I Took the Plunge - New Oven

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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by weldguy »

Awesome, thanks for the great powder coat info.
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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by Joe Jones »

Hmmm... I will begin the learning curve shortly. :Sad

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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by SegoMan DeSigns »

Joe Jones wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:29 am Hmmm... I will begin the learning curve shortly. :Sad

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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by Joe Jones »

SegoMan DeSigns wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:39 pm
The brain is like other parts of the body..

Use It Or Loose It :HaHa :HaHa
That explains A LOT!

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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by Joe Jones »

Kimberly SD wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:18 am electric oven controller thats great... i have mine but it releases fumes , dont know motor or what happened to it..

by the way your idea about DECK making outside is awesome. I read the whole and enjoyed ...HUH!
Deck making? Who is that reply directed toward?

Joe

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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by djreiswig »

That would be you.
Joe Jones wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 5:17 pmI have a mountain of church pews I acquired over a year ago. All Red Oak and beautiful wood. Wondering what to do with them. Bird houses? Wall clocks? Urns? A friend called. He wants to build a DECK outside of his home, using the church pews. That is an interesting idea, but I have to research how Red Oak handles long term OUTDOOR exposure. I have only ever seen Red Oak used INDOORS.

So much going on. so little time...

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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by Joe Jones »

djreiswig wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:22 pm That would be you.
Joe Jones wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 5:17 pmI have a mountain of church pews [..]
Ah! THAT deck project! In my next life, I SWEAR am going to have more MEMORY installed!

I posted that on other sites I visit, but I did not realize that I had posted it here.

The wood is still stacked up at the door of the FrankenBarn. Among the MANY things I would like to accomplish this summer, is to convert all of that wood into .... SOMETHING ... that I can eventually sell for a few bucks each. Maybe I can get a jump on some nifty Christmas decorations, and make a couple hundred of them before October-ish ... I guess it is time to start running through Pinterest.com for ideas .... :roll:

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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by Joe Jones »

The DECK is moving forward. Measurements are taken, and the design is being planned to give him the best deck for the lowest price. We have to find that happy medium. I have been strongly advised AGAINST using the Red Oak Church Pews for the deck. Apparently RedOak is more of an indoor artsy-fartsy wood that does not handle outdoor environments well.

So now I am shifting gears with the pews. I want to figure out some irresistible Christmas decoration I can make, and turn the pews into a thousand of them before October, so I can begin to sell them online, and perhaps at a Christmas Craft Faire here or in Nashville.

The oven project is also in the works now. All of the parts are here. The controller is a "KIT" which came as a big box full of electronic parts, wires, connectors, etc. I used to tackle these projects with confidence, but then ... my Heathkit AM radio never worked, so ... :Sad

The frame is being built first. Then we will install the heating elements and wire it all together. Then the insulation, then the air ducts around the outside ...

I am tempted to assemble the individual panels and send them all out to be powder coated, but my friend says I should just shoot them with some High-Temp paint and be done with it. Hmmm...
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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by plasmanewbie »

Oven is looking good Joe. So your thinking of powder coating the interior and exterior of the oven once you have the frame insulated and the outer skins on?
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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by Joe Jones »

Yes. I have to check to see what it would cost, and I have to find someone with an oven large enough. I could leave it as raw steel, but since I am not wrapping it in stainless steel as I originally hoped, I don't want it to become a big, rusty box.

People have warned me AGAINST using galvanized sheet metal... something about the fumes, and death, and such.

I am going to construct the whole frame, and then disassemble it into the six pieces (back sides, door, and two top layers) and either paint them with high-temp paint, or have them powder coated ... probably in Nashville. I think that is the closest place with an oven of that size.

I am thinking of white rather than making a big, black box. It would be easier to see when it needs cleaning, and the interior lights would be more effective, I believe. Your thoughts?

If I could find a source for powder coated sheet metal, I would just but it and then make the skins as needed. I have to contact some people in Nashville to check on my options.

I could wrap the whole thing in white barn tin, with the 9" spaced ribs, but I just don't want it to look like something that hides a still. :lol:

I have a friend in Portland TN who has a HVAC business. He said he could get me thin galvanized material at $46.00 per sheet. I really need to know if this is a REAL problem for powder coat ovens, or if people are just sharing their unfounded fears. Robert could probably give me the best answer on that, since that is what he does (or did?) for a living.

Th door is the next thing to make, and I still have to take a day or two, or three ... to build the controller box from that pile of parts they sent to me. Then I have to set up the air ducts running from the top and down the outside on both sides.

Still a lot to do!

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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by djreiswig »

If you are able to use precoated sheet, why not have the skin coated before you attach it to the frame? Then you wouldn't need to use a coater with a big oven.
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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by Joe Jones »

djreiswig wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 10:44 am If you are able to use precoated sheet, why not have the skin coated before you attach it to the frame? Then you wouldn't need to use a coater with a big oven.
It is just a matter of FINDING pre-coated sheets. Everyone is using "covid" as the excuse for being out of stock on almost anything I seek.

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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by rdj357 »

My big rusty boxes make me just as much money as white or black would. I get that it's personal preference. :-)
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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

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rdj357 wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 10:47 am My big rusty boxes make me just as much money as white or black would. I get that it's personal preference. :-)
Yeah, you are absolutely correct. It is a personal pride thing. I just priced 18 gauge stainless steel for the project. $7,998.00 !!!! :Wow

Looking for other options now....

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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by Joe Jones »

How would aluminum do in an oven? Is the aluminum a deterrent or a benefit over steel? I would imagine that the aluminum would allow more heat to transfer through to the insulation side, but then, hot metal is hot metal. A car hood in the sun is just as hot on the sunny side as on the underside.

I think i am going to have to bite the bullet and just use my 16 gauge cold roll steel sheets, and spray paint them with white high temp paint.. :Sad

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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by SegoMan DeSigns »

Joe,

My small oven project (design stage) in it's previous life was a food dehydrator made of aluminum, my theory on using Al is with it being a good conductor of heat should help keep uniform temps in all of the oven. The rock wool "should" stop the heat once it come's in contact with it. Lowe's seems to have the best price on the rock wool as they sell it at 12 batts vs 8 from Homer.

I tried several local HVAC suppliers on the aluminized metals and got the blank stare followed by the we'll get back with you on that one (phone still has not rang) Click on the following link and go to the bottom right hand corner for their contact info. they may have a dealer / customer in your area you could get some material from.

https://www.alliancesteel.net/aluminized-steel/
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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by djreiswig »

Joe Jones wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 10:47 am
djreiswig wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 10:44 am If you are able to use precoated sheet, why not have the skin coated before you attach it to the frame? Then you wouldn't need to use a coater with a big oven.
It is just a matter of FINDING pre-coated sheets. Everyone is using "covid" as the excuse for being out of stock on almost anything I seek.

Joe



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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by 34by151 »

My oven has 3mm zinc sheets, no issues at all
The powder causes fumes anyway which will be more of an issue than anything from the sheeting
If your worried just route your exhaust outside

My exhaust goes outside not because of the fumes but to get rid of the heat
Im in the tropics so it's hot enough already
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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by Joe Jones »

SegoMan DeSigns wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:29 pm Joe,

My small oven project (design stage) in it's previous life was a food dehydrator made of aluminum, my theory on using Al is with it being a good conductor of heat should help keep uniform temps in all of the oven. The rock wool "should" stop the heat once it come's in contact with it. Lowe's seems to have the best price on the rock wool as they sell it at 12 batts vs 8 from Homer.

I tried several local HVAC suppliers on the aluminized metals and got the blank stare followed by the we'll get back with you on that one (phone still has not rang) Click on the following link and go to the bottom right hand corner for their contact info. they may have a dealer / customer in your area you could get some material from.

https://www.alliancesteel.net/aluminized-steel/
Thanks! I will check out the link.

Joe


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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by Joe Jones »

34by151 wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 1:54 pm My oven has 3mm zinc sheets, no issues at all
The powder causes fumes anyway which will be more of an issue than anything from the sheeting
If your worried just route your exhaust outside

My exhaust goes outside not because of the fumes but to get rid of the heat
Im in the tropics so it's hot enough already
Thanks. Should the exhaust simply be a static open pipe to the outside, or should I incorporate some sort of fan for positive removal of gasses during the cooking process?

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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by Joe Jones »

djreiswig wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 1:06 pm
Buy bare sheet and HAVE them coated before you attach them.
I am going to look into that. Maybe I can wrap the skin for fit, then remove the internal pieces and send them to a powder coater. I really want the interior to be bright white. My eyes are failing me, and so a dark oven interior is not at all appealing to me.

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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by Joe Jones »

I found two powder coating companies in Nashville. Now I just have to make the skins and fit everything, and then strip them off and send them out to be coated. I just don't want this thing to look like it was made at a Boy Scout Summer Camp, or like there is a still inside.

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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

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Joe Jones wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:12 pm Thanks. Should the exhaust simply be a static open pipe to the outside, or should I incorporate some sort of fan for positive removal of gasses during the cooking process?
I have 2 three in pipes for the exhaust

The exhaust serves a few functions;
First it relieves the pressure created by the expanding air
Second it gets rid of the fumes created by the powder going fluid.
Last it allows the air to flow and keep the temp constant over the oven

A fan is not needed for a gas oven as the heat is via forced hot air
For electric you may need a fan to even the temp in the oven

A gas oven needs a bigger vent as there is more pressure
Too much backpressure (too small a vent) can overheat the burner and cause poor combustion
An electric oven really only needs a small vent to let out the fumes and control expansion

As a general rule the vent for a gas oven is at the bottom with hot air entering the opposite side on the bottom and pointing up.
This creates a good air flow.
For electric the vent is at the top and then elements at the bottom. A fan may be needed to circulate air drawing from the top. Often all that is needed is a very small vent at the base to allow air flow upwards. Roughly 1/3rd the diameter of the top exhaust. If you dont have a bottom air inlet you will only exhaust smoke from the powder via air expansion. You need flow though the oven to exhaust the fumes. It does not need to be much and can be controlled via ball valve on the air inlet. The more flow the bigger the elements need to be. The biggest challenge with electric is getting he heat to a stable temp fast followed by and even temp distribution. These issues go way with a burner/blower.
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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

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34by151 wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 4:51 pm I have 2 three in pipes for the exhaust

The exhaust serves a few functions;
First it relieves the pressure created by the expanding air
Second it gets rid of the fumes created by the powder going fluid.
Last it allows the air to flow and keep the temp constant over the oven

A fan is not needed for a gas oven as the heat is via forced hot air
For electric you may need a fan to even the temp in the oven

A gas oven needs a bigger vent as there is more pressure
Too much backpressure (too small a vent) can overheat the burner and cause poor combustion
An electric oven really only needs a small vent to let out the fumes and control expansion

As a general rule the vent for a gas oven is at the bottom with hot air entering the opposite side on the bottom and pointing up.
This creates a good air flow.
For electric the vent is at the top and then elements at the bottom. A fan may be needed to circulate air drawing from the top. Often all that is needed is a very small vent at the base to allow air flow upwards. Roughly 1/3rd the diameter of the top exhaust. If you dont have a bottom air inlet you will only exhaust smoke from the powder via air expansion. You need flow though the oven to exhaust the fumes. It does not need to be much and can be controlled via ball valve on the air inlet. The more flow the bigger the elements need to be. The biggest challenge with electric is getting he heat to a stable temp fast followed by and even temp distribution. These issues go way with a burner/blower.
Thank you. I guess I will set up a 1" diameter pipe to the outside, just for pressure relief. This oven will be electric, with two banks of four 3Kw burners. The bottom will not be completely sealed, so fresh air will probably be sucked in via the rise of the hot air, I suppose. There will be two recirculating fans, one for each side of the oven. They will take in the hot air, and run it down the sides to return to the oven via registers directly below the heating elements. When the oven is divided in half, the four upper elements will provide the heat. When the center shelf is removed, the four lower elements will be used, and the baffles in the air ducts will direct the hot return air to the bottom of the oven.

Joe
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Re: I Took the Plunge - New Oven

Post by 34by151 »

Put a pipe in the top for the vent
The one in the base is to draw in air that replaces the vented air
You can put a ball valve on one or both to regulate/tune the air flow

Without the second pipe you wont get any fumes out
The fumes from the powder cooking can cause lots of surface and adhesion issues

When your into the testing phase you need to work out how even the temps are.
Cut a bunch of 63mm dia disks from 8mm steel.
Suspended them from the top center in a chain with about 100mm spacing
Once he oven was up to temp, open the door and check the temp of each disk
If you get differences you need to work on your air flow
Once you have that stable move the chain to the sides and corners and repeat
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