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Fine cut nozzle?

Information on plasma cutting nozzles, electrodes, and other consumables.
The Rusty Texan
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Fine cut nozzle?

Post by The Rusty Texan » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:48 pm

I ordered some new consumables last night through a guy online and he was offering a fine cut tip? I am using a hypertherm 65 on 10 gauge material and was wondering if there is a way to get less dross. They were hypertherm brand tips but I was wondering if they actually have a cleaner cut. I cut that 10 gauge at 75 ipm and at 40 amps. The tips are the same price, also I am using a 65amp electrode, should I change that? Nothing extreme on the dross but less would be better.
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I Lean
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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by I Lean » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:00 pm

The cutting charts for my Powermax 45 list 10 gauge at 45A, 140 IPM. I'd say you're cutting way too slow at 75ipm, that's where your dross is coming from.

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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by SomethingMetal » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:08 pm

Cutting way to slow. 45amp consumables and speed er up and you will get great results.
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WSS
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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by WSS » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:52 pm

Try to keep the machine set at the same amps as the nozzle (45amps for a 45 nozzle and so on), you will get the best quality that way. Also try to match the nozzle to the sheet thickness, use the smallest nozzle possible to cut the material, it will be slower but yield better results and probably be quicker due to less labor on clean-up. I use the fine cuts on our 1650 (40amp) on any gauge material under 10ga.

WSS

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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by jimcolt » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:11 pm

The Powermax 65 has FineCut consumables listed in the operators manual. The Fine Cut consumables are designed to produce better cut edge quality on materials thinner than 10 gauge.

Rule of thumb.....for best cut quality with any plasma system.....use the lowest powered (amperage) consumables that are liste in the cut charts for the thickness you are cutting.


Jim Colt Hypertherm

The Rusty Texan wrote:I ordered some new consumables last night through a guy online and he was offering a fine cut tip? I am using a hypertherm 65 on 10 gauge material and was wondering if there is a way to get less dross. They were hypertherm brand tips but I was wondering if they actually have a cleaner cut. I cut that 10 gauge at 75 ipm and at 40 amps. The tips are the same price, also I am using a 65amp electrode, should I change that? Nothing extreme on the dross but less would be better.

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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by The Rusty Texan » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:15 am

Dang! Just bought a bunch of new 65 amp stuff, I will have to get some 45 amp tips. And speeding it up on even the artsy stuff is okay?
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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by jimcolt » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:01 am

The FineCut parts are unshielded and can be used at up to 45 amps....they work well between 30 and 40 amps on materials thinner than 16 ga or so. If your machine can cut at the speeds listed on the cut charts in the manual....you will get best results. Slower speeds will provide a nice cut edge...but some low speed dross.

There also are 45 amp shielded consumables (my favorite) that do a great job from gauge to about 3/8". On materials thinner than about 3/16" the 45 amp shielded consumables work well....but will provide more edge taper as compared to the FineCut parts....as well as a wider kerf width. Why do I like the 45 amp shielded parts? Because they are shielded.....and they have about 3 or 4 times the nozzle life of the non shielded FineCut parts.

I just cut about 30 of these parts out of .250 steel (in the attached pic) for someone a couple of days ago.....I had the 45 amp shielded consumables in the torch that had already cut over 800 parts out of .125" steel. There are no other air plasma systems (other than Hypertherm) that will still cut this nicely after over 800 starts on one set of consumables. These parts required no cleanup....and were cut at the exact settings (speed, pierce height, cut height, amperage) as recommended in the Powermax 85 operators manual.

Jim Colt



The Rusty Texan wrote:Dang! Just bought a bunch of new 65 amp stuff, I will have to get some 45 amp tips. And speeding it up on even the artsy stuff is okay?
.250 cuts 002.jpg
.250 cuts 001.jpg

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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by RobertM » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:53 am

Wow! I need to get to know my consumables a little better.

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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by The Rusty Texan » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:08 am

Prior to reading this I ordered some hypertherm 220941 nozzles, after reading the fine print on the box it looks like they are unshielded. Could you give me the correct hypertherm number for the 45 amp nozzle that you are recommending? Thanks, just trying to fine tune my machine, I know it can be more efficient.
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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by jimcolt » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:10 pm

On the Duramax torch as used for the Powermax65/85 systems the only thing different between shielded and unshielded consumable sets is the 220817 shield. If you look in your manual on the cut chart pages under 45 amp shielded consumables you will see a picture with all of the part numbers.

so....for 45amp shielded :

Shield: 220817
Retaining cap: 220854 or 220953 (for machines with Ohmic plate sensing)
Nozzle: 220941
Electrode: 220842
Swirl Ring: 220857

Jim
The Rusty Texan wrote:Prior to reading this I ordered some hypertherm 220941 nozzles, after reading the fine print on the box it looks like they are unshielded. Could you give me the correct hypertherm number for the 45 amp nozzle that you are recommending? Thanks, just trying to fine tune my machine, I know it can be more efficient.

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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by The Rusty Texan » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:22 pm

I did some cutting today , with the 65 amp nozzle (all I had) on some 10 gauge set at 100ipm and I used a new electrode after an hour of cutting. The project I was doing had 98 pierces and was big , but I thought that was a little fast to burn up that electrode. I have the electrode that you listed and I ordered the 45 amp nozzle that you advised today. My dross did not improve with the speed increase but I am anxious to see how it all comes together with the 45amp nozzle and machine set at 45 as well. I will have to check the other items that you listed, and make sure I have all of it together. All my cutting so far has been 10 gauge, but it has been some detailed stuff with lots of pierces. So far i used 4 nozzles and 4 electrodes after about 6-8 hours cutting.
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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by jimcolt » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:27 am

65 amps on 10 gauge requires a a cut speed of at least 190 inches per minute to start to get rid of dross, and can cut at up to 280 inches per minute with no dross. Faster gets rid of dross with any plasma.

We have lower powered consumables to match the process power to the cut thickness to fine tune your cut quality. The best cuts on 10 gauge with your system will be with using the FineCut consumables at 45 amps and 95 inches per minute. A good cut will also be the rsult of using the 45 amp shielded consumables at 45 amps and 100 inches per minute. You also need to follow the cut height and pierce height specs just as the cut charts in the Hypertherm manual recommends.

Plasma, Laser, Water jet.....all have variable output by using different power levels (Amps, Killowatts, Pressure) and different speeds, as well as different nozzles to control energy density of the processes based on what you are cutting. Hypertherm has already done the experimenting for you....so follow the cut charts as listed in the operators manual....you should be satisfied with the results.

If you used up an electrode after 98 starts with a Hypertherm system....likely something is wrong. Can you forward a closeup picture of the front (plasma arc side) of the electrode that you changed after 98 starts?


Jim Colt

The Rusty Texan wrote:I did some cutting today , with the 65 amp nozzle (all I had) on some 10 gauge set at 100ipm and I used a new electrode after an hour of cutting. The project I was doing had 98 pierces and was big , but I thought that was a little fast to burn up that electrode. I have the electrode that you listed and I ordered the 45 amp nozzle that you advised today. My dross did not improve with the speed increase but I am anxious to see how it all comes together with the 45amp nozzle and machine set at 45 as well. I will have to check the other items that you listed, and make sure I have all of it together. All my cutting so far has been 10 gauge, but it has been some detailed stuff with lots of pierces. So far i used 4 nozzles and 4 electrodes after about 6-8 hours cutting.

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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by WSS » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:29 pm

Just in case, you must have a air gap between the sheet and nozzle/shield when piercing. If the torch is touching the plate when it fires you will eat up a nozzle quick. 10ga will flex some if you are using a touch-off like in mach or a stall sensing type. A buggered electrode might be water in the line. Like Jim mentioned, if you can post a pic.

WSS

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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by The Rusty Texan » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:45 am

I will get that picture as soon as I get home, I should also have those new 45amp nozzles in to try them ( 45amp nozzle, plasma set at 45amps and 100ipm). Water in my line is likely, I have water traps in my lines and a desiccant filter (sharpe). I know I should upgrade with a refrigerated dryer, just havnt done it yet.
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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by The Rusty Texan » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:47 am

I do have my pierce height set at .6 like the manual says and it rides about 1/8-1/4" off the material as it cuts with THC
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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by WSS » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:30 am

Your pierce height is too high (try .100" or .120") cut height should be around .060-.070" I think. I have a 1650 and it calls for .0625"cut and .125"pierce for all but the 100 amp (more) and fine cut (less). Some settings using fine cut call for .010", Ithink it was on stainless. How good is your THC? The further away from the surface the torch is, the more rounded the top edge will be, if it is right on , it will look like a saw cut it, or conversly, like Jim's cut LOL.

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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by The Rusty Texan » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:04 pm

I wrote that down wrong, my pierce height is .06 and .125 is my cutting height . My THC is good, ordered my table from burntables.com
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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by jimcolt » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:14 pm

Pierce height should always be higher than cut height. Follow the specifications in the Hypertherm manual for pierce height and cut height....and you will get good results.

Cutting at .125 height is far too high for a Hypertherm Powermax and will result in severely angled cut edge, warpage, dross, and a wide cut kerf width. .06" cut height will produce the proper results.


Jim Colt


The Rusty Texan wrote:I wrote that down wrong, my pierce height is .06 and .125 is my cutting height . My THC is good, ordered my table from burntables.com

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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by The Rusty Texan » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:36 am

Well yesterday i installed the new 45amp nozzle and electrode, all the correct hypertherm numbers from my manual. I only got 58 minutes of cutting. I did however get a lot less dross by speeding up the machine to 100ipm but i am afraid i need to upgrade my air system with the refrigerated dryer. Cant figure out why i am burning through the consumables so fast.
tip1.jpg
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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by WSS » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:33 pm

To me, that electrode looks like it is hardly broke in. Looks like clean air too. Run that puppy until it spits out the hafnium. Most common ratio is about two nozzles to one electrode. In my case I can get three to one, but that is because of bad pierces nicking the nozzle usually. :oops:

WSS

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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by The Rusty Texan » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:34 pm

Well last night the torch fired up and was only spitting a blue flame, the code came up for consumables, I replaced the nozzle, still would not work right, replaced the nozzle and electrode and it fired right up and continued cutting?
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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by I Lean » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:49 pm

I thought I had fairly clean dry air before I got my refrigerated dryer....after I installed it, my consumable life probably doubled. I'm still impressed with how long everything lasts as long as I do my part correctly. :mrgreen:

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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by jbartley » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:32 pm

WSS wrote:To me, that electrode looks like it is hardly broke in. Looks like clean air too. Run that puppy until it spits out the hafnium. Most common ratio is about two nozzles to one electrode. In my case I can get three to one, but that is because of bad pierces nicking the nozzle usually. :oops:

WSS
I never knew you could use a used electrode with a new tip. I have always been told to swopped out both tip and electrode with each change over. What happens to the cut quality as an electrode wears over time?
Thank you caveman for wheel and fire.

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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by benval76 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:51 pm

I am having some trouble with consumable life as well. I am running a Hyperthem 85 with 65 amp consumables. Cutting 3/8 inch mild steel. I was running at 65 amps, 45 ipm, 126 volts with THC on, pierce height at .150 and cut height at .06. I have only been able to get about 400 to 500 inches of cut before the bevel is to severe to continue. I am running an IR compressor into a refrigerated air dryer. I have checked the physical height of the torch to make sure everything was running correctly. I am confident that my air supply is clean and dry. I have checked and rechecked everything I could think of hoping that I missed something. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I don't really know how much cut I can reasonably expect with this material either.

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Re: Fine cut nozzle?

Post by dsanford55 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:32 am

jimcolt wrote:The FineCut parts are unshielded and can be used at up to 45 amps....they work well between 30 and 40 amps on materials thinner than 16 ga or so. If your machine can cut at the speeds listed on the cut charts in the manual....you will get best results. Slower speeds will provide a nice cut edge...but some low speed dross.

There also are 45 amp shielded consumables (my favorite) that do a great job from gauge to about 3/8". On materials thinner than about 3/16" the 45 amp shielded consumables work well....but will provide more edge taper as compared to the FineCut parts....as well as a wider kerf width. Why do I like the 45 amp shielded parts? Because they are shielded.....and they have about 3 or 4 times the nozzle life of the non shielded FineCut parts.

I just cut about 30 of these parts out of .250 steel (in the attached pic) for someone a couple of days ago.....I had the 45 amp shielded consumables in the torch that had already cut over 800 parts out of .125" steel. There are no other air plasma systems (other than Hypertherm) that will still cut this nicely after over 800 starts on one set of consumables. These parts required no cleanup....and were cut at the exact settings (speed, pierce height, cut height, amperage) as recommended in the Powermax 85 operators manual.

Jim Colt

I've been digging through these posts looking for ways to improve cut quality, what a wealth of info!
ordering some different size nozzles for 1/4" plate....thx for contributing!!!!!

The Rusty Texan wrote:Dang! Just bought a bunch of new 65 amp stuff, I will have to get some 45 amp tips. And speeding it up on even the artsy stuff is okay?
.250 cuts 002.jpg
.250 cuts 001.jpg

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