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amidoingthisright
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Need help with Gorilla CNC Machine

Post by amidoingthisright » Wed Nov 09, 2022 2:16 pm

All,
Long time reader, first time writer:

I've taken over bringing a Gorilla Machines back to life. Everything runs currently but it doesn't cut like it should. I was hoping someone might tell me where to start looking and how some of this works. I've run ArcLight tables before so I'm familiar with most of this stuff but with these home-brew setups I'm coming up a bit dry. Here's a the run down...

Hypertherm XP 45
Proma
Gorilla Table
MyPlasm
Mach3
SheetCam

Can someone educate me on what's going on here? It seems like there's a bunch of things cobbled together and most of it is 3D printed.

So far it cuts but blows out the fresh tips when I use the settings out of the hypertherm charts as well as the MyPlasm software is very hard to use.

Thanks for any guidance!
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Re: Need help with Gorilla CNC Machine

Post by acourtjester » Wed Nov 09, 2022 4:58 pm

I know there are a few users here that use MyPlas electronics. You maybe just need to have someone walk you through the setup to get things working as it should. You are using a Hypertherm and their chart so it may be as simple as doing the axis speed and distance calibrations. Or you may have a bad sir supply that is contaminated, that has caused many to have bad cutting with eating consumables.
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Re: Need help with Gorilla CNC Machine

Post by amidoingthisright » Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:10 pm

acourtjester wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 4:58 pm
I know there are a few users here that use MyPlas electronics. You maybe just need to have someone walk you through the setup to get things working as it should. You are using a Hypertherm and their chart so it may be as simple as doing the axis speed and distance calibrations. Or you may have a bad sir supply that is contaminated, that has caused many to have bad cutting with eating consumables.

I appreciate the help. I do believe the air supply may be part of it, I see some condensation in the line and such. Is there a cheap air drying system that people use? I'm trying to help a MakerSpace out and they're not able to buy an expensive air dryer.

Also, how do I go about getting support on MyPlasm? I can't make sense of this 1/16, 1/8, 1/4 selection they're asking for on these stepper motors as well as I'm having trouble with keeping the XY axis from torqueing out of true when it runs.

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Re: Need help with Gorilla CNC Machine

Post by adbuch » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:34 pm

I'm with Tom on this one. A contaminated air supply (excess moisture, oil, etc.) is to me the most likely cause of your consumable problems. It may be helpful if you would post some photos of your cuts, consumables, etc. so we can really see what is going on here.

I believe the 1/16, 1/8, 1/4 most likely refer to the driver jumper setting for micro stepping.

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Re: Need help with Gorilla CNC Machine

Post by Plasma-art » Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:39 am

amidoingthisright wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:10 pm
Also, how do I go about getting support on MyPlasm? I can't make sense of this 1/16, 1/8, 1/4 selection they're asking for on these stepper motors as well as I'm having trouble with keeping the XY axis from torqueing out of true when it runs.
Is it using a single stepper for the gantry?
If so best to disconnect from the stepper so you can move the gantry and check if it runs smoothly.
For dual stepper check if the drivers are set to the same setting and also if the software uses the same steps per mm or inch.
If That checks out check the cables, there could be a break in one of the wires.
amidoingthisright wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:10 pm
I appreciate the help. I do believe the air supply may be part of it, I see some condensation in the line and such. Is there a cheap air drying system that people use? I'm trying to help a MakerSpace out and they're not able to buy an expensive air dryer.

For the air there are some cheaper alternatives then air dryes like moisture traps combined with an automatic tank purging through the drain valve.
However it's never going to be to the level of an actual air dryer.

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Re: Need help with Gorilla CNC Machine

Post by weldguy » Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:38 am

Clean and dry air will be the key to quality cuts and acceptable consumable life. Here is a link to a popular and affordable unit that many here use https://www.plasmaspider.com/shop/dryer_sharpe6760.html

Good advice from Plasma-art. If you can disengage the drive motors so they are not turning when you move the gantry and lifter that will be the easiest way to move the gantry around by hand to try and locate any tight spots or problem areas.

If everything checks out re-engage the motors and draw a large square the size of your cutting deck and do numerous dry runs and see if it torques u in the same spot every time. If so look to that area for an issue.

If the problem of it torquing up is random I am curious what speed you traveling at. It is common for folks to try and run as fast as possible and some setups just can't handle that. The faster a stepper rotates the less torque it has so you may just need to slow things down a bit.

Do dry runs at different speeds and you can determine if possibly speed is your issue. Let us know.

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Re: Need help with Gorilla CNC Machine

Post by acourtjester » Thu Nov 10, 2022 1:24 pm

When trying to move the table by hand do not disconnect the motors just turn power off, you may blow a driver with disconnecting the wires.
There should be a place to change the speed and acceleration in the software. I try to keep the acceleration 25% of the velocity values ( example 25 acceleration and 100 velocity). You can drive each axis with the keyboard arrows and Up/down keys. For the X and Y use the arrow keys and change the direction quickly for testing to see if it stalls
As David says forget the 1/16, 1/8, 1/4 stuff the switches on the drivers are where the main focus should be. They are for the number of steps per revolution of the motor shaft, this is not the same as the steps per inch or MM. Steps per revolution is for the speed and steps per inch will be for correct distance movement of the axis. Once the speed is setup then you do the steps per so the cutting size is correct.
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Re: Need help with Gorilla CNC Machine

Post by Plasma-art » Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:59 pm

acourtjester wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 1:24 pm
When trying to move the table by hand do not disconnect the motors just turn power off, you may blow a driver with disconnecting the wires.
I should have been more clear now I read your comment. :Like
When I said disconnect the steppers I meant dissasemble the mechanical connection between drive mechanism and carriage.
So ball nut, belt clamps or gear rack pinion so the carriages can move freely.

Just saying disconnect the steppers can be misunderstood now I think about it.

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Re: Need help with Gorilla CNC Machine

Post by amidoingthisright » Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:20 pm

Thanks all! I'll do my best to answer the questions here with pictures.

We're going to work on the dryer situation so for the moment let's set that aside (as much as we can) during the trouble shooting. This is a consumable I cut about 5 minutes on and it's already blown out.
IMG_1382.JPEG
My real issues are not understanding how all of this software is tying together and also how to set the speeds right.

Since I last posted I've taken most of the machine apart and tightened the belts on all of the axis. The X is a screw, but the X and the Y (both sides) are belts with 1 stepper motor for the X and one on each side for the Y.

The belt and roller tightening has helped reasonably to remove most of the slip, but not all of the slip, in the system.

Originally the cuts looked like this at 250 ipm
IMG_1446.JPEG
Now they look like this at 250 ipm
IMG_1447.JPEG
It appears that the slip is showing up at speeds above 100 ipm. The test piece is being run on 16 gauge steel so the chart calls for 249 ipm.


This is the machine and the hardware
IMG_1444.JPEG
IMG_1445.JPEG
IMG_1461.JPEG
IMG_1451.JPEG
IMG_1452.JPEG
IMG_1453.JPEG

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Last edited by amidoingthisright on Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

amidoingthisright
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Re: Need help with Gorilla CNC Machine

Post by amidoingthisright » Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:41 pm

Right now my goals are:

Figure out what options I should be using on the drop down shown here for the microstepping motor drivers
IMG_1456.JPEG
Correctly set the values in the top half of the screen here, I'm familiar with how to calibrate actual cut dimensions after we've got all of this fixed up I can dial it in
IMG_1455.JPEG
I'll continue to work on tolerances because it's clearly not able to return to home without slipping as shown here where I cut, then jogged the machine, then told it to return home and recut
IMG_1449.JPEG

Again, thanks for any help pointing me in the right direction!

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Re: Need help with Gorilla CNC Machine

Post by amidoingthisright » Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:05 pm

Based on the all of the dipswitches being set to ON/ON/OFF
IMG_1461.JPEG

that should be for a stepper that's 200 pulses for 1 rev but I'm seeing the motors are these 23HD56005Y-21B
Zyltech Nema 23 Stepper Motor 2.5 A 1.3 Nm 184 oz.in 56mm
IMG_1468.JPEG
But my options don't go that low
IMG_1462.JPEG
IMG_1464.JPEG

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Re: Need help with Gorilla CNC Machine

Post by weldguy » Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:18 pm

I would leave the drivers set for the microstep value they were when you received the machine for now and work on the accuracy and repeatability. I doubt that the microstep value has anything to do with not returning home.

Have you got all axis moving smoothly if you push it around by hand slowly?

With the system ON and motors powered up how difficult is it to push the gantry by hand?

Can you pinpoint when it is losing steps? sharp direction changes? On initial acceleration?

Whats your rapid speed set to, guys like to crank this up but for your setup I would match your cut speed for now.

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Re: Need help with Gorilla CNC Machine

Post by amidoingthisright » Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:31 pm

weldguy wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:18 pm
I would leave the drivers set for the microstep value they were when you received the machine for now and work on the accuracy and repeatability. I doubt that the microstep value has anything to do with not returning home.

Have you got all axis moving smoothly if you push it around by hand slowly?

With the system ON and motors powered up how difficult is it to push the gantry by hand?

Can you pinpoint when it is losing steps? sharp direction changes? On initial acceleration?

Whats your rapid speed set to, guys like to crank this up but for your setup I would match your cut speed for now.

Currently they're set to the way they came but I'm not convinced they were set correctly to begin with. That being said I agree they're not likely responsible for step loss.

X-axis moves smoothly by hand and hard to push when powered on but the Y is easier to push one side and then it's skips and becomes "unparallel". I've tightened the belt as far as I think it can be tightened and it seems rather taught.

I cannot quite pinpoint the step loss other than that it does not seem to happen at 100 ipm or below but does happen from 100 ipm to 250 ipm.

The rapid speed is set to the cut speed, currently for example we're cutting 16 gauge cold rolled so it's 249 ipm.

Thanks!

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Re: Need help with Gorilla CNC Machine

Post by acourtjester » Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:08 pm

I sounds like your Y problem can be a loose set screw on the motor shaft or if you have other gears in the drive assembly. with power on the axis should not move when pushed.
You may trying to contact this site as they sell My Plasm setups. Maybe they can tell you some original setting for the controller. The second is a site with tutorial videos that may help too. the third one has many videos to pick from on the right of the screen.
https://eagleplasma.com/technical-support/
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... yPlasm+CNC
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Re: Need help with Gorilla CNC Machine

Post by weldguy » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:52 am

amidoingthisright wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:31 pm

X-axis moves smoothly by hand and hard to push when powered on but the Y is easier to push one side and then it's skips and becomes "unparallel". I've tightened the belt as far as I think it can be tightened and it seems rather taught.

Thanks!
I am unable to determine for certain is your setup has a motor on both sides of the gantry or just one side.

If only one motor on the gantry does it have a jackshaft or something to drive the other side or does the other side just get dragged along?

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Re: Need help with Gorilla CNC Machine

Post by Plasma-art » Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:44 am

weldguy wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:52 am
I am unable to determine for certain is your setup has a motor on both sides of the gantry or just one side.
Looking at the driver board there is an A driver and my guess is that it set to slave the other motor.

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Re: Need help with Gorilla CNC Machine

Post by weldguy » Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:02 pm

I saw the A driver which is why I asked. So if you have a motor on both the left and right side of your gantry that is good.

Above you stated that one side of the Y is easier to push than the other. This should not be so.

If you were to move the Y axis by hand with the power off, can you confirm one side moves easier than the other as stated above?

Don't push on the gantry from the center, use both arms to push on both left and right side equally.

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