even possible?

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Pyro1983
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even possible?

Post by Pyro1983 » Sat Jan 14, 2023 4:19 pm

Hello. First and foremost, I'm not requesting someone do this for me. I had a buddy ask me if I could make this for him. He found the image online of course and it looks as if its made for print and would require a lot of work to make it usable for plasma cutting. I was messing around with inkscape and I just get confused when trying to fix things. It is of course not a GREAT image to start with, and I'm pretty new to plasma AND inkscape. I do know a lot of the small details would have to go and I'm not positive what he would want done with the writing at the bottom which would be obviously detached. So, for the pros out there that might be reading this, is it possible first of all?...and secondly, what would be your plan of attack? What program to use, complete re draw? trace? I dont really want anyone to just do it for me because I wont learn anything that way...Maybe just some guidance, Thanks

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Re: even possible?

Post by adbuch » Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:46 pm

One approach would be to do an auto trace and then attempt to clean up the result. Another approach would be to do a manual trace of the head/hat/face and then combine this with the rest of the piece - which could be some combination of parts of the auto trace and some drawn from scratch. Do you have any experience manually tracing?

David

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Re: even possible?

Post by Pyro1983 » Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:55 pm

adbuch wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:46 pm
One approach would be to do an auto trace and then attempt to clean up the result. Another approach would be to do a manual trace of the head/hat/face and then combine this with the rest of the piece - which could be some combination of parts of the auto trace and some drawn from scratch. Do you have any experience manually tracing?

David
I do have SOME experience tracing but its minimal....but that's how I'll learn it best..by just doing it. Inkscape just frustrates me when it does something not desired and I have no idea why. Like for instance, When I'm editing the image as an outline, then switch to normal view, some things are completely filled in. I had redrawn all the stars to make them nice, but then when switching to normal view, the whole area turns black. The paths are not open anywhere.

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Re: even possible?

Post by adbuch » Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:02 pm

Inkscape 1.jpg
Inkscape 2.jpg
I combined the individual letters for each group before copying and pasting from the original auto trace result.
Inkscape copies from auto trace.jpg
Inkscape copies from auto trace 1.jpg
You could draw the stars using the Inkscape create stars and polygons tool, faster than manually tracing.
The face,hat, strips, etc. could be manually drawn/traced. Then combine everything together using the original image as a template.
Are you planning to do this as a layered piece or as a single cut?

David

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Re: even possible?

Post by adbuch » Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:06 pm

Pyro1983 wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:55 pm
adbuch wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:46 pm
One approach would be to do an auto trace and then attempt to clean up the result. Another approach would be to do a manual trace of the head/hat/face and then combine this with the rest of the piece - which could be some combination of parts of the auto trace and some drawn from scratch. Do you have any experience manually tracing?

David
I do have SOME experience tracing but its minimal....but that's how I'll learn it best..by just doing it. Inkscape just frustrates me when it does something not desired and I have no idea why. Like for instance, When I'm editing the image as an outline, then switch to normal view, some things are completely filled in. I had redrawn all the stars to make them nice, but then when switching to normal view, the whole area turns black. The paths are not open anywhere.
Post the result of you progress here as svg and I will have a look. The one you are talking about where you drew the stars and then everything turned black when you switched from outline to normal view.

David

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Re: even possible?

Post by adbuch » Sat Jan 14, 2023 9:08 pm

Inkscape copies from auto trace 1.jpg
Inkscape copies from auto trace 2.jpg
Inkscape copies from auto trace 3.jpg
Inkscape copies from auto trace 4.jpg
Inkscape copies from auto trace 5.jpg
Inkscape copies from auto trace 6.jpg
At this point you would be ready to think about doing the final "assembly". The approach taken here will depend on if you are doing a layered piece assembled from individual pieces, or if you plan to cut the whole thing into a single layer.

David

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Re: even possible?

Post by adbuch » Sat Jan 14, 2023 9:14 pm

You would also want to stencil your letters to keep the centers of the A, O, P, etc. from falling out when cut. Another option would be to create the text from scratch using the appropriate font, then fit to a curved path to achieve the equivalent of the auto trace lettering, but with cleaner letters. Same for the script font, outer circle, etc. Using the parts from the auto trace will make it easier to do for you, I expect, and would probably look just fine when cut - depending on your expectations.

There are quite a few details to doing all of this, and no one learns it all "over night". Just keep practicing and perhaps watch some videos which demonstrate the particular techniques you need to use for this specific project.

David
Inkscape copies from auto trace 7.jpg
Inkscape copies from auto trace 8.jpg
Inkscape 1.jpg
Inkscape 2.jpg

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Last edited by adbuch on Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: even possible?

Post by adbuch » Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:00 am

Pyro1983 wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:55 pm


Like for instance, When I'm editing the image as an outline, then switch to normal view, some things are completely filled in. I had redrawn all the stars to make them nice, but then when switching to normal view, the whole area turns black. The paths are not open anywhere.
When this happens, you can raise or lower individual selections to the top or bottom of the stack. The reason you couldn't see your stars was most likely because they were underneath the black portion. If you select your stars, then click on the button "Raise selection to top (home)" then you should see your stars on top of the black portion of the drawing. Or send the black portion to the bottom of the stack.

Try this example to see how it works.

David
step 1.jpg
step 2.jpg
step 3.jpg
step 4.jpg

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Last edited by adbuch on Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: even possible?

Post by adbuch » Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:10 am

Here are some details about Inkscape stacking you may find useful.
David
Inkscape Stack Manipulation.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzVK6u73Ff4&t=1s
Inkscape Stacking video.jpg

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Re: even possible?

Post by Pyro1983 » Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:22 pm

Dang....do you make any youtube tutorial videos yourself? I think you should!! Thankyou for all the information you've already provided. Im hoping to get some time here tonight to tinker with it again. I'd like to do it as one layer al least for now. I'll have to talk to my buddy and see what he has in mind for the font at the bottom..

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Re: even possible?

Post by Pyro1983 » Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:34 pm

adbuch wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:06 pm
Pyro1983 wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:55 pm
adbuch wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:46 pm
One approach would be to do an auto trace and then attempt to clean up the result. Another approach would be to do a manual trace of the head/hat/face and then combine this with the rest of the piece - which could be some combination of parts of the auto trace and some drawn from scratch. Do you have any experience manually tracing?

David
I do have SOME experience tracing but its minimal....but that's how I'll learn it best..by just doing it. Inkscape just frustrates me when it does something not desired and I have no idea why. Like for instance, When I'm editing the image as an outline, then switch to normal view, some things are completely filled in. I had redrawn all the stars to make them nice, but then when switching to normal view, the whole area turns black. The paths are not open anywhere.
Post the result of you progress here as svg and I will have a look. The one you are talking about where you drew the stars and then everything turned black when you switched from outline to normal view.

David
This is the the file I was messing with that I was having issues with the stars disappearing in normal view. I will be likely starting over completely but I'm still using this to tinker and figure things out within inkscape.

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Re: even possible?

Post by adbuch » Mon Jan 16, 2023 12:10 am

Pyro1983 wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:22 pm
Dang....do you make any youtube tutorial videos yourself? I think you should!! Thankyou for all the information you've already provided. Im hoping to get some time here tonight to tinker with it again. I'd like to do it as one layer al least for now. I'll have to talk to my buddy and see what he has in mind for the font at the bottom..
I don't have any youtube videos pertaining to Inkscape, but there are plenty of great resources available. One layer will be more difficult than a layered piece, so I would consider doing the layered one (2 piece) as your first attempt. That is, if you are planning to do the editing yourself.

Logos by Nick has some great Tutorial Videos- in fact he offers an entire Inkscape video course for a one time fee of $17. I purchased it last year and I think it is well worth the price. He also has many free videos on Youtube as well.

https://logosbynick.com/inkscape/
logos by nick.jpg

Bad Dog Metalworks is another great resource. Here is one he did on manual tracing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBwcL6TDnSM
bad dog.jpg
The Inkscape Manual and Tutorials can also be accessed from within Inkscape.
inkscape manual.jpg

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Re: even possible?

Post by adbuch » Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:04 am

Pyro1983 wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:34 pm
adbuch wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:06 pm
Pyro1983 wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:55 pm


I do have SOME experience tracing but its minimal....but that's how I'll learn it best..by just doing it. Inkscape just frustrates me when it does something not desired and I have no idea why. Like for instance, When I'm editing the image as an outline, then switch to normal view, some things are completely filled in. I had redrawn all the stars to make them nice, but then when switching to normal view, the whole area turns black. The paths are not open anywhere.
Post the result of you progress here as svg and I will have a look. The one you are talking about where you drew the stars and then everything turned black when you switched from outline to normal view.

David
This is the the file I was messing with that I was having issues with the stars disappearing in normal view. I will be likely starting over completely but I'm still using this to tinker and figure things out within inkscape.
I opened your file and it looks pretty good so far. You just have multiple parts assigned the same fill color. If we assign different colors, then this is what it looks like. I also differenced some of the letters like D, A, O, etc. plus the the same with the script letters. Just make sure you send the centers to the top of the stack before doing the difference operation.
jr 1.jpg
jr 1 - 2.jpg

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Re: even possible?

Post by adbuch » Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:27 am

If you cut this without the rectangular border, then here is what you will end up with as drawn.
parts in green will fall out when cut.jpg
If you place a rectangular border around the whole thing, then the lower letters would cut fine (except that they need to be stenciled), but everything inside the circle will fall out as drawn.
everything inside the circle will fall out when cut.jpg
You could add the circle of stars and a few of the other islands to the backer- if doing a layered piece.

This is just one approach to get you thinking. I can think of some more elegant versions, but lets see what you come up with.

David
layered approach.jpg

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Re: even possible?

Post by Pyro1983 » Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:57 pm

adbuch wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:27 am
If you cut this without the rectangular border, then here is what you will end up with as drawn.
parts in green will fall out when cut.jpg

If you place a rectangular border around the whole thing, then the lower letters would cut fine (except that they need to be stenciled), but everything inside the circle will fall out as drawn.
everything inside the circle will fall out when cut.jpg

You could add the circle of stars and a few of the other islands to the backer- if doing a layered piece.

This is just one approach to get you thinking. I can think of some more elegant versions, but lets see what you come up with.

David

layered approach.jpg
What program are you using here? Does it automatically show you the parts that will lot be connected when cut or did you select them manually to show me? I'm assuming inkscape doesnt have that feature?

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Re: even possible?

Post by adbuch » Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:41 pm

I am using Design Edge for those screen shots. Yes - it will automatically show which parts will be cut when you create cut paths. Inkscape does not have that feature.
David

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Re: even possible?

Post by adbuch » Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:37 am

But - you can do something similar with Inkscape. Just assign contrasting colors as shown below. The red is the metal, and everything in white will fall out when cut. So the circle of stars would fall out.
David
red is metal.jpg
attached 1.jpg
attached 2.jpg
attached 3.jpg

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Re: even possible?

Post by adbuch » Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:45 pm

Pyro1983 wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:57 pm
adbuch wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:27 am
If you cut this without the rectangular border, then here is what you will end up with as drawn.
parts in green will fall out when cut.jpg

If you place a rectangular border around the whole thing, then the lower letters would cut fine (except that they need to be stenciled), but everything inside the circle will fall out as drawn.
everything inside the circle will fall out when cut.jpg

You could add the circle of stars and a few of the other islands to the backer- if doing a layered piece.

This is just one approach to get you thinking. I can think of some more elegant versions, but lets see what you come up with.

David

layered approach.jpg
What program are you using here? Does it automatically show you the parts that will lot be connected when cut or did you select them manually to show me? I'm assuming inkscape doesnt have that feature?
How are you coming with your project? Haven't heard back from you in awhile. Let us know if you have questions and we will try to help you along.

David

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Re: even possible?

Post by Pyro1983 » Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:49 pm

adbuch wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:45 pm
Pyro1983 wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:57 pm
adbuch wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:27 am
If you cut this without the rectangular border, then here is what you will end up with as drawn.
parts in green will fall out when cut.jpg

If you place a rectangular border around the whole thing, then the lower letters would cut fine (except that they need to be stenciled), but everything inside the circle will fall out as drawn.
everything inside the circle will fall out when cut.jpg

You could add the circle of stars and a few of the other islands to the backer- if doing a layered piece.

This is just one approach to get you thinking. I can think of some more elegant versions, but lets see what you come up with.

David

layered approach.jpg
What program are you using here? Does it automatically show you the parts that will lot be connected when cut or did you select them manually to show me? I'm assuming inkscape doesnt have that feature?
How are you coming with your project? Haven't heard back from you in awhile. Let us know if you have questions and we will try to help you along.

David
I haven't actually worked on it much since. I purchased the inkscape class from logosbynick and have been watching a few each evening. Hoping to have a better understanding of it when Im done.

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Re: even possible?

Post by Pyro1983 » Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:45 pm

I was just fiddling with a super simple design for valentines day, and guess what!? I frustrated myself. I'll post the svg of where im at. I haven't gotten to the section in the class where it talks about this but you probably know. As you can see, the letters union-ed ok, but I can't seem to get the letters to union to the outside. Can you explain to me WHY they didnt union when the letters did? or at least whats wrong that they wont union to the outside?

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Re: even possible?

Post by adbuch » Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:38 pm

Pyro1983 wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:45 pm
I was just fiddling with a super simple design for valentines day, and guess what!? I frustrated myself. I'll post the svg of where im at. I haven't gotten to the section in the class where it talks about this but you probably know. As you can see, the letters union-ed ok, but I can't seem to get the letters to union to the outside. Can you explain to me WHY they didnt union when the letters did? or at least whats wrong that they wont union to the outside?
Love Heart 1.jpg
Love Heart 2.jpg
Love Heart 3.jpg
Love Heart 4.jpg
Love Heart 5.jpg
Love Heart 6.jpg
Note: If the inner heart is not at the top of the stack and you attempt to difference with the outer heart, they will both disappear. This is because you are subtracting a larger item from a smaller item. If you don't send the text to the top of the stack before the union then the result will look funny in normal viewing mode
Love Heart 7.jpg
but will still look fine in outline viewing mode.
Love Heart 8.jpg

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Re: even possible?

Post by Pyro1983 » Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:33 pm

adbuch wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:38 pm
Pyro1983 wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:45 pm
I was just fiddling with a super simple design for valentines day, and guess what!? I frustrated myself. I'll post the svg of where im at. I haven't gotten to the section in the class where it talks about this but you probably know. As you can see, the letters union-ed ok, but I can't seem to get the letters to union to the outside. Can you explain to me WHY they didnt union when the letters did? or at least whats wrong that they wont union to the outside?
Love Heart 1.jpgLove Heart 2.jpgLove Heart 3.jpgLove Heart 4.jpgLove Heart 5.jpgLove Heart 6.jpg

Note: If the inner heart is not at the top of the stack and you attempt to difference with the outer heart, they will both disappear. This is because you are subtracting a larger item from a smaller item. If you don't send the text to the top of the stack before the union then the result will look funny in normal viewing mode

Love Heart 7.jpg

but will still look fine in outline viewing mode.

Love Heart 8.jpg
I wish you were my neighbor! YOU probably don't because I'd drive you nuts! lol....I found the section in the class about the "path" options so hopefully that sheds some light on things. I think Layers and "stack" position are kinda confusing me. Not to mention, when doing the "difference operation, nothing visually changes so I wonder to myself if an operation even completed sometimes. (obviously it did because it worked in the end now) Thanks again and I'll continue with my classes.

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Re: even possible?

Post by Pyro1983 » Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:45 pm

One last quick question for now...is there a quick , easy way to dimension something in a drawing? For example, on this design, if I make it roughly 5" wide and want to put a 1/4" diameter hole (or whatever size i choose) at the top to hang it, whats the easiest way to make a 1/4" circle or ANY specific sized shape for that matter?

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Re: even possible?

Post by adbuch » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:42 am

Pyro1983 wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:33 pm


I wish you were my neighbor! YOU probably don't because I'd drive you nuts! lol....I found the section in the class about the "path" options so hopefully that sheds some light on things. I think Layers and "stack" position are kinda confusing me. Not to mention, when doing the "difference operation, nothing visually changes so I wonder to myself if an operation even completed sometimes. (obviously it did because it worked in the end now) Thanks again and I'll continue with my classes.
For what I do with Inkscape I only work on the default layer. On any given layer, items may be stacked on top of one another.

By default, objects are stacked in the order they are created. So first object created is on the bottom, second object created on top of the first, third on top of the second, etc.
stack order.jpg
stack order 1.jpg
stack order 2.jpg
stack order 3.jpg
stack order 4.jpg
stack order 5.jpg
stack order 6.jpg

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Re: even possible?

Post by adbuch » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:58 am

stroke colors.jpg
stroke colors 1.jpg
stroke colors 2.jpg
stroke colors 3.jpg
stroke colors 4.jpg
stroke colors 5.jpg

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