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What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Information on plasma cutting nozzles, electrodes, and other consumables.
large_time
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What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby large_time » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:37 pm

Clearly these are knock offs, funny that the picture is a legit Hypertherm box....

So, has anyone tried these? I see they are really only a few bucks cheaper.... I dont mind throwing a couple bucks to anyone who keeps a guy like Jim Colt employed! Ha Ha!

Curiosity has me wondering....

I dont need to be lectured of buying American, I love America, and Love my Hypertherm...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5Pcs-Plasma-Noz ... 20cdd2ff56

Anyone willing to admit they have tried these...?
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Re: What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby Gamelord » Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:35 am

They may be cheaper to buy, but they don't cut nearly as nice and don't last nearly as long...so you end up paying the same in the end as you would for the real thing.....so I would just support the company that supports you.. :)
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Re: What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby large_time » Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:42 am

Gamelord wrote:They may be cheaper to buy, but they don't cut nearly as nice and don't last nearly as long...so you end up paying the same in the end as you would for the real thing.....so I would just support the company that supports you.. :)



Figured, Gotta love the imitations and their limitations!

Team America!
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Re: What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby jimcolt » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:35 am

These are knockoffs from China.....they have infringed patents, copied Hypertherm packaging and logos. They have been tested in Hypertherms labs and do cut....but the consumables have stack up tolerance issues and cause overheating of the torh body (eventual torch failure will be likely). Cut quality is good for the first 15 to 30 cut cycles...then deteriorates rapidly. Hypertherm's "Intellectual Property" legal team has been pursuing this and a couple of other similar gyp parts manufacturers that are marketing on Ebay and Amazon. The postings will eventually get shut down...but then will pop up elsewhere! The Chinese government is actually assisting us with patent and copyright violations in these cases.

The actual consumable cutting cost with a Powermax85 system on 1/2" steel works out to about $.008 per foot of cut. That is 8/10ths of a cent per foot (consumables only). So.....if you can purchase knockoff consumables that are priced at 25% less than the genuine Hypertherm parts, and you take the chance that your torch doesn't get damaged and they last as long (they do not last nearly as long!)...then you will be able to cut at 30% less than 8/10ths of a cent per foot...or roughly 6/10ths of a cent. Is it worth risking? Further, these parts are illegal patent infringements, as well as being packaged in copyright infringing packaging.....and are being produced by workers in sweat shops making in the range of $1.50 to $2.00 per hour.

Generally....if you are buying online and the price is very low....do a little research to determine where the parts are coming from. Hypertherm parts are only sold by authorized dealers and OEM machine builders.....many of which market online and sell at discounted prices...but all of which will identify themselves and the origin of the parts!

Best regards, Jim Colt




large_time wrote:Clearly these are knock offs, funny that the picture is a legit Hypertherm box....

So, has anyone tried these? I see they are really only a few bucks cheaper.... I dont mind throwing a couple bucks to anyone who keeps a guy like Jim Colt employed! Ha Ha!

Curiosity has me wondering....

I dont need to be lectured of buying American, I love America, and Love my Hypertherm...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5Pcs-Plasma-Noz ... 20cdd2ff56

Anyone willing to admit they have tried these...?

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Re: What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby large_time » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:55 am

Good deal, glad to hear they are inferior... confirms my thoughts.

Good luck with the legal system and infrigment... that has to be loads of fun.

Thanks for the reply Jim.
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Re: What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby muzza » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:58 pm

You might be able to help me here please Jim.

I see Harris Welding have an online store offering consumables at about 60% of what I pay here in Australia, I have been looking at ordering some but just wanted to confirm they are genuine Hypertherms. I assume they are as they also offer the cutters, torches etc. and couldn't see a company such as Hypertherm allowing a distributor to sell knock offs.

Thanks, Murrray

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Re: What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby large_time » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:32 pm

muzza wrote:You might be able to help me here please Jim.

I see Harris Welding have an online store offering consumables at about 60% of what I pay here in Australia, I have been looking at ordering some but just wanted to confirm they are genuine Hypertherms. I assume they are as they also offer the cutters, torches etc. and couldn't see a company such as Hypertherm allowing a distributor to sell knock offs.

Thanks, Murrray


That site does have some deals... they also sell on EBay.
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Re: What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby JEd » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:00 pm

muzza wrote:You might be able to help me here please Jim.

I see Harris Welding have an online store offering consumables at about 60% of what I pay here in Australia, I have been looking at ordering some but just wanted to confirm they are genuine Hypertherms. I assume they are as they also offer the cutters, torches etc. and couldn't see a company such as Hypertherm allowing a distributor to sell knock offs.

Thanks, Murrray



I ordered my Hypertherm PM 65 from Harris welding and have since ordered consumables from them. Everything went great on both orders. They and what they sell are legitimate.

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Re: What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby planetxfred » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:24 pm

I have been buying from Harris for a couple years now. Great prices and quick service
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Re: What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby HammerDownJustin » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:48 pm

Exactly what Jim said..they are very inconsistent. I let my girlfriend order for me while I was busy with the Christmas rush and ended up with a set of finecut,45,and 65 tips..burned them for the hell of it. Crazy how one tip would last forever and then the next two were burned up in 15 minutes.. I cut a full 4x8 sheet of cut outs and took two fine cut tips to finish.. before that I cut 8 full sheets on one Hypertherm 65 finecut tip..I dont let her order anymore.
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Re: What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby BTA Plasma » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:12 pm

From what I hear some of the larger names in welding supplies are starting to offer Chinese consumables.

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Re: What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby jimcolt » Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:14 am

None of the "authorized" Hypertherm dealers sell patented or copyright infringing consumables for Hypertherm torches. They would not be dealers for long if they did, and they would also be involved with our IP (intellectual property) team!

Jim Colt Hypertherm

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Re: What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby chasxjs » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:40 pm

I don't know if this is what BTA is talking about, but I ordered some off Amazon that said they were coming form Baker's gas and were genuine Hypertherm. Even showed a picture from Baker's gas. However when the order was filled it was filled by some company called Onlineweld and they were obviously not Genuine Hypertherm.

When I wrote to them requesting a refund they replied ........ "We are very sorry for the misunderstanding, we have received you review and we want to apologize for the problem, we are a serious company offering the best products (alternatives under Hypertherm license) at the best prices."

By the way, I did get my refund.
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Re: What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby SeanP » Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:27 pm

Well I buy from Plasmatec, they are not genuine Hypertherm but they are not Chinese, as far as I can see they perform every bit as well as Hypertherm, probably half price.
http://www.plasmatech.co.uk/page/hypert ... onsumables
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Re: What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby jimcolt » Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:30 pm

Charles,

There are no licenses from Hypertherm that allow any other company to produce our consumables. Bakers gas is an authorized Hypertherm dealer....and to our knowledge does not sell patented parts that infringe on our patents. My guess would be you bought from a site that was trying to cover up their parts. If you have more details feel free to contact me directly at [email protected] . We take our international patents and copyrights very seriously and follow up on all leads in this area.

Jim Colt Hypertherm


chasxjs wrote:I don't know if this is what BTA is talking about, but I ordered some off Amazon that said they were coming form Baker's gas and were genuine Hypertherm. Even showed a picture from Baker's gas. However when the order was filled it was filled by some company called Onlineweld and they were obviously not Genuine Hypertherm.

When I wrote to them requesting a refund they replied ........ "We are very sorry for the misunderstanding, we have received you review and we want to apologize for the problem, we are a serious company offering the best products (alternatives under Hypertherm license) at the best prices."

By the way, I did get my refund.

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Re: What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby jimcolt » Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:41 pm

Plasmatec is a division of the US based American Torch Tip. American torch tip is very careful to not copy Hypertherm technology as they have lost a lot of money on close to a dozen patent infringement violations with Hypertherm over the years. They produce consumables for many of our systems but carefully redesign the parts so that the technology that makes them cut better and last longer is not in place.

A couple of examples....For the Hypertherm HPR (130 through 800 amps) they produce cutting nozzles that are of a single piece design vs the patented "vented" two piece designs designed, engineered and manufactured by Hypertherm. When cutting 1/4" steel with the genuine Hypertherm product you will experience about 3 to 5 miles (up to 25,000 feet of cut) on a single nozzle and electrode....and with the Plasmatec version you will see cut quality deterioration after about 1500 feet of cut. These parts are about 25% lower priced than genuine Hypertherm parts, however the cutting life is a fraction. Save money at purchasing.......cost a lot more on the shop floor!

Jim Colt Hypertherm


SeanP wrote:Well I buy from Plasmatec, they are not genuine Hypertherm but they are not Chinese, as far as I can see they perform every bit as well as Hypertherm, probably half price.
http://www.plasmatech.co.uk/page/hypert ... onsumables

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Re: What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby Brand X » Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:18 pm

How long to you hold the patents ? Some of those must be up by now,, Like what Sean is using for his 45.. Nice to have aftermarket options, for legal copies or even improvements on original designs..

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Re: What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby BTA Plasma » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:02 am

Whomever is importing Chinese consumables needs to stop. We need to quit fleecing good companies especially those that employee owned like Hypertherm.

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Re: What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby jimcolt » Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:40 am

It depends on the type of patent....some are in the 7 year range....some about double that. We have no issues with someone that spends their own research money and makes parts for our torch that use technology that is not the same as ours. It is rare, but has happened! When blatent copies of technology that we developed and paid for are made......we take swift action.

We spend millions annually on developing new technology, and we spend a ton of money protecting that technology from companies that see no problem with making copies. Interestingly...there are manufacturing processes as well as material metallurgy (copper, hafnium, etc.) that are critical to performance as well. It is relatively easy for a company to take some measurements and copy torch parts pretty accurately, however the thermal and chemical bond between the hafnium and copper is critical, the blend of copper on air and oxygen electrodes is critical....those items don't get copied as the processes and tooling are costly and critical......and the manufacturing processes are patented.

There is still a lot of development that will improve plasma cut quality and consumable life. If this did not occur we would still be using non shielded , high frequency start, transformer based plasma cutters. They would cost more than inverters, the consumable life would be about 1/10th, they would weigh 10x as much, and cut quality would be like it was 30 years ago. Progress is good, and maintaining your employees (no layoffs) relies on producing your own products in your own shops.

Jim Colt Hypertherm




Brand X wrote:How long to you hold the patents ? Some of those must be up by now,, Like what Sean is using for his 45.. Nice to have aftermarket options, for legal copies or even improvements on original designs..

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Re: What is up with the China Hypertherm Consumables...?

Postby Brand X » Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:28 pm

A lot the time aftermarket consumables don't match up well.. Mostly in the nozzles/(Tips in my case) Electrodes, and some of the better shield designs. There are exceptions to that rule, but in the top torch designs, and consumables there is no free lunch.. Even in some of the older designs like Trafimet, the factory Italian nozzles are way superior to anything made in China. I have yet to find one China made tip that works as well as a factory one for the Thermal one torch. They have many companies that make them, and none work very well at all..I can tell the cut quality difference when using a aftermarket electrode too. I have a couple laying around, but might just use in a hand torch in a pinch. Only China made nozzle I have used that worked as well as a factory nozzle,electrode was for a Esab PT-31 XT torch. Used on two different machines I owned..Friend has it now, and finds the same thing is true. It's a much simpler design on the nozzle, so it seems to copy well.. (depending who you get them from..)

I would never use a aftermarket nozzle, etc in a real modern design of a torch. I just don't think they can get anywhere close to the quality on any level.


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