out of the 3/4" and maybe do the same as well as some holes out of the 1/2" and post some pics. Will be a week, maybe 10 days so hang in there. I will probably start a new post as this comes up quite a bit, but will either post here when I do or send you a pm.

Shane

[illusivedf]

Sounds good, funds are kind of low for me right now until tax season starts kicking in probably next month but, I want to get an idea of what I would expect from the upgrade as far as cut quality goes. I also have some consumables to use up as well.

[illusivedf]

Here is a picture for reference of my current cuts from today on 1/4" P&O. I had setup to run 40 amp to see what kind of difference I would have from 60amp speeds, but halfway through the parts I realized I had the plasma on 60 amp still and forgot to turn it down to match the nozzle so I'm sure I opened it up. I tried turning the machine down to 40 amp but it just crashed so I put it back at 60amps and it ran fine. But the motion control is sooooo much smother with dual x axis motors, the finer gear rack and vee rails on both sides. My parts used to be really jagged on the edges and holes were somewhat oval. but I would like to get the kerf angle as good as I can get it.

You cant really tell in the pic but the top round parts of those small 4 link tabs has a huge taper to them but the straight cuts are pretty straight, only a couple degrees . Also need to call Dynatorch and see if we can tune my torch height control a little better seems like it moves up and down a lot still even on flat plate, although not as bad as it did with that driveshaft setup. But if everybody is saying the upgraded torch is going to get me better cuts I think it will be worth it because, my main competition is either laser cut or some really sloppy plasma cuts and I want my quality as close to laser as I can get without a huge amount of $$$$

[Shane Warnick]

Well,
The new PM85 showed up. I have yet to get time to cut anything thicker than 1/4" mild steel with it, but I would wholeheartedly say GET THE DURAMAX TORCH!!! I am about to post some pics over in the cut quality forum (thread link here http://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15440 ) , I am cutting 14g mild steel at 212 ipm with virtually ZERO DROSS. I tried it at 220 ipm per the book specs, but occasionally (I don't know why) it will go from cutting through to just gouging and then drop back through again and cut fine. More than likely height control related, but it is rock solid at 212ipm and the only places there is any dross is where it slows down for corners etc. I would do it again in a heartbeat. I was going to keep my powermax 1250 for a backup machine, but now I am thinking about just selling it as I don't want to go back to using it with the T80M torch. Now I have to decide if I want to upgrade the machine torch on it and just sell the T80M, or just bounce the whole rig. Decisions decisions. Anyways, if you can work it in at all, get the Duarmax torch. The cuts on 1/4" are square as they can be (really, they look like laser cuts), and have only a small amount of dross on the back side, which flakes off easily. I think I ended up at around 45 ipm with a 45 amp nozzle, but the edges are SOOO square, and man the hole quality is miles better than the old torch. I cut some 5/16" holes in the 1/4" plate, and they were only out 12 THOUSANDTHS (yes, 0.012") from the top to the bottom.

Do the upgrade, and when you do, get the copper plus electrodes as well. I am not sure I can wear the damn things out. I am still on the first one, and it barely looks used after almost 4500" of cut.

Shane

[Nacs Fab]

I recently upgraded my 1250 to the duramax torch and I will tell you, I have put miles on my consumables compared to my old TM80 torch.

This is a direct comparison of laser cut steel vs. plasma cut with this torch. When you compare the top - it is hardly distinguishable which is which. As Jim Colt says - its not fair to compare a 13k home built system to a 420k laser system, but I love that I CAN!

I talk to my steel supplier every time I go in to get more steel and they say their consumable sales have dropped 80% due to the new torch technology. Now that's saying something.

I changed my torch to a mini torch as well, it tells you how in the instruction manual. Also when you upgrade, you get a box of consumables with it (fine cut, with shield; 45 amp, 65 amp & 85 amp sheilded, with shield and an electrode) - I am still on that same box, with exception of adding a few new nozzles when i eventually used mine up. You will also use ONLY the new cut charts supplied with the torch, all your old cut charts are blown out of the water because we can cut faster with this torch. Faster equals less time...

These cuts are made at 100ipm at 45 amps, arc voltage of 137 - all book specs. I did slow down the holes, as directed by Jim in the Tips and Tricks threads on the boards here.

[illusivedf]

Yea I had seen your post with these pics, they look great. I'm still wondering how bumping the speed up to 65 amps would effect the quality, but then again I think I was cutting at 60amps slower than what you cut those with. It's great how square they are especially around the outside corners. I noticed my machine is cutting a lot better since the upgrade except the outside rounded corners like on a 4 link tab still have some taper to them.

What kind of Kerf offset are you using in your tool programing? Those brackets look dead on with the laser cut parts.

I am probably going to pull the trigger on the new torch as soon as I can get some more funds in the bank, hopefully next month. I found some parts I had cut on the old setup I'll have to post a comparison shot before the upgrades I did so people can see how much the torch was shaking. So, I am happier now that I did the upgrades on the table but, if I can upgrade the torch and get all my cuts that square, then I can stop outsourcing some of my parts to a laser cutter. (even know I'm having them cut for just over the price I am paying for steel alone). I can stock less inventory that way because the laser is all about volume.

I also want to get the logic trace digitizing board, the pneumatic scribe, and eventually the oxy-fuel torch setup maybe one day but the torch upgrade is first on the list. Thanks for the help and info everybody.

[Nacs Fab]

The kerf widths are also in the manual but I used a width in the charts of 0.061" for 10 ga, 45amp shielded cutting. This is one thing I love about the new torch, Hypertherm has all of the info we require to burn in a CNC environment. When they created the manual for the 1250 T80M torch, they left out some things inadvertently - of course, I could always get mine to work through trial and error, but now I just go by what book spec says.

[illusivedf]

Good to know, yea it has always been a guessing game with my torch, I just sort of found a size that let the bolt holes come out decent and the outsides of the parts may have been slightly off not sure as they are not as critical normally in the stuff I do. As well as account for the roughness in my machine before the upgrades. Thanks, I guess I just need to sart setting a side a couple bucks from each job to put towards the new torch.

[illusivedf]

Just wanted to update that I finally broke down and ordered my Duramax upgrade torch. I was just about out of consumables for it (just keep the rest for the hand torch that almost never gets used). Hopefully it will be here soon, I can't wait to switch things over. I should probably take the time to flip my slats while the machine is down. Now to decide what to do with my old machine torch as it works perfectly fine. Sell it, save it in case something happens to the Duramax, or figure out some kind of new tool or holder to use it on for something else. I do have an extra motor for my CNC so I was also thinking about just permanently mounting it on my tube rotator off the side of my Dynatorch, I would just have to add a new lifter x axis slide assembly I think and swap the cables around when I use it.

[illusivedf]

Also I am looking at the consumable kits for the torch and it is saying that fine cuts use the same swirl ring as the other nozzles except with a hand torch it uses a different swirl ring? I'm wondering why?

[jimcolt]

There is a special Finecut swirl ring for hand cutting, however it is only needed if you experience difficulties with getting the torch to transfer the arc to thin material, such as when edge starting with a hand torch. The swirl ring changes the flow and swirl pattern, making the arc transfer to the material easier. There is no need for using the fine cut swirl ring when the torch is machine mounted.....either the hand torch or the machine torch.

Make sure that you use the new cut charts that are included on a Disc with your new Duramax torch. The cutting specs are substantially different.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

[illusivedf]

Well it's here! Can't wait to get it installed and test things out, It came with 1 of each nozzle 45, 65 85, amp as well as a fine cut and retainer (non ohmic) So I am adding a noise cancelling capacity to my Dynatorches THC to smooth it out a bit and having a friend build me an OHMIC relay board so hopefully will be cutting again mid- late next week.

[illusivedf]

Well I finally was able to fire the machine up today, took the time to clean out 9 years worth of slag and dross and flip my slats first. I have the OHMIC sensing finally working which is a world of difference vs the pressure sensing method. I ran the machine for a couple hours today with 45 amp and 65 amp nozzles and the same electrode everything seems to cut pretty smooth (I'm sure cleaning the mass amount of buildup off the slats helped as well). I guess I am going to have to run it a bit more to see what the biggest differences are between the Duramax upgrade and the old torch. There is very little to no dross on the bottom of the parts which is nice but then again I'm not sure how much the slats were effecting the cuts. It's like a new machine again, well all of the upgrades have made it better than when I got it new.

You can see how bad the slats and downdraft table shields were here lol https://instagram.com/p/7MGYTfD5qz/?tak ... llusivefab

I do have a question for Jim or anybody else that might know but does anybody know what the exact amperage is on the notches on the Powermax 1250? I looked in the book and could not find anything, there is a marking between 25 and 40 amps as well as between 40 and 60 and then one after 60 and I never realized how far 80 amps was from the 60 amp setting.

I am kind of guessing the first notch is 30amp? and then the second blank marking is 50amp and then the 3rd blank mark I am kind of clueless because its closer to 60amp but the 80 setting is so far away from it.

[jimcolt]

The marks on the amperage knob do not have definite amperages assigned to them. When the unit is built the maximum clockwise position will be maximum amperage (plus or minus about 1 amp). The 0 and 60 amp marks will be within an amp or 2 as well. The other marks are not necessarily assigned to a specific amperage. If you want to see what each mark is....borrow or buy a clamp on DC ampmeter. Simply clamp the meter on the work lead and do some test cuts with the amperage knob in each position and record the readings. In regards to cutting....if you are within 3 to 5 amps of the suggested amperage (from the Duramax cut charts) the cut quality will be fine. Of more importance is cut height.

Make sure you are using the Duramax cut charts that are included in the upgrade kit for the torch (on a Disc). I see many that do the upgrade....never load the disc, and muddle along using the old cut charts from the original torch. The specs are quite different, and assuming you are controlling height accurately, piercing according to specs, etc., the cut quality and consumable life will be far superior to that of the original Powermax1250 torch.

Best regards, Jim Colt

[illusivedf]

I just wanted to update this with some pics, link tabs are 1/4" P&O and long parts are 3/8" P&O cut on the Dynatorch. I Can't believe how long I have been using one electrode and 45 amp nozzle (used a 65 amp same electrode for the 3/8") I'm not even using the copper plus yet, I wanted to try and run out the normal ones I have first just to get a solid idea of how long they would last. Those 1/4" tabs are some of my last cuts after using the consumables on a couple sheets of plate. I am very happy with all of the upgrades I have done to my machine over the past year.

I can pretty much use a putty knife and lightly slide it over the bottom of the parts and knock what little dross there is left off. Just using the specs that came with the new Duramax torch, I still need to check the actual cut height some how as I have just been relying off the OHMIC sensing for initial search and then the retract for pierce and then voltage. I have some other new settings I have not yet played around with in my Dynatorch software, from when upgraded with I added my Slave X axis last year. I have pretty much been full production as soon as I put the machine back together, so I may need to find some free time to try and play with the new settings a little just to see what it does.