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Pricing a very large order

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plasmanewbie
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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by plasmanewbie » Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:33 am

Ya the nastiness got out of control on this one which is disappointing for this site. Thanks for your cost breakdown cstroke, it's interesting to see how others price jobs. I wouldn't take this job on myself, not set up for something that big but if I did I would cut them on the table as well unless the hole quality was unacceptable.

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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by SegoMan DeSigns » Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:19 pm

cstroke,

Thank You for the informative real world experience cost breakdown that will help the OP with his bidding process. The purpose behind this forum is information sharing to help people solve their problems, not repetitive erroneous posts to boost ones gold star count.

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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by Joe Jones » Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:14 pm

cstroke wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:23 am

Here's how I would price it and do it after looking at it.
51 hours ... 19 tiles per hour... Okay. You must be younger, with a good back! I am guessing it will take a lot longer.

The OP does not have a forklift, or at leasst he did not indicate hat he has one. He has already stated that simply handling the material presents a challenge, and if there is no room in his shop for an ironworker with a 15 sq. ft. footprint, there is certainly no room in his shop to move full plates around with a forklift. I also figured in the time it will take to go get the material and to deliver the finished product to the customer, along with fuel costs, etc. Add in a truck or trailer than can transport ten tons of steel. He did not indicate that he had any such vehicle. Will he rent one? Buy one? Borrow one?

So tell me ... if YOU had a small shop where you are mostly making G-Jobs (people walk in and ask you to make something for their lawnmower, or tractor, or some widget, etc.) and you are a one-man shop, and you have no forklift, and a job of this size walks through your door ... do you do the job with your CNC plasma table and the tools you already have, in AUGUST, in England, in a sweltering hot shop, using your back to lift these 1,000 20 lb. plates off of a plasma table, or do you seize the opportunity to drop a new hydraulic ironworker into your shop and do the job with the doors closed, and the AC on, KNOWING that this one job will PAY for the ironworker?

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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by Joe Jones » Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:20 pm

plasmanewbie wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:33 am
Ya the nastiness got out of control on this one which is disappointing for this site.
That tends to happen when one puts words into the mouth of another. I have never added someone to the IGNORE list, but there is always a first time and he earned it. :Yay

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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by cstroke » Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:56 pm

I am a one man shop.
I would not do this job if I did not have a forklift.
If the material was not going to be brought to me I would add that cost in as well.
Here's my way of thinking and I might be wrong.
This job is a good job to get and here's why.
Even if you miss the bid a bit and are low it doesn't matter, it's still money coming in and you will still make money. You might not make the money you want but you still make money.
I could put this plate on my table charge $65/hr and still make money. I'm doing other stuff while this machine is cutting.
Now if you are too busy and this is taking away from other stuff, then you are losing money if you miss the bid..
When my machine is cutting I'm deburring another project or welding other jobs in my shop.. It is basically like having a 2nd billable guy in my shop.
6’x12’ Dynatorch with a powermax 85
10’ Wysong brake
5’x5/16’ wysong rolls
3.8’x10’ Pearson shear
65 TonEdwards ironworks
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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by Joe Jones » Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:28 pm

In 2023, if we still HAVE a country, I am hoping to add a 3D printer and scanner to my shop, as well as an ironworker. I am split between the EDWARDS models, and the SCOTCHMAN models, both in the 55 to 60 TON range. I like the EDWARDS design, because it provides a power take off. this means you can buy the tube roller and other accessories, and not pay for the power unit again. you just plug in the hydraulic lines and you have another machine. I am also strongly fond of Made in 'Merica!

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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by cstroke » Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:39 pm

I went with the Edwards after having used scotchman in the past. I liked some of the thought processes the Edwards had plus the price was much better.
Keep this in mind, the Edwards is not as good of a machine as the Scotchman.. I'm not saying I wouldn't have still bought the Edwards, I'm saying you are getting what you are paying for.
I need to update my list, I bought a laser engraver last year, sort of a neat toy to add to the stuff we already do.
6’x12’ Dynatorch with a powermax 85
10’ Wysong brake
5’x5/16’ wysong rolls
3.8’x10’ Pearson shear
65 TonEdwards ironworks
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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by Joe Jones » Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:18 pm

cstroke wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:39 pm
the Edwards is not as good of a machine as the Scotchman.
What leads you to this conclusion? I saw both of them at FabTech, and I could not decide which one to buy, so I didn't purchase either of them.

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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by cstroke » Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:21 pm

I've used both of them, Edwards needs adjusted with minimal use, Scotchman was used hard put away wet and nothing was ever done to it.
Edwards was 10 years newer at time. Also Edwards was 65 ton and scotchman was probably 100 ton
6’x12’ Dynatorch with a powermax 85
10’ Wysong brake
5’x5/16’ wysong rolls
3.8’x10’ Pearson shear
65 TonEdwards ironworks
Misc welding machines

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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by Joe Jones » Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:39 pm

The AUX power port aside, my preference is the Scotchman 5014-ET with the three punch turret.

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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by Jason@bc » Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:15 pm

I have had a 4014 Scotchman for over 12 years now, only problem is it's not big enough anymore and it's a single station. It's been used a ton, very nice machine but when I priced out a bigger one for my shop I almost fell over. After some research and talking to fellow fabricators I decided on a Masteel brand, 66 ton with double station, touch and cut feature, and everything else my Scotchman has. I know 15K sounds way too cheap for such a machine but I talked with guys who have their 100 ton model, and their shears and press brakes, and they say they'd buy again, so I guess we'll see. I'm planning to have this new toy picked up sometime next week.

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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by Joe Jones » Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:52 pm

Their masteel site will not let me send them an inquiry.

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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by Jason@bc » Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:21 pm

This is the link I use Joe, it lets you pick the machine you want and gets you a quote on it.



http://www.masteels.com/

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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by Joe Jones » Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:30 pm

Jason@bc wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:21 pm
This is the link I use Joe, it lets you pick the machine you want and gets you a quote on it.

http://www.masteels.com/
Yep. I have tried several times. I even used a different browser. Same results. Maybe they do not ship their machines to America?

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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by Jason@bc » Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:44 pm

I see... don't know why it would do that.

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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by Joe Jones » Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:47 pm

Jason@bc wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:44 pm
I see... don't know why it would do that.
They are a UK company anyway. The weight of the machine would make it ridiculously expensive to ship one over here. I guess I will stick with a goal of adding the Scotchman to my shop in 2023.

Joe

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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by adbuch » Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:51 pm

The link works fine for me. And I don't have a problem with country of origin, as long as the quality is there.
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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by Joe Jones » Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:40 am

Maybe the gu'mint is out to get me :lol:

I cannot call these people either. 866-774-7628 The call is IMMEDIATELY disconnected. Yes, I dialed the correct number SEVERAL TIMES.

I called and got through ONCE. A recording came on ... "Thank you for calling Prismatic Powders ... yadda yadda ... We have a special offer for people over 50 .. Press 1 ..." I FIGURED that they were going to offer me a discount on powder or something. So I pressed "1"

A woman came onto the line, and immediately started an aggressive push to get me to sign up for a clone of "Life Alert", the portable push button "Help! I've fallen and I can't get up!" people. I told her that I was not interested, as I had bought that service for my uncle before putting him into a nursing home. She disconnected the call immediately. I called back, and CLICK! I CANNOT call this company now! The toll-free number simply WILL NOT CONNECT! WTF?!?

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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by Jason@bc » Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:57 am

I don't know what to tell you Joe, but here is a cell phone number of the guy I dealt with in Edmonton, Alberta.

780-405-7388

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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by Joe Jones » Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:05 pm

Jason@bc wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:57 am
I don't know what to tell you Joe, but here is a cell phone number of the guy I dealt with in Edmonton, Alberta.

780-405-7388
Thank you. I am pretty much settled on either the Edwards or the Scotchman. Made in 'Merica!

Joe


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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by adbuch » Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:34 am

Please show us some photos of your new Edwards or Scotchman once you have it installed into your shop. It would be nice to know you are serious and not just kidding around like you usually do.

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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by Joe Jones » Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:15 am

adbuch wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:34 am
Please show us some photos of your new Edwards or Scotchman once you have it installed into your shop. It would be nice to know you are serious and not just kidding around like you usually do.
I never "just kid around." I IMAGINE the possibilities, I consider my options, I share my thoughts, I look for feedback, I weigh the costs and benefits of every decision, I deal with my responsibilities as priorities change, I manage my limited finances, I handle emergencies, I help family and friends through difficult times, I bend with the changes, I keep my options OPEN, I monitor the state of the country and the government, I watch the rise and fall of trends, I assess my physical health and abilities, I forgive people who have stabbed me in the back, I try new things although I often FAIL, I donate my time and my energy to people who may benefit from my efforts, and occasionally ...I choose one of the possibilities, and ACT upon it. Rest assured, I never "just kid around."

Joe

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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by tnbndr » Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:16 pm


Thank you. I am pretty much settled on either the Edwards or the Scotchman. Made in 'Merica!

Joe
Not as robust but MetalPro is made in the USA also. In fact so close to me that I had to buy one years ago. Does what i need it to.
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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by Joe Jones » Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:25 pm

I will look at them. Thanks!

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Re: Pricing a very large order

Post by adbuch » Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:15 am

That's what I thought. So I won't hold my breath on this one.

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