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Torchmate THC

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johnd123
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Torchmate THC

Postby johnd123 » Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:53 am

I have a torchmate plasma table with out a THC to add it from Torchmate it will cost me over $3300 and it will not use a hand torch I have a Snap-on plasma an they don't have a machine head. At CandCNC I can change everything for less but it runs on mach 3 need addvice johnd123 help

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acourtjester
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Re: Torchmate THC

Postby acourtjester » Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:15 am

what type of arc start does your plasma have HF or blow-back.
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johnd123
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Re: Torchmate THC

Postby johnd123 » Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:34 am

I don't know if its HF or blow-back I will have to find out

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Re: Torchmate THC

Postby kbenz » Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:23 pm

If you switch everything to CandCNC it comes with Mach3
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Sheetcam
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andrewshad
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Replace for Torchmate THC

Postby andrewshad » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:58 am

johnd123, if you still interested to find good THC solution for your torchmate table, you can look on this controller http://neuroncnc.com/products/neuronalone
This is a full stand alone and I think will works fine with your plasma table.
It's will be great if you give more information about your CNC and torch slide.

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Re: Torchmate THC

Postby jimcolt » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:21 am

The whole problem with the original Torchmate THC......and will be the same with a standalone (like the Neuron and a few others) is that the Torchmate motion control system does not have an output to control the on/off of the AVC (arc voltage control). Whenever a Torchmate decelerates for cornering...or for small features or holes....the THC will try to maintain the height via the arc voltage.....which naturally rises when the cut speed slows (deceleration)....this cause the THC to dive in corners, in holes and during kerf crossings. As long as you have the x and y axis controlled by the original Torchmate software and electronics...this will occur regardless of what THC is integrated.

CandCNC has configured a special package deal that includes software, height control and x and y axis for less than Torchmate would sell just the height control for. The Candcnc equipment treats the THC as another axis, and has the capability to freeze height during necessary slowdown, and has ohmic contact capability as well. I don't believe their newest product is Mach3 based either...as they are using newer faster Linux based motion control without the inherent delays that occur in Mach3. I suggest contacting www.CadnCNC.com regarding upgrading a Torchmate to good technology at a bargain price! Their package include the z axis lifter and motor......which most other THC suppliers do not offer.

Jim Colt

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Re: Torchmate THC

Postby gamble » Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:19 pm

^^ is that true with the new accumove2?
I thought about candcnc kit but I heard they are assholes
I am also in the same boat. $3300 for being control plus it comes with a breakaway torch too
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Brand X
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Re: Torchmate THC

Postby Brand X » Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:55 pm

Actually, Tom at CandCnc has done more for the moving the bar forward in the CNC hobby/light industrial then anyone out there. Les at SheetCam Too. Lets say he is somewhat direct. You are from Chicago, so you should handle the Texas Hospitably just fine.. :mrgreen:

I would say somebody Charging $3,300 for that THC are the A-holes.. Probably don't even get lube with it.. They are probably real nice in a used car salesman type of way..

andrewshad
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Re: Torchmate THC

Postby andrewshad » Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:29 pm

If I am wrong, please correct me. Mach3/Mach4/EMC2 motion controls does not have special output to control the on/off of the AVC too. We use Sheetcam rules/post processor for insert M10Px/M11Px or other code for THC on/off control. Torchmate can work with G-code too and signal generator has auxiliary outputs. This outputs can controlled for example from auxiliary codes M60/M61 (thanks to islander261 :)). Then we have to connect this output (5V TTL level) to THC ON/OFF input of the THC controller.
There is another problem - torchmate has "PierceComplete" input for motion start when torch will be on the cut height and "Fault" input for stopping motion if during cutting any fault will issue. But most THC controls usually use one Motion (OkToMove) signal for start and stop motion (if during cutting any fault issue, THC controller switch off this signal and CNC will stop (XY plane)) . In this case operator have to pay more attention for cutting process.

Andrew

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Re: Torchmate THC

Postby tcaudle » Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:39 pm

johnd123 wrote:I have a torchmate plasma table with out a THC to add it from Torchmate it will cost me over $3300 and it will not use a hand torch I have a Snap-on plasma an they don't have a machine head. At CandCNC I can change everything for less but it runs on mach 3 need advice johnd123 help


Same thing is now available in the LINUX version ...no Windows, No MACH. Limited qty of "Torchmate Rescue Package with all new electronics, motors , DTHCiV and 6'5 inch stroke Floating head Z, plus Free shipping Universal connection Kit allows use with any Plasma as long as the torch will fire in the air (HF or Blow back)

Yes, we are A-holes if someone calls with an attitude and gets abusive with any of the crew. We also don't mind referring a caller to a manual. Phone support is for users that are having problems and have gone through the setup and testing and can give us numbers and details. We do e-mail and support forum weekends and most holidays.

tcaudle
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Re: Torchmate THC

Postby tcaudle » Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:01 pm

If I am wrong, please correct me. Mach3/Mach4/EMC2 motion controls does not have special output to control the on/off of the AVC too


Depends on the THC. The DTHC for the last 4 years has DTHC ON/OFF from G=code or the screen without using an output in MACH. Same answer with LINUXCNC (EMC2). In fact the DTHCIV talks to Mach AND linuxcnc VIA PLUGINS directly and does not use ANY hardware inputs. UP DOWN and ARC OK are all handled by the DTHC.

While you can map an output to do a custom macro and even use the M10/M11 to trigger while moving, it then prevents using the M10/M11 for torch on/off while moving. You could do what I have seen and build a circuit that stops the UP DOWN commands from the THC (essentially stopping Z motion) but it has to be triggered by a hardware output.

More important than doing THC ON/OFF is doing it at the right time , not causing a motion glitch and based on the toolpath.

andrewshad
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Re: Torchmate THC

Postby andrewshad » Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:41 am

More important than doing THC ON/OFF is doing it at the right time , not causing a motion glitch and based on the toolpath.


Yes, Tom, you right.This is very important. For example Neuron has a different approach to this issue and use hardware input when works with Mach3 and LPT port, ESS or HiCON, because 100 or even 25 msec Mach3 plugin loop make 100 or 25 msec delay. It's not big delay for slow cutting, but when cutting on the 15000 mm/min - too big. For Mach4 (15 msec plugin loop) we use hardware input too for the same reasons. Hardware input has 3 msec max delay.
If we talk about Neuron Simplicity full stand alone controller - no plugin, only hardware and we can use It with any CNC, even with torchmate.
Yes, Mach3 M10Px/M11Px and Mach4 M62/M63 is very nice commands for triggering hardware output without motion delay and ESS, HiCON has full support for its. All Neurons not need more and control torch motor driver directly. This is internal motion control and closed loop height control.
But in any case customer does not even know about it, it's not his problem. He needed to efficiently and safely cut. :)

Andrew

tcaudle
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Re: Torchmate THC

Postby tcaudle » Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:18 pm

The only thing the plugin in MACH is used for is to move slow speed data from/to the DTHCIV..Things like the plasma presets. or dynamic changes of the plasma cut profile. or to send stuff to the operator screen. The actual motion and and closed loop (PID loop) are done in the DTHCIV and it drives the Z motor directly...only difference is that it will work equally well (transparently) with normal step & dir from MACH or LINUXCNC to use the Z for plasma, router or other actions out of G-Code.

While just having a THC on a TM can help, its only about 50% of what it needs to be a high performance table that CAN cut at 300 IPM and hold an accurate towpath on corners and tight turns. Putting a pearl necklace on a goat does not make it a prom Queen :o

We developed a stand alone version of the DTHC IV (DTHCIV-SA) in late 2014 with it's own graphical LCD and encoder setting knob but after a test release pulled it back and set it on the shelf. The support to try and make it work with a myriad of older (and some new) 2 axis controllers made us rethink the approach. Some have HOLD inputs and THC on/off outputs (or head lock outputs) from the software whereas others do not. Even in the same brand there are different controller models that handle it differently and do not have a defined set of connectors to make the interface Our market is not the techie guy that wants to dig about in their controller trying to figure out what signals and where they need to go.

andrewshad
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Re: Torchmate THC

Postby andrewshad » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:43 am

The support to try and make it work with a myriad of older (and some new) 2 axis controllers made us rethink the approach.

Hmm... We need just two or three signals between the controller and the CNC.
- Cycle Start (input)
- Ok to Move (output)
- AVC On/Off (input) - Of course it's will be great to have this signal for AVC (Automatic Voltage Control) On/Off from CNC, but we can works without it. Internal LockHeadDown, KerfDetect and ACA (Automatic Collision Avoidance) functions will prevent torch from diving and crashing on the corners, on the end of cut and etc. perfectly (of course if this functions works correctly and very fast).
A lot of people on the market use Mach3, Mach4, EMC2, PlanetCNC..... and China made CNC. Each has this signals. It's clear for setup. Voltage sourced and drain contacts I/O make connection easy.
I'm not trying to say it's better, and it's worse. We have nice THC controllers for Mach3 and Mach4 too (Stand alone, but user interface embedded to the Mach). Just to each system there is a customer who needs it, and he will be able to install It. IMHO the customer should have the choice.

Our market is not the techie guy that wants to dig about in their controller trying to figure out what signals and where they need to go.

I will not agree. In my experience, most customers understand what they want and our task to explain how to do it. We just need to spend some time and effort.

-Andrew

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Re: Torchmate THC

Postby gamble » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:58 pm

tcaudle wrote:
johnd123 wrote:I have a torchmate plasma table with out a THC to add it from Torchmate it will cost me over $3300 and it will not use a hand torch I have a Snap-on plasma an they don't have a machine head. At CandCNC I can change everything for less but it runs on mach 3 need advice johnd123 help


Same thing is now available in the LINUX version ...no Windows, No MACH. Limited qty of "Torchmate Rescue Package with all new electronics, motors , DTHCiV and 6'5 inch stroke Floating head Z, plus Free shipping Universal connection Kit allows use with any Plasma as long as the torch will fire in the air (HF or Blow back)

Yes, we are A-holes if someone calls with an attitude and gets abusive with any of the crew. We also don't mind referring a caller to a manual. Phone support is for users that are having problems and have gone through the setup and testing and can give us numbers and details. We do e-mail and support forum weekends and most holidays.

lol fair enough!
Why is the rescue package linux only?

Why can't I reuse the old motors from my torchmate ?
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/torchmat ... st35498090

TM just announced no more 10% discount to older members so I guess this is starting to point me in your direction sooner than later
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tcaudle
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Re: Torchmate THC

Postby tcaudle » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:30 pm

Why is the rescue package linux only?

  • ]Because its better, faster and cheaper.
  • That same package in Windows and MACH would cost you $265 bucks more!
  • Its 2016 technology versus 2013

Why can't I reuse the old motors from my torchmate ?

Well, I guess you can if you are happy with the rather poor performance of those underpowered motors. The new motors will triple your acceleration and let you cut faster with sharper turns. You can't use their controller because its proprietary to the software (actually older Flashcut system) so you are back to having to use a stand alone THC system or buy one form TM
We don't sell our Bladerunner series without motors because its all engineered, wired and tested to work together and the warranty is for the whole package INCLUDING the motors.
TM just announced no more 10% discount to older members so I guess this is starting to point me in your direction sooner than later

They have made a LOT of changes including a whole new controller and THC combo. The corporate bean counters have been changing the "business model" (translated: raising prices and cutting costs)

tcaudle
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Re: Torchmate THC

Postby tcaudle » Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:25 pm

I will not agree. In my experience, most customers understand what they want and our task to explain how to do it. We just need to spend some time and effort.

-Andrew


I stated "Our" as in Our company. We understand our market . We do not propose we understand yours or what your customers want or need. And not all Torchmates have the inputs and outputs you list and if they do its up to the end user to try and find them. They won't run MACH3 or MACH4, They have their own Windows based custom control program and their own pulse card (RS232 on older ones and USB on newer) and its not exactly something you can get in and mess about with. I have two of their old controllers laying on my "bone pile" There are enough cables to weave a blanket.


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