My Experience with Steel-FX Patina So Far.

[Metriccar]

I seem to have gone from one extreme to the other with Steel-FX patina.
When I first started out, I was using entire bottles to do a small piece that I was quite unsatisfied with.
Now, I'm using a relatively small amount of the bottle to do a small piece that I am not sure what to make of.

When I first started, I watched the video on the steel-fx website showing spraing air, water, patina, etc on a piece of art.

I now know this:
1) the water followed by air spray was just to clean the metal off. We start with a dry piece of clean metal.
2) You then follow up with the patina spray, and soon follow up with a water spray.
3) It is better for the water spray to be just a light mist. It's this spraying water onto the patina that causes the metal to change color. Don't let the water be sprayed on too hard and wind up just rinsing the patina off. Otherwise the metal won't change color. I think it may be better just to use a 16 oz bottle similar to what the patina comes in to spray a mist of water on.
4) I let this water/patina mix sit on the piece for a while, like 10-20 seconds before air drying it off.
5) the patina spray will leave "spray marks" similar to spray painting a white object with black paint. I end up doing the entire piece every time I spray patina to prevent this "overspray" look.

Issue I'm still having: For whatever reason, some pieces of the metal simply REFUSE to change color. They stay bright shiny bare metal.

It's now to the point where when i put a clear coat on the object I put "copper-fx" on, it almost looks like I spray painted the piece copper but have a few areas that are still bare metal looking. I'm glad it's more solid looking and not messy and water-marked, but I'm going for a patina look. I have to keep experimenting with this. Oh yeah, now that the patina is going on more solid and uniform-the old RustOleum can I'm using is coming out in big chunks giving it an orange flake appearance. So now that my steel-fx is coming out better, the clear coat needs to look better.

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[Metriccar]

I think I put a little too much copper-fx on these. I put two coats on waiting about 10 seconds to air dry each round off. The first coat left bare metal and spotty areas in some places. I do have confidence steel fx will will work for me, be simpke and practical to apply, and be cost effective though. Just need to get this straightened out.

[Marty]

Metricarr
Dont know if you remember me. I certainly remember you Myself and others on this forum have generously offered suggestions and much encouragement with your use of Steel FX Patinas

We have answered your Steel FX Patina questions in many different ways using different examples and numerous suggestions Now I would like to have a turn asking questions after reviewing all the advise you received in the posts links from April 1 and June 1

I really would like to see your answers to my questions in this public forum

Posted April 1st
http://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=13041

Posted June 1
http://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=13556

Have you ever wondered why THOUSANDS of other users of Steel FX Patinas have had great success? Really, have you wondered?

Do you really think it is fair to malign a product again and again, at the same time others are reporting successful use of Steel FX Patinas?

Have you once tried to contact Steel FX directly?

Have you considered for one minute the effect that your continual blaming and negative words used about a great product line might have on on someone's livelihood ?

Why do you believe that folks want to hear your negative opinions and comments over and over?

Why do you think it is your calling and duty to report your negative updates every few weeks? "My experience with Steel FX Patina So Far" For goodness sake !

I may start a thread called "My experience with trying to help vindictive people who dont get it so far"

Maybe it is time to back off and think about how the the effect of your consistent negative comments has on others..... Steel FX Patinas are high quality and add real value to metal art pieces.....just because you personally can not make them work for you for some reason, it just is not fair to try to drag everyone else down into your little personal pity party

Marty
Ignition Metal Art Design

[Metriccar]

Marty, first off I thought this post was a POSITIVE post. I'm going to summarize all of this as briefly as possible. First off while I have been talking about it for months, my experience with Steel-FX is limited. I've been doing other things. Second, I have been doing it wrong, not following directions. Rather than using a water spray I tried dipping. I now spray with much better results. Third think it would help anyone starting out exactly what spraying patina, then water is doing, and how you do each step creates what effect. That is the main reason for my post. I am getting MUCH better results when I realize I shouldn't be spraying patina, then trying to rinse it all off. Fourth, as I already stated but being a reserved person who understates, sort of a "scientific method" of not getting too excited as I'm trying to test something, I DO want to buy more Steel-FX and was contemplating placing an $800 order soon for follow up on the colors I want to work with. If I sounded like I was bashing the product that statement should show everything I said should not be construed into a bash, because that is a LOT of money for me to be spending on consumable products and I wouldn't be buying $800 worth of product I didn't like. Last and final, my issues are minor compared to when I first started, so I have no issues contacting them directly. All of these posts are in the spirit of learning. I'm not bashing at all. If I were bashing, I'd be saying something along the lines of "I will never use this again and it's impossible or hard to get good results." I'm not saying that at all.

As for your questions I don't see any questions. I saw you write two posts. One where you referred back to the other.
"The need for quality and plentiful rinse water is critical, as you are sensing based on your remarks. An important part of a satisfactory application of patina is the ability to control the speed and depth of the patina's reaction with the metal.......this ability is a combo of a sense of timing and amount of water rinse....at the beginning and during the process.....the sense of timing is a learned thing, so practice, practice, practice....the water itself or course just has to be there in the right amount at the right time.....you might try a high capacity backpack water sprayer if as hose not available......as an example see this sprayer http://www.amazon.com/Chapin-61700N-Sur ... on+sprayer"
Agreed. Timing is everything. Now that I have all the proper equipment and have an understanding of exactly what each step is doing, I don't expect it to take me long to get it down. As for the water sprayer, I tried one similar. However I think I'm going to go even smaller, just a regular spray bottle. Other questions were source of air: I use air going through a 3 stage dessicnant.

[steelfx]

Hi Metriccar,

I'm sorry to hear that your learning curve is still giving you problems. I'll do my best here to clear up some confusion and hopefully get you on the right track.

The patination of steel is really very easy, but like any new endeavor, there is a certain amount of 'trial and error' involved. COPPER F/X? can be a little persnickety until you get used to the process, but after you've used it a few times it really does become second nature. In time, you can do it blind-folded.

My whole business model is based on teaching others how to maximize the value of their plasma-cut pieces, with as little frustration & cost as possible. Patinas and Dyes, followed by a high-quality clear-coat is the single best way to add value & profit to your art pieces. No other coating that I know of will fetch the prices that patinated/dyed steel will bring. And the cost per piece, believe it or not, is far less than other types of coating or finishes, with the possible exception of shooting Kandies & doing your own PC clear, in-house.

Below is the bulk of your post & I will address some of the issues that you're having in bold type, so you can see my responses more readily. Feel free to reach me by email at billworden@steelf-x.com or call my Shop at
1-800-710-1273, anytime. My cell is: 435-668-7244 if you need to text me or MMS a photo.

I get a lot of calls, so please leave a message & I promise I will get back to you. There's also a Contact Form on my site at: http://steelfxpatinas.com/shipping-contact-info/ The Contact Form even has a provision for easily attaching photos, which are very helpful when trouble-shooting a problem or just for admiring & posting your work.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________
You wrote:

When I first started, I watched the video on the steel-fx website showing spraing air, water, patina, etc on a piece of art.

I now know this:
1) the water followed by air spray was just to clean the metal off. We start with a dry piece of clean metal.
I prefer the steel to be damp, as opposed to bone-dry, but either way will work. You will find out which way works best for you.

2) You then follow up with the patina spray, and soon follow up with a water spray.
A soft "shower" spray is all that is needed to neutralize the patina & stop the chemical reaction. A Trigger-Sprayer bottle will not put out enough water to neutralize well. I use a garden hose & shower setting on an adjustable hose-end sprayer.

3) It is better for the water spray to be just a light mist. It's this spraying water onto the patina that causes the metal to change color.
The water rinse/neutralization does not cause the metal to change color. It is the chemical reaction of the individual patina that causes the color change. The water is just to stop the process before it becomes too dark, or before the patina starts to dry out on it's own. Don't let the water be sprayed on too hard and wind up just rinsing the patina off. If applied correctly, the patina will not "wash off". The color change is part of the substrate & will not lighten or flake off if applied correctly.

Otherwise the metal won't change color. I think it may be better just to use a 16 oz bottle similar to what the patina comes in to spray a mist of water on.
Again, the water has absolutely nothing to do with the chemical reaction and resulting color change. It is simply a "stop" for the chemical reaction. A spray-bottle will never give you enough water for proper neutralization.

4) I let this water/patina mix sit on the piece for a while, like 10-20 seconds before air drying it off. Sorry, but there is no "water/patina" mix. If a 10-20 second lag-time prior to air-drying is part of your repertoire or finishing style, I'm fine with that, but by most standards and conventional wisdom and years of coloring metal, that is way too long. You run the risk of unwanted flash-rust.

5) the patina spray will leave "spray marks" similar to spray painting a white object with black paint. I end up doing the entire piece every time I spray patina to prevent this "overspray" look.
You might try a kinder, gentler approach to spraying or misting the patinas. Adjust your spray pattern to the finest atomization possible & hold the nozzle closer to your steel. Even shorten your trigger-pull to half, or less...for more control.

Issue I'm still having: For whatever reason, some pieces of the metal simply REFUSE to change color. They stay bright shiny bare metal.
There are two things that can cause the steel to show through the patina or flake off, exposing the bright, shiny bare metal: 1) Residual oil on the steel. And 2) Applying too much patina. With COPPER F/X?, a light mist, one time only is all that is recommended or needed.
Going over the area again will cause the patina to eat it's way through the first application, exposing the steel.

It's now to the point where when i put a clear coat on the object I put "copper-fx" on, it almost looks like I spray painted the piece copper but have a few areas that are still bare metal looking. I'm glad it's more solid looking and not messy and water-marked, but I'm going for a patina look. I have to keep experimenting with this. Oh yeah, now that the patina is going on more solid and uniform-the old RustOleum can I'm using is coming out in big chunks giving it an orange flake appearance. So now that my steel-fx is coming out better, the clear coat needs to look better.

I personally detest Single-Stage clear-coats. Crap in a Can! Poor UV protection, if any. Pitifully thin film thickness and the durability & longevity is next to nil. Once you use a 2-Stage Clear, you will never, ever go back to single-stage. Some folks, like OldSarge does beautiful clears with powder-coat, but that is an art-form that requires high-quality powder (all powders, especially clears are NOT created equal) careful monitoring of time & temp.

In this business of plasma-cutting, It's All About The Finish.
Poor finish = Future Yard Sale Item. Rich Finish = Fine Art.
The former will get you $45. The latter may fetch 5X that, even more. Same steel, same cut...It's All About The Finish!

Keep plugging, don't give up & feel free to ask questions. Me, or some of the other amazing finishers on this forum will be sure to help. There are now 18 Videos on my site at: http://steelfxpatinas.com/steel-fx-training-videos/ with 3 more in the editing stage. If you watch all of them, or as many as time allows, you're almost certain to pick up some tips.

thanks,

Bill

[Metriccar]

Thanks, that actually clears up a lot. I'm going to watch all of those videos and read a lot more before this weekend. Here are some closeups other pieces I recently did, that came out with the finish I was hoping for. For whatever reason, I'm not getting water spots anymore. Just a solid, clean finish, which is what I'm looking for right now. Of course as time goes on I'm sure blending and all would look better to make those "gallery" pieces as opposed to "yard sale" pieces, but I'm just trying to create this effect for now.

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[dustywill]

Issue I'm still having: For whatever reason, some pieces of the metal simply REFUSE to change color. They stay bright shiny bare metal.
There are two things that can cause the steel to show through the patina or flake off, exposing the bright, shiny bare metal: 1) Residual oil on the steel. And 2) Applying too much patina. With COPPER F/X?, a light mist, one time only is all that is recommended or needed.
Going over the area again will cause the patina to eat it's way through the first application, exposing the steel.

...

thanks,

Bill [/b]

I would add one more thing I have run into that can leave that bare steel. I have had a couple of times I accidentally hit the steel with the side of the flap disc (plastic part) and it must wipe some plastic in the pores (or whatever they are called on steel) and seals it from the finish.

For the record I LOVE my steel FX patinas and can contrinute a large part of my success and business to the differentiation I have by using them.

Byron

[Metriccar]

1) I had a watermark issue where the water would leave run marks as it was drying. I found out this was due to not rinsing the piece thoroughly before I air dried it. However if you want a weathered appearance where it looks like rain ate away at the metal, that's one way of doing it.

2) I control the "overspray" by getting the area wet and holding the spray bottle close to the area I'm spraying.