New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by Joe Jones »

adbuch wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:26 pm
Not a "claim", but a fact. The salesman listed on the invoice is was BEH. Total invoice cost was $4833. Controller was priced at $1995 and listed on the invoice as "New, extra spare controller". Also bought carriage, carriage loader w/ roller, torch clamp with grips, loader springs, main wiring harness, and gantry. This was all purchased back in early 2017. I did ask if I needed an additional license and was told by BEH that this would be considered as an extension of my main table - so no additional software need be purchased.
Interesting. I got a completely different reaction from PlasmaCam.
Checking back in my records, I see that I spent over $30k with Plasmacam on new equipment and software in 2017. I think they consider me a good customer.

David
Uh huh. :roll: I am about twenty five times that amount into "All Things PlasmaCam" now. I'm sure you will argue the point, but the fact is, if I came to Kentucky to open a restaurant, or a movie theater, or an ice cream store, I would not have purchased nearly all of the things that were purchased specifically because I run these tables. You have a nice machine shop full of expensive machines and tools, but I doubt that you bought ANY of them specifically because you owned a PlasmaCam table.

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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by adbuch »

Joe Jones wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:14 am

Uh huh. :roll: I am about twenty five times that amount into "All Things PlasmaCam" now. I'm sure you will argue the point, but the fact is, if I came to Kentucky to open a restaurant, or a movie theater, or an ice cream store, I would not have purchased nearly all of the things that were purchased specifically because I run these tables. You have a nice machine shop full of expensive machines and tools, but I doubt that you bought ANY of them specifically because you owned a PlasmaCam table.

Joe
Geeze Joe, you've really got me beat! You spent 3/4 Million on Plasmacam related things. A guy would have to be really loaded, or have some sort of trust fund to come up with that kind of dough. More power to you! And maybe you can make some of it back when you start selling your new invention.

David
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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by robertspark »

for a guy that is critical of plasmacam as a company, supportive of the product plasmacam and spent a vast amount of money with them still...
where would this quote sit?
"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me"
... sounds like plasmacam are the real winners here all the way to the bank and can weather any criticism of them just fine given you keep buying product from them like an addict buys from a dealer.....
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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by adbuch »

If this thread is still alive in a few months, and hasn't died of "natural causes" - then I would wager this might very well become one of the longest threads (post wise) in the history of this forum. With respect to Joe, it is really hard to see how one could spend that much money on Plasmacam related items. I'm sure some of that went into his metal arts store front there in his town, which I suspect is now defunct (the store, that is). He may be counting vehicles to transport materials, his home/workshop, travel expenses, and any number of other "Plasmacam" related expenses. I expect he will give us the full break down in one of his upcoming posts. So stay tuned!
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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

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adbuch wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:55 am With respect to Joe, it is really hard to see how one could spend that much money on Plasmacam related items. I'm sure some of that went into his metal arts store front there in his town, which I suspect is now defunct (the store, that is). He may be counting vehicles to transport materials, his home/workshop, travel expenses, and any number of other "Plasmacam" related expenses. I expect he will give us the full break down in one of his upcoming posts. So stay tuned!
You are CORRECT! The fact of the matter is, my two shops were build specifically because of the first purchase of the Samson 510 table with the Full Monty of software, and the subsequent tables, etc.

I did NOT buy 3/4 Million dollars of PlasmaCam product. That is a bad assumption. I said that as a direct result of diving head first into "All Things PlasmaCam," and setting up "A Guy In Town, LLC" I have spent that much money, nearly all of it as a result of diving into Plasmacam head first, and I do not expect to see the greatest majority of it ever returned. I did not get into PlasmaCam because I needed an income. I got into it because I needed something to do until I die, and I like to work with my hands. I assessed all of the experience I gathered from my previous employment positions and concluded that going into the creation of signs and metal art fit me well.

Yes, the retail store on the square was $200K, and add in another $40K to turn it into a metal art store. No mortgages.
I paid cash for everything. The store is not defunct. It became an albatross, after a conflict with people I trusted, and the legal costs of pulling that knife out of my back. Frankly, I am GLAD I sold it before this covid hoax/zombie apocalypse began.

Setting up six vendor booths, monthly rentals and building the displays, etc. $300K for the FrankenBarn, which is built entirely around the concept of a large woodshop for the 510 table with the router, and the other tools that support products made with that table. On the second floor, four guest bedrooms with baths and a large common area for seminar guests for the (once planned, and still on the drawing board :roll: ) Bed-and-Breakfast PlasmaCam seminars, with a workshop extension for four more Samson 510 tables. It would already be in operation if PlasmaCam didn't tell me to POUND SAND at the suggestion that they help ME to promote THEIR PRODUCTS via a simple discount on DesignEdge software upgrades at "seminar ONLY prices." I was ready to put $150K into that plan.

Add $7K for a rotary screw air compressor to provide a clear source of dry air for cutting at night, while not disturbing the neighbors. $14K for a good used Toyota forklift to move the sheet metal around. $100K to turn the pole barn into the metal shop that is is today. 34 shelving units for everything at $180.00 each. $2,500.00 for a RANGER parts washer.

Toss in a plethora of cordless tools, batteries and chargers, power tools and machines, and a truck load of consumables for all of them. Add 3 bandsaws, 7 drill presses, two table saws, five radial arm saws, belt sanders, scroll saws, a drum sander and three dozen other single machines and power tools, the 80-gallon air compressor and Ingersoll-Rand air dryer for the FrankenBarn... NONE of that was free. Here sits $14K worth of 4x8 sheets of plexiglass, hardboard, 48 sheets of 4x8 Color-Core panels, pallets of sheet metal in hot roll, cold roll, and stainless, in various gauges, the 44"x60" TraceLOGIC tablet, the spare PlasmaCam parts I have purchased, like spare controller boxes, spare gantry assemblies, spare carriage assemblies, SIX BOSS MFG magnetic torch mounts, spare wiring harnesses, the PlasmaCam engraver, belts, springs, cam followers, etc. etc.

I'll pause while you change the batteries in your calculator. :lol:

Shall I go on? Most recently, a $3,300.00 planer, a $2,500 finger brake, a $3,500 fiber laser, a $500 mag drill, another thousand dollars for a rolling tool cabinet for the FrankenBarn YET to be stocked with tools ...

Yes. Since my first $29K purchase of the first 510 table with the Full Monty of software, I have EASILY spent about 3/4 Million dollars on "All Things PlasmaCam." I don't buy any tool because it will help me to make a better casserole or improve my bowling score. This is ALL the result of falling deeper into the rabbit hole, and occasionally making a buck or two by selling things I made along the way.

It is fair to say that nearly ALL of it would not have been purchased, if I just decided at age 52, to "retire" and drive around the country in a new mid-life-crisis red Corvette, handing $100 tips to cute waitresses. In that scenario, NONE of this %$^& would be here.

Joe
Last edited by Joe Jones on Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by Joe Jones »

adbuch wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:55 am If this thread is still alive in a few months, and hasn't died of "natural causes" - then I would wager this might very well become one of the longest threads (post wise) in the history of this forum.
THIS forum maybe. I don't bring politics to PlasmaSpider, but I can assure you that this is just a small example of some of the threads that have started with a simple post. :HaHa

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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by Joe Jones »

Holy BeGEEZUZ! :Wow

So I was looking into making the whole pipe cutter machine out of 80/20 T-Slot aluminum extrusion. I inquired about the price of this stuff. The 3"x6" extrusion, their largest size, is $40.00 per linear foot! That means the gantry slide for the carriage and crane arm assembly would be nearly $500.00 alone. :Sad I am making changes now. I will probably stick with 80/20, but I have to find a way to get the same rigidity across 12 feet of space, for something closer to $10.00 per foot.

I should have purchased a FrankenBarn FULL of this stuff ten years ago.

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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by Joe Jones »

adbuch wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:17 am
Geeze Joe, you've really got me beat! You spent 3/4 Million on Plasmacam related things. A guy would have to be really loaded, or have some sort of trust fund to come up with that kind of dough. More power to you! And maybe you can make some of it back when you start selling your new invention.

David
I have over 20 rail lift kits to sell, but I have to replace the lost ACME screws for them first. I put them ... somewhere. :Sad

This pipe cutter is basically a project to see how far I can take it. It would be great if I could make some money off of it somehow, but I am a realist. Selling ONE of them to an unscrupulous person will result in the plans and photos being spread everywhere, to people who are perfectly capable of making it on their own. Legal protections are only as effective as the money spent to enforce them. A patent would be "nice" but it is not practical. I will probably make one for myself, and then send out the files with the final drawings and dimensions, and wish everyone a nice day. :roll:

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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by robertspark »

try this company, I use them in the UK and they have proved to be very cost effective.

there is no chit chat with them, you buy the product. they ship the product.....

https://www.motedis-usa.com/shop/index.php

$24/meter or about $7/floor for 20x80
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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by acourtjester »

Joe "I have to replace the lost ACME screws for them first. I put them ... somewhere. :Sad" when I lose thing I get real quiet and listen, they are somewhere close laughing at me looking for them. :HaHa I cannot tell the number of times I have lost thing, only to find them right under my nose.
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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

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robertspark wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:00 am try this company, I use them in the UK and they have proved to be very cost effective.

there is no chit chat with them, you buy the product. they ship the product.....

https://www.motedis-usa.com/shop/index.php

$24/meter or about $7/floor for 20x80
Thanks. I will look at the website and see what they have, and their pricing. However, I really TRY to "Buy American" whenever possible. Also, 80/20 has a return policy. So do they, but I don't know what it would cost to ship unwanted items back to the EUROPE. :Wow

With that said, I would invest a King's Ransom into setting up a REAL "walk in" 80/20 store here in Bowling Green or Nashville. I think that they are missing out on a lot of potential income, because they do everything by online ordering.

People who like to tinker with things want to walk into a store, grab something off of a shelf, toss it into a cart, and then go home to see what they can do with it. Take LEGOs, or TINKER TOYS, or LINCOLN LOGS, or those ERECTOR SETS for example. How much interest would there be, in selling those components piecemeal ONLINE? It simply would not work. Children are not going to flip through online photos of components to order what they believe they will need to build a rocket ship or a bridge. Those product are sold in a box or a bucket of assorted parts and pieces, and the child dives into the pile to make whatever his or her imagination can create.

A walk-in 80/20 store would do very well. Especially if they were located around the country in larger cities. Guys like me would spend HOURS inside, loading up our carts with the assorted components.

Think about your recent trips to Harbor Freight Tools. You don't walk in because you need a 3/8" combination wrench and a pack of sanding disks. Well, that MIGHT be the reason you walk through the door, but you will most likely end up walking the aisles one by one, as your cart is eventually loaded with fifty different items you never knew you needed.

"Ooooh, I want that ... That looks like it would come in handy ... I could use a few more of these ... I didn't even know they MAKE something like this ... I don't have any of THOSE!" ..." Harbor Freight Tools is DESIGNED to take advantage of that psychological phenomenon. So are other 'big box stores' like Home Depot, Lowe's, and IKEA warehouses, among so many others.

Do you know why online GROCERY stores haven't taken off yet? It is because you want to walk the aisles and physically choose the items. Very few people go to "BigGenericGroceryStore.com" and start clicking ... "One can of corn ... three frozen beef pot pies ... a tube of toothpaste ... a head of lettuce, ... a can of cinnamon ... a 24-pack of toilet paper ... OUT OF STOCK?!?" :lol:

Online shopping has its place in society. That is why AMAZON is so successful. I am a HANDS ON type of guy. I don't like online ordering, unless I am looking for something specific. A large, well stocked 80/20 store near me would be awesome!

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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

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acourtjester wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:10 am Joe "I have to replace the lost ACME screws for them first. I put them ... somewhere. :Sad" when I lose thing I get real quiet and listen, they are somewhere close laughing at me looking for them. :HaHa I cannot tell the number of times I have lost thing, only to find them right under my nose.
I tell friends that I will trip over them while I am walking to the door to receive their replacements from UPS. :HaHa

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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by Joe Jones »

75 TOOTHE PULLEYS.jpg
Yeah! The pipe cutter pulleys arrived today! This weekend will be productive.

Now I am pondering buying one of those benchtop lathes, These pulleys are 19mm bore, and the axle for the rollers is is 3/4" diameter. So do I hunt down a metric 19mm rod, or bore the pulleys out to 3/4"? Or should I turn the rod down to 19mm? The pillow bearings are 3/4" ... :roll: Bringing METRIC into this country really messed things up!

I am still working out the 80/20 puzzle. The first cutter will be mounted to the table. The next generation will be a stand alone unit.

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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by adbuch »

19mm = 0.748", so measure one and see. Sometimes they are a little bit oversize, so they might just fit 3/4" precision shafting as is. Mic your shafting to see what size it actually is. The stuff I use usually runs a few 10th's under nominal size.
If anything, ream them to 0.750". Get a high quality straight flute chucking reamer from MSC. The Union Butterfield shown below is also good quality. I own and use both of these. Just make sure your setup for reaming is such that the reamer is aligned and square to the hole you are reaming. This would be best done at very slow speed (less than 100 rpm) or powered by hand. I normally use a Bridgeport in back gear at low spindle speed, with the pulley clamped flat to the table.

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/63751481
MSC chucking reamer.jpg


https://tjtoolsupply.com/products/45333 ... t_campaign
Union Butterfield chucking reamer.jpg

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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by Joe Jones »

From what I can gather, the 19mm hole is only .002" larger than the 3/4" bar. Am I calculating that correctly?
I could not locate a bushing or sleeve that can make up that gap. Perhaps it won't matter.

Well, off to the shop to test the fit. If the bar is slightly larger, or the pulley bore is slightly smaller, I might be able to get away with it without making any changes to the pulley or bar. From the aspect of a belt rotating a pipe via the pulley, it shouldn't matter (much) if the pulley is a thousandth of an inch off center. :roll:

As my step-dad used to say, "It is better to be lucky, than smart!"

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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by adbuch »

19mm = 0.748", 3/4" = 0.750". A 19mm hole is smaller than a 3/4" hole. So no bushing required. If anything, the pulley bore will need to be reamed to fit the shaft. It has nothing to do with being off center. You could also just take your pulleys to a machine shop - they can probably ream them all to size for about what you would spend on a good quality reamer.
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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by Joe Jones »

I have been looking for an excuse to buy a nice metal lathe. This could be it.

I was thinking the other way, that 3/4” was smaller. I can probably use a brake cylinder hone to gain .002” without an issue. Or I can turn down the 3/4” axle.

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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by Joe Jones »

adbuch wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:02 pm You could also just take your pulleys to a machine shop - they can probably ream them all to size for about what you would spend on a good quality reamer.
I guess I could do that but basically what they charge for a machine shop time for 20 pulleys, I would be nearing the cost of buying a lathe at that point to do it myself. If the pipe cutter becomes popular and I sell several of them, I will probably have to buy another 20 or 40 of these pulleys anyway and at some point The lathe would pay for itself.

You know … in Kentucky, a lathe comes in quite handy to make certain gun accessories too

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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by adbuch »

This is not really a lathe job. So maybe you better get yourself some sort of milling machine. Maybe one of those small bench mill/drills. FYI - it would take probably under 1/2 hour to ream all 20 holes. Very simple and quick job to do. Once the reamer is put into a collet in the spindle, the pulley would basically lay flat on the mill table and held by hand so it can "float" to keep the reamer centered on the hole. I can't see a machine shop charging for more than 1 hour. Even at $100/hr, much cheaper than buying a lathe. A halfway decent small/medium size lathe will run into the thousands of dollars.
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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by Joe Jones »

The flanges on the pulleys also need to be turned down a bit to a max of 2.95” each. The cylinder will roll over the belt with a smidge of clearance so the flanges are too tall from the manufacturer.

I could put them into my drill press and just take the flanges down with Emory cloth but I wanted a cleaner and more uniform solution. Northern Tool has a nice lathe for about $2K that I may just order. 300lb. and FREE DELIVERY!

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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by SegoMan DeSigns »

acourtjester wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:10 am Joe "I have to replace the lost ACME screws for them first. I put them ... somewhere. :Sad" when I lose thing I get real quiet and listen, they are somewhere close laughing at me looking for them. :HaHa I cannot tell the number of times I have lost thing, only to find them right under my nose.
I found a solution to that dilemma, forgot about that item and immediately start looking for the last item you could not find and you will trip over the first item :HaHa
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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by acourtjester »

Joe here is a tool you can make for the lathe to hold the pulleys to face them off. I made a slightly different type by drilling out the holder for a pipe tap. I then threaded the holder with the pipe tap which is tapered before slitting the holder. You tighten the pipe plug in for the expansion of the holder. You chuck the holder in the lathe and mount the pulley for turning.
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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by Joe Jones »

I am just going to grab the hub and turn the flanges down, and then turn the bore to a smidge over 3/4"

I just added this to my shop today.

Joe
LATHE.jpg
They took $20.00 off of the price, and gave me 10% on the whole purchase if I opened a HFT credit card account.

Like I need ANOTHER credit card! :lol:

Joe
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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by adbuch »

Here are some simple lathe arbors that I have made in the past.
20211003_213134_resized.jpg
20211003_213141_resized.jpg
20211003_213232_resized.jpg

The shaft diameter is turned down to fit the ID of the pulley to be mounted to the arbor, and the distance marked "A" below is slightly less than the width of the pulley hub. The end of the arbor is drilled and tapped and a bolt/washer used to clamp the pulley to the arbor. This is probably the quickest and simplest method. Turn the arbor shaft OD to allow a sliding fit with the pulley - probably around 0.001" or so clearance. Just enough to allow the pulley to slide on.
20211003_213421_resized.jpg
Another method is to thread the end of the arbor to accept a nut. Again - the width of the step (turned down portion of the shaft) needs to be slightly less than the width of the pulley hub. The nut/washer clamp the pulley to the shaft (arbor). The one pictured has seen plenty of use as part of a bead roller, and is used to mount the beading die to the shaft.
arbor with threads.jpg
arbor with threads and nut.jpg

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Re: New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

Post by Joe Jones »

I have never used a lathe yet, so maybe I just don't know... but wouldn't a shoulder bolt accomplish the same thing, if the machined shoulder was the proper diameter?

Joe
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