Busy???

[SomethingMetal]

Anybody else as busy as I am? Seems like everytime I think I am going to catch up someone always calls to make sure I can't catch my breathe. My regular 40hr a week job is definitely getting in the way!!!! Good problem to have but wife said she feels like a single woman. Gotta keep "Jody" away!

[Marty]

Hey I am here to help with your Jody problem......tell her she is welcome in my shop anytime:))).....this will help you keep her away..........in fact I am busy enough that I am looking for PT help, maybe Jody could help with grinding dross and such......seriously glad to hear you are that busy,are you selling anything tho?

I retired from my career job (sales engineer) 18 months ago and my plasma business started then........i now need PT help to cover plasma cut orders.........but the only rule is one week off every 5 or 6 weeks..........there is RV time, time share time, and the fishing and shooting time.......all in all I am busier now than when I worked for others..........and happier!!

Marty

Anybody else as busy as I am? Seems like everytime I think I am going to catch up someone always calls to make sure I can't catch my breathe. My regular 40hr a week job is definitely getting in the way!!!! Good problem to have but wife said she feels like a single woman. Gotta keep "Jody" away!

[kbenz]

wish I had that problem. lost my ft job in march. been a real struggle to make ends meet

[Marty]

so sorry to hear that man.....Life has a way of throwing curves........i have had my share of ups and downs......the only thing constant is change......so hopefully your situation will improve soon.....

[elvenhome21]

I lost my job last tuesday also and Im still struggling to get orders. I doubt ill be able to make it past my 6 months of unemployment on just the plasma side alone to make ends meet.

[Largemouthlou]

Just things I have observed from my failure at the biz..

SELL> SELL> SELL, sell yourself everywhere you go, have pictures ready, have a book with printed pictures of some of the dxf files for different artsy stuff. If you do a show, put in the money to have one of most things you do..

I tried for a yr, used my savings, lost my house (or will be) Had work, but it was one of these and one of those, no real production. Then some think that pushing the button is easy work and your prices should be cheap.. Give a price and get back the responce of "my guy can do that on a manual mill for the same money!! Well let him do it then, it will be taking him away from other higher paying shop projects he could be doing!!!!!!!!

Sorry for the rant, I had to go back to construction after my biz failed and back to running projects 60 hrs a week and hating every miniute of it, but it pays better.

And there is a lot to be said for investing the money and buying a quality turn key unit if you have the bank roll!!! It takes one big learning curve out of the picture and has you cutting a lot faster so you can sell!!

[SomethingMetal]

Sorry to hear of every ones misfortune stated above. If there is one thing I have learned from having my small business it is this "there is no time clock". This means no matter where I am or what I am doing i'm never "off" work. I try not to conduct any business on Sunday but that isn't always the case. Quality, Quality, Quality is another key ingredient. I have been very fortunate with my small business and I hope I can continue to grow and improve on what I have done thus far. I have always been told that you have to think outside the box so when I design or build something I try to go just a little farther to make sure it is unique and different from the last piece.

[Marty]

Sorry to hear of every ones misfortune stated above. If there is one thing I have learned from having my small business it is this "there is no time clock". This means no matter where I am or what I am doing i'm never "off" work. I try not to conduct any business on Sunday but that isn't always the case. Quality, Quality, Quality is another key ingredient. I have been very fortunate with my small business and I hope I can continue to grow and improve on what I have done thus far. I have always been told that you have to think outside the box so when I design or build something I try to go just a little farther to make sure it is unique and different from the last piece.

DITTO. Quality, in product, and all marketing materials........no exceptions to this rule ever........quality builds return customers and referrals.......be willing to learn the shop techniques that make your product high quality.....know your exact costs of production.......run it like a business, not like a hobby (unless it is a hobby . know what return on investment as a percentage you need to make .......otherwise leave your money in the bank......have a detailed written business plan.......plan months ahead for shows and events.......promote, promote, promote......decide what market niche you want to sell into........know who and where that niche spends money on "extras" like plasma cut art......the old saying is true "if you enjoy what you are doing you will never work a day in your life"........i retired from a very high stress, 50 - 60 hour work week job after several years........this plasma shop "job" that I have created is very challenging and very hard work......but I love it......I also can take time off every 4 or 5 weeks, I just adjust my ship dates accordingly at the beginning of a job........since I am "retired" I am not depending 100% on my plasma cut business, but I do depend 100% on it for challenge and satisfaction......

[steelfx]

Sorry to hear of every ones misfortune stated above. If there is one thing I have learned from having my small business it is this "there is no time clock". This means no matter where I am or what I am doing i'm never "off" work. I try not to conduct any business on Sunday but that isn't always the case. Quality, Quality, Quality is another key ingredient. I have been very fortunate with my small business and I hope I can continue to grow and improve on what I have done thus far. I have always been told that you have to think outside the box so when I design or build something I try to go just a little farther to make sure it is unique and different from the last piece.

DITTO. Quality, in product, and all marketing materials........no exceptions to this rule ever........quality builds return customers and referrals.......be willing to learn the shop techniques that make your product high quality.....know your exact costs of production.......run it like a business, not like a hobby (unless it is a hobby . know what return on investment as a percentage you need to make .......otherwise leave your money in the bank......have a detailed written business plan.......plan months ahead for shows and events.......promote, promote, promote......decide what market niche you want to sell into........know who and where that niche spends money on "extras" like plasma cut art......the old saying is true "if you enjoy what you are doing you will never work a day in your life"........i retired from a very high stress, 50 - 60 hour work week job after several years........this plasma shop "job" that I have created is very challenging and very hard work......but I love it......I also can take time off every 4 or 5 weeks, I just adjust my ship dates accordingly at the beginning of a job........since I am "retired" I am not depending 100% on my plasma cut business, but I do depend 100% on it for challenge and satisfaction......

Very well said, Marty! I couldn't agree more with your "take" on the subject. And, ditto to 'Something Metal's' post above. I hate to hear of anyone having to walk away from plasma-cutting or any other hobby or business that they love, but it happens. I've been there.

thanks,

Bill

[kbenz]

If I'm not working 7 days I'm looking for work. Emailing, sending flyers, personal visits, craigslist, tried ebay with no luck at all. seems like everyone already has a plasma guy, welder guy, fab guy etc....I have a portable rig. problem is so do a lot of others in this area. and they are willing to work for next to nothing. I've gotten in with a couple contractors doin handrails. they love my work and my price. they just don't get a lot of it.

I think another problem is I have done this for years on the side and lost several jobs due to my full time job. I wonder how many avoid me now because of that?

sorry for being a whiny little b**** just frustrated

[Marty]

If I'm not working 7 days I'm looking for work. Emailing, sending flyers, personal visits, craigslist, tried ebay with no luck at all. seems like everyone already has a plasma guy, welder guy, fab guy etc....I have a portable rig. problem is so do a lot of others in this area. and they are willing to work for next to nothing. I've gotten in with a couple contractors doin handrails. they love my work and my price. they just don't get a lot of it.

I think another problem is I have done this for years on the side and lost several jobs due to my full time job. I wonder how many avoid me now because of that?

sorry for being a whiny little b**** just frustrated

Hi kbenz

just curious about having "lost several jobs due to my full time job" ...............if you have the job SOLD and committed with a deposit, but do not have the time to actually produce the order, why not get the order or (as my ex boss used to say GTHFO, you translate that ! ) then sub the actual work to one of your "many competitors" who did not get the order?.....might cost you 10% but gains you a customer..........if you think folks are avoiding you because of your full time job.....I just have to know....do they actually say..."well if it was not for your full time job, we would give you the order: ?? Look up the word "differentiation".......we all have competition......every market area has competition.........the winners learn to tell prospective customer WHY they different and HOW they are different............offer them something they CANNOT get anywhere else but from you....this is where "value added" keywords become valuable in a conversation with a customer......"I use translucent dyes and beautiful patinas from a special and unique source from a small town in the western united states".......(Steel FX of course)......or "I use high end automotive clear coats sealer , (PPG) the same as used on very expensive autos"......because of it's high gloss and smoothness, my clearcoat resists dust for interior art and resists the elements for outside art".........hey it ALL in the presentation.......you have to create value in the customers mind, or they will not buy from you........selling on price alone is the shortest route to failure

I have worked very hard my entire career, years in technical sales and service, and now my plasma art business, to avoid selling on price, I learned early on that is a losers game


Rant over!:)

Marty

[kbenz]

That is all water under the bridge now........I lost my full time job in March. trying to make my part time job full time now

[beefy]

I have worked very hard my entire career, years in technical sales and service, and now my plasma art business, to avoid selling on price, I learned early on that is a losers game

Marty

I've listened intently to that Marty. I've learned that once you give something cheap to a customer they will hate you if you ever take it away. In my excavation business my Russian landscapers asked me to give a fixed price on THEIR job over which I have no control. I only know what they told me verbally. I gave a fixed price but had a bad feeling in my gut about it. I bust my balls for 7 days and earned less than I have ever done for the amount of work I did. They were chaotic, disorganised, unknowledgable and I paid the price. I thought afterwards I'll never do that again.

They call me to look at another job, but this time much more complicated and too many unknowns. I told them I won't give a fixed price, just a reduced hourly rate seeing as the job may last a week. The guy goes nuts, starts shouting and calling me a complainer, so I said I have to go. After that he would not return any of my calls regarding $850 he still owes me. I ended up driving out to a previous worksite to get the number of the builder they were working for and luckilly he was good enough to call the prick. That got his attention and he finally emailed me with more angry words which I returned fourfold. Hoping to get my cheque next week or the war heats up.

All because I gave him something cheap then wouldn't do it again. In this case being cheap lost me the customer for good. I've worked on and off for these guys for several years before this.

I also think those that want things cheap also want more for the cheap price. Got to find customers who appreciate the quality you deliver and are happy paying a bit extra for it.

Keith.

[Marty]

Hey Beefy
That scenario with the landscapers, haven't we all been in that boat at one time or another......very frustrating.....sometimes we negotiate a price on "hope" that the job will go smoothly, and "somehow," we will actually make a fair profit.......but when we write checks to pay for fuel and materials etc used to complete a job.....hindsight tends to become 20/20 vision all of a sudden. ....like you said, the worst part may be that relationship is now strained.....walking away from a questionably priced offer for work can be filled with self doubt and wondering if you made the right decision.....but it sure as heck beats writing job expense checks that only bought you the pleasure of spending money in order to lose money.....better to walk away, as you did on the second encounter with them.....maybe you could tell them if they do not pay you the money owed, you will go and remove all the backfill dirt and leave holes in the ground:):)

Lately I have been offering my art pieces with 3 prices........allows me to offer a price range......base price designed and cut but "unsanded and un painted" OPTION A add X$$ for grind,sand and prime then OPTION B coat with paint or patina plus final clearcoat If they want cheap, they get cheap and can finish the work themselves.......almost no one buys that base option though......almost always they want the turnkey job, all finished and nice..........the pricing structure serves the purpose though of justifying all the work involved....they get an image in their head of buying a grinder, paint and clearcoat, then trying to make it look good on their first ever attempt at finishing metal art,

When those landscapers offer a fixed price, maybe say that is fine, but I thought you wanted a complete job with backfilling, hauling or whatever comes after the initial dig....takeaway part of the job scope?

Have a good weekend Beefy

Marty

[beefy]

Ha ha, you mirrored my thoughts Marty. Thanks for your input.

I have felt on several occasions that my relationship would end with those guys. One is a very nice guy and good at the nitty gritty of the construction side of things, careful and methodical. The other is the "business" guy, who does most of the talking, arranging, etc. He rushes, is chaotic, disorganised, talks without letting you get a word in, etc, etc. As a result he would tell me to do one thing, the other would tell me to do something else, then next thing the two of them are arguing (again) quite loud at times. I feel sorry for the good guy, he gets stressed a lot by the prick. Worst thing is I don't have his phone number and I think he would be furious if he new what his partner was doing to me.

That particular job was a retaining wall so they want to run all aspects of the job, monitoring the dig as it progresses. They have their bin guy who is actually quite cheap, but he was also very angry because "Mr Talker" mislead him with his description of the job. In my industry of tight access excavation, it can get very complicated - no room to stockpile excavated dirt, or materials that need to be brought in so the dig, the construction, the backfilling, etc are often all being done at the same time, so to speak. Difficult to break the job down into individual bits that I could give fixed prices on. So they need a machine there for the duration of the job, but their stuffups, lack of foresight, delays in deliveries, etc, etc, etc become my loss when giving a fixed price.

Have you ever thought about being a consultant for other businesses when it comes to the sales side of things, or are you sick of the whole scene having worked so hard and so long in it, and prefer the plasma game full time. I bet you would get blamed in any case when things don't work out for a client. Some business models are just crap by nature, no matter how good the sales tactics

Keith.

[Marty]

I am my own consultant, I do not consult for anyone but me...just applying my past corporate life strategies to my little business...the problem with being my own consultant is that when things do not go right.....I have to kick my own ass....like the last time there was a quality issue on the shop floor....I summoned myself ( as Production Manager) to the office of the CEO (myself also)...the CEO made it very clear to the Production Manager that he was not happy and wanted a written report on why the problem was happening, exactly what steps needed to be taken to correct it, and and budget estimates to make the necessary shop changes...he got that report in 24 hours...I hope that doesnt happen again soon...that was rough....then I had to go to the CFO (myself again) and request funding......the CFO said the money was going to have to come from retained earnings, and sent me to the Finance Department (me) to discuss the details....meanwhile the Marketing Department (me) was requesting money for booth rental fees for some cool Hot Rod Shows coming up this summer.....in the meantime the Construction Manager (me) had to take the shop down for 10 days to build the paint booth upgrade the CEO had authorized....all the while, the Sales Department (me) was upset that the shop orders were behind due to construction....and the Purchasing Department was plagued and upset with vendor back orders for the construction materials and parts that had been ordered..............it is tough and I think I am going to talk to Human Resources (me) about some time off for fishing and shooting!!
Marty

[steelfx]

Marty & Beefy,

First, Marty...you should consider being a writer/author/blogger/copy-writer or stand-up comic if the plaz biz slows down.

Your way with words brings a smile.

Beefy,

You mentioned one thing that caught my eye: Difficult to break the job down into individual bits that I could give fixed prices on. So they need a machine there for the duration of the job, but their stuffups, lack of foresight, delays in deliveries, etc, etc, etc become my loss when giving a fixed price.

I'll bet you did at least one site-visit before negotiating a bid. Tight-Access is a good niche market, especially where I'm located. Excavating contractors that have mini-ex's w/ breakers are making serious bank. We've got a lot of hard-digs & rock here.

Just a thought: Mobilization costs to & from, T&M rate with a stand-by rate. Here, the stand-by rate would be at least 50% of your hourly rate. Some projects don't deserve a bid...let's call those un-biddable. (not a word) Translation: Money Loser. Too many variables & unknowns.

If the client/owner or person writing the check won't go for T&M...walk away. You don't need the practice & your equipment doesn't need the hrs. If they insist on a lump-sum bid, calc it out & triple it. tell 'em kindly that they can take it or leave it.

I was in excavating & trenching for 29 years. Specialized in breaker work & rock trenching. Nothing big...never wanted to run with the big dogs. A couple of 25-ton excavators & a handful of TLB's, skid-steers & end-dumps.
I finally gave it up when my accountant told me I had 6 guys on the payroll that were making more than me. That, and nearly everyday it felt like i was running a day-care center for adults.

And, I was bamboozled a few times on nasty jobs, even by some of my best customers. I knew better, accepted the work with the lure & promise of change orders & "we'll make it right on the last draw", and it took me months of profitable work to make up the losses. Promises are cheap.

Better quit now, before I start rambling...

Bill

[Marty]

The last time we were In St George, we learned that there are MANY excavation sites for Dinosaur bones and such......talk about close quarters excavation...........and learned that the beautiful high altitude mesas were under sea water at one point......500 miles from the nearest present day coast...........we tramped some trails in Snow Canyon, and totally enjoyed St George.............the Brazilian Bar B Que restaurant in town is the best ever...wish they would sell franchises..........went to an outdoor (mittens and ski hats and coffee thermos ) Halloween play at Tuacahn Ampitheatre........live animals and crazy stage effects.... Utah is one of the best kept secrets in the west (until just now at least)

Utah has clean air, no graffiti, well managed state government, polite people, even polite young people, they smile and look you in the eye and say please and thank you....not like Los Angeles......English becoming second language here..........I apologize for selling all on Utah......but we have the Rose Bowl Parade every January 1, which draws folk here too...and I say...."Welcome To Califonia, Now Go Home".:)......gotta get some bumper stickers made before January:)...........southern Utah is on our short list for the final stop, after I can no longer lift a half sheet of 14 gauge.....I can still heft a full sheet BTW .....though I am pushing aluminum art more and more:)

Take Care

Marty

[beefy]

Marty,

stop it, stop it, my sides are splitting with laughter

You definitely are in the wrong game, you'd do better in comedy.

Bill,

first thing - I'm very happy for you. I hope what you do now is fantastic and rewarding compared to the excavation. Don't know what the maintenance issues were like for you but I'm always doing something related to either maintenance, fixing, or even making attachments. Right now my excavator arm is off and I've taken the king pin knuckle into the workshop. Made up a basic line boring rig and will be doing that for the very first time. So much time and money spent maintaining while not making money.

Even with attachments the customer doesn't understand the benefit of them because they don't really understand the excavation. Most think the hourly rate is the be all and end all. I made a grab for my excavator and on a recent job I filled a big bin with concrete/rocks in a quarter of the time with bucket alone. I can pick up BIG chunks of vegetation and put it in a high truck. Does anyone notice, do any customers get me back because of this, nope they don't seem to bat an eyelid. I'm OK with technical stuff, fixing things, making things, etc but I think I'm thick as pigshit when it comes to the business dealings side of things. I tried the advertising thing and all I seemed to get was lots of potentials calling me to look at little jobs, and I'd spend up to an hour with them quite often explaining about access, services, etc and all the things they didn't understand were involved. Feel I have to do this to cover my arse, otherwise theres a driveway paver cracked (my fault), an unseen/unknown service broken (my fault), tyremarks on the driveway, etc, etc. I'm really starting to hate it.

No I didn't do a site visit on that job. Mr Prick called me out to a completely different site where he was working just to put the question to me (he could have asked me over the phone !). Because I'd had a good relationship with these guys and jobs are getting a bit scarce, I thought I'll give it a go and rely on what he told me (I know, bad decision). When the job stared a lot of things changed - the bin truck could not get close to the stockpile area due to the sloping wet grass embankment (duh that's hard to figure out), same for rock and sand deliveries, so a lot more travelling distance. The ground was quite rocky. They hadn't confirmed the loader that delivered the blocks was the highly manouverable 3 wheeler type. As a result the blocks could not be put where they had planned and this caused further delays & complications. The job which he said should take a max of 5 days took seven, but that was with me busting my balls working 10 hour days because I'd gave a fixed price. I even made a specialised ripper specifically for that job and that helped to speed things up but still I lost. I was extremely tired for three days after that job.

Now Mr Prick hates me because I won't do that again, what do you do.

Thanks for the business suggestions Bill, I'll keep those tactics in mind for similar situations.

Keith.

[drakus]

We closed up our trucking company in August 2012 and in January started this full time. I am busier now than when I had the trucking company, but this is way more fun than dealing with all the crap with my shippers & so forth. Cut rate cut rates is all they wanted with the same service. I'm not talking a few pennies here and there, I am talking 20 - 40% cuts on all rates.

My wife on her days off comes up here and does my books and helps out with other stuff, and my 16 yo (he has to pay for his vehicle some how) works for me part time in between football practices. He is also going to a tech school during 1st half of school day for welding, he will be ahead of his class lol..

The long hours are well worth it to me, maybe just because I love this stuff and and it seems like I can never get enough of it.

[beefy]

Hi Drakus,

if you've got time could you give us some input on how you run your business. I need inspiration from guys like yourself. Marty for example runs a very professional ship, and seems to treat his game seriously businesslike. And he seems very busy.

Regarding advertising, backyard or commercial premises, etc, low price or quality based, do you get what I mean. Some are busy and some are struggling, so this sort of insight is always good.

Were you doing this part time before dumping your trucking business and so had the wheels turning already.

I know what you mean about customers wanting lower prices, that's exactly what I'm finding now. Problem with trucks, excavators, etc, is maintenance and repair costs don't go down, fuel prices don't go down, etc, etc. I'm at the point of job hunting, just sick of arsehole customers wanting their gain coming from my sacrifice, you just can't get the message across about upkeep costs when you've got machinery.

I too could work long hours in this game, it's not tiring and stressful like I find my excavation business to be. I've just done some in-line boring on my excavator, my first time doing this type of machining. Although quite stressful, worrying I might screw everything up and have a broken digger, I did a very good job and enjoyed it. Huge difference doing something you have a natural inclination towards, time passes so quickly. You watch the clock more because there's not enough time left rather than wanting finish time to arrive.

Cheers,

Keith.