You CONDUIT!

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Joe Jones
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You CONDUIT!

Post by Joe Jones »

I have been wanting to try this for a long time. I just can't seem to get to it.

The table grates are okay, but they allow pieces to fall through, and they are a PITA to change.

So I am thinking of creating a tray, much like a water table tray. it would have a steel angle iron frame beneath it, with an expanded metal bottom to allow bits of dross and stuff to fall through it.

Imagine if you will ... a steel tray with vertical sides and a flat bottom. The tray is perhaps 3" deep and it rests on the table frame on all four sides. The factory grate slats are REMOVED from the table.

Stacked inside of this tray of a specific x/y dimension, are (?) quantity of lengths of electrical conduit, laid out standing vertically in a honeycomb pattern as in this photo. They are all the same length, and the height of these tubes can be SELECTED when they are made. They are perhaps 3/4" or 1" diameter, or larger, and they are arranged in the tray as you would place rolls of pennies into a shoebox, on end.

The tops of these vertical tubes serve as the "grate" the material lays on, and slides over. The plasma flame blows down through the tubes, or maybe nicks the edge of a round tube as it passes over. The tube can still support material using the remaining 98% of the round top surface.

As the tubes are nicked more and more, they become less able to individually support the material, however the close proximity of the neighboring tubes makes for a constant flat surface where the tubes have NOT been completely cut at their original top edge. So even if ONE tube is no longer the original length at any point around the circle, the neighboring tubes provide material support on six sides of that short tube, and only one inch or less away.

If a tube becomes too badly cut, it is easily lifted out of the honeycomb grid, and the other tubes remain in place while a NEW single tube is inserted into the empty position where the old one was removed, and tapped down to the bottom of the tray.

The original tray of tubes would take some time to create, and it would cost a little money. SAVE MONEY by asking your electrical contractor friends to toss the cutoffs from their conduit projects into a pile for you to collect and haul away. Do you have any idea how much old BENT conduit is tossed into the scrapyards EVERY SINGLE DAY? you only need ... six inches of straight conduit to make a piece for the table.

One man's TRASH really is another man's treasure! :lol:

After it is constructed, the table would almost be forever flat, based on hundreds of tubes, some new, some nicked, some cut even more, but no group of tubes so badly damaged that there would be a depression in the flat top surface to worry about.

1. Small pieces would NOT fall through.

2. Damaged tubes are EASILY replaced.

3. Dross build up can be handled EITHER by replacing the single tube, or running a belt sander over the surface of all of the tubes, using an aggressive course belt, or even a 7" grinding wheel run over the tops of the tubes.

4. LESS tip ups!

I truly believe this would work Grrrrrrrr..eat!

This is one of my summer "To-Do" projects for my 510 table.

Joe
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Re: You CONDUIT!

Post by Joe Jones »

Some quick phone calls and a bit of Internet searching provided the following numbers. I calculated how many vertical cylinders would fit into a 5x10 and 4x4 tray, depending on the diameter of the cylinders.

I set up a spreadsheet to calculate the cost with the cylinders at lengths of 2", 2.5" and 3" in length.

I added tubing of 1/2" to 2" diameter. Larger diameters come with thicker walls, and that defeats the purpose for a plasma table.

This is my price for NON-GALVANIZED steel tubing, bought in bulk.

It appears hat the 1.5" diameter, 14 gauge tubing gives the best value at any length.

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Re: You CONDUIT!

Post by Joe Jones »

Considering the price of the PlasmaCam grate slates, this is a viable alternative.

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Post by Joe Jones »

You cannot use galvanized tubing on a plasma table. the fumes would kill you! But you CAN find thin wall raw steel tubing at a reasonable price. All you need is a way to accurately cut the 20 foot lengths into 2" to 3" pieces.

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Re: You CONDUIT!

Post by weldguy »

Clever and creative idea Joe. The cost if not low enough for me to want to go to all the trouble to build it and I am not a fan of all the surface area in contact with the bottom of the plate.

As I am sure you have seen for yourself whenever the torch passes over a deck slat you get a little piece of slag on that spot. For example if you were to cut a simple 24" square you would have many of these little slag spots around the entire perimeter of the square. Straight slats would have less of this and the slats with the little points the hold up the material would be the best to eliminate this issue.

I think Pcam come with these pointed slats. Like I said its very clever but may not be so practical. Cutting your own replacement slats for your Pcam would be the most cost effective and there is even a file available to do so here viewtopic.php?f=61&t=2272
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Re: You CONDUIT!

Post by Joe Jones »

What do you think about cutting the top of the tubes at an angle? in that way you only have a small sliver of an arc touching the material.

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Re: You CONDUIT!

Post by rdj357 »

Downdraft? This is not unlike the honeycomb found in a CO2 laser bed. I'm not a fan of it for laser application but as long as you figure out a way to handle air movement then I don't see why it wouldn't work. I much prefer slats to the original grate point design of the OEM Plasmacam personally.
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Re: You CONDUIT!

Post by Joe Jones »

weldguy wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:30 pm
As I am sure you have seen for yourself whenever the torch passes over a deck slat you get a little piece of slag on that spot. For example if you were to cut a simple 24" square you would have many of these little slag spots around the entire perimeter of the square.
I get dross that needs to be removes anyway. I don't see that as a problem. I've been using a wire cup brush on a grinder, with a bank of magnet bars. I lay the metal onto the magnets and wire brush one side, then flip it over and brush the face.

NOW I have this totally awesome dual drum sander to handle the task for me! I don't mind PlasmaCam's "point grate" setup, but if the slats were much closer together, perhaps every 1.5" in stead of every 6", I would spend a lot less time dealing with tip ups and drops that need to be fished out from beneath the table with a magnet on an extended wand.

You bring up a valid point though. If I used 1/2" or 3/4" tubes for the table, and cut them on an angle, only a small sliver of the arc would support the material, while the rest dropped below the material's bottom surface. If a tip was burned away, the void would be surrounded by six more tips in a polar array around it, and within .01" to 3/4" distance away, depending on the orientation of the six surrounding tubes.

I really do not see the contact point / slag risk as something to worry about.

Joe

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Re: You CONDUIT!

Post by tinspark »

Joe Jones wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:10 pm
weldguy wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:30 pm
As I am sure you have seen for yourself whenever the torch passes over a deck slat you get a little piece of slag on that spot. For example if you were to cut a simple 24" square you would have many of these little slag spots around the entire perimeter of the square.
I get dross that needs to be removes anyway. I don't see that as a problem. I've been using a wire cup brush on a grinder, with a bank of magnet bars. I lay the metal onto the magnets and wire brush one side, then flip it over and brush the face.

NOW I have this totally awesome dual drum sander to handle the task for me! I don't mind PlasmaCam's "point grate" setup, but if the slats were much closer together, perhaps every 1.5" in stead of every 6", I would spend a lot less time dealing with tip ups and drops that need to be fished out from beneath the table with a magnet on an extended wand.

You bring up a valid point though. If I used 1/2" or 3/4" tubes for the table, and cut them on an angle, only a small sliver of the arc would support the material, while the rest dropped below the material's bottom surface. If a tip was burned away, the void would be surrounded by six more tips in a polar array around it, and within .01" to 3/4" distance away, depending on the orientation of the six surrounding tubes.

I really do not see the contact point / slag risk as something to worry about.

Joe


SANDER.jpg
Could Weldguy be talking about any slag that might pile up at the "bottom" of the pan/ expanded metal. Not a problem for the first few cuts, but if the conduits are moved over teh slag sticking to the bottom of the expanded, they might not lay flat and be a nuisance after a bit.
it might be a pain to scrape it out every other time.

I wonder if aluminum expanded metal might be easier to keep slag free than mild steel. it works great for my all-aluminum I-beam my welding table. Never plasma cut over it though, so just a thought.
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Post by Joe Jones »

Hmmm... The bottom expanded screen could be replaceable, like the paper at the bottom of a bird cage. I suppose a test is the best way to reveal the problems.

If the tubes were arranged so that you could place another tray OVER the tubes, and then flip them (like the hotel waffle irons) the tubes could be dropped onto a new pan with a clear expanded metal, and the old (now inverted) pan and expanded metal could be removed and cleaned for the next changeover.

I have wondered if a sprayer like that used to kill weeds could be used to spray a non-flammable oil onto the grates. Cooking oil takes a lot of heat. There may be other biodegradable oils that may work better. Would that reduce or eliminate the slag build up on the grates, or the expanded metal bottom of a tray? I don't know.

They do make "Anti-Spatter" spray for welding, wo there must be something that can be used.

All of this makes me want to buy a LASER table!

Joe



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Re: You CONDUIT!

Post by SegoMan DeSigns »

This is input from a Free-Thinking-Non-Branded third party here.. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

My 2x2 has a 3" deep water pan with slat spacing slightly wider than the crevice tool on the shop vac, the 6x12 has a 5-1/2" deep water pan with slats set on a 4" center line. I set the big table up in with 4 sections of slats (the center 2 are removable for cutting up to 12" tall pieces). Slats are reversible to maximize $$ I use what I call a sharks tooth design as less dross builds up on the slats as it is buffered by water therefore dross does not stick to it as readily.

20190602_192804.jpg

IMG_20200807_213630065~2.jpg

IMG_20200807_214913403.jpg

IMG_20200808_111834201.jpg

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Re: You CONDUIT!

Post by tinspark »

SegoMan DeSigns wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:23 pm This is input from a Free-Thinking-Non-Branded third party here.. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

My 2x2 has a 3" deep water pan with slat spacing slightly wider than the crevice tool on the shop vac, the 6x12 has a 5-1/2" deep water pan with slats set on a 4" center line. I set the big table up in with 4 sections of slats (the center 2 are removable for cutting up to 12" tall pieces). Slats are reversible to maximize $$ I use what I call a sharks tooth design as less dross builds up on the slats as it is buffered by water therefore dross does not stick to it as readily.


20190602_192804.jpg



IMG_20200807_213630065~2.jpg



IMG_20200807_214913403.jpg



IMG_20200808_111834201.jpg
Nicely done !!
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Re: You CONDUIT!

Post by Joe Jones »

I hear both sides of the water table debate. Some people swear by it, while others say, "NEVER AGAIN!"

I have thought about trying it, but everyone tells me, "It is nice at first, but then when it comes time to clean the table, you will regret it."

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Re: You CONDUIT!

Post by SegoMan DeSigns »

The secret to a water tray is a tank to drain it into when your done cutting, let the dross in the tray dry and clean it out on a semi-monthly routine or as build up dictates.. It gets -40 in my neck of the woods having a door open or fan running is not an option. Thin metals are less prone to warping and you're not getting black lung disease while cutting. I can't think of using a table without one
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Post by Joe Jones »

I think I will set up this on my 4x4 table, just as an experiment. I will begin with flat tubes of 1.5" steel, NOT galvanized. I want to see if the dross on the bottom side is really an issue. I don't think it will be, and if it is, I get to try out the new dual drum sander :HaHa

I will make the tray, and drop in 1,147 2" long tube of 1.5" diameter. Then I will cut some metal and see how it all behaves. It will only be a $500.00 experiment, at best. :roll: I can make the sides of the tray using 14 ga. steel, and the frame out of angle iron. Then I will drop a 4x4 square of expanded metal into it, and put it through its paces. More summer fun.

I still need to figure out what I am going to do for Christmas. I want to do SOMETHING with these church pews! So much to do. So little energy. :Sad

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Post by djreiswig »

Hey, you can use your new tube cutter attachment to cut the tubing. When you get it finished. :HaHa
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Re: You CONDUIT!

Post by cutnweld »

djreiswig wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:14 am Hey, you can use your new tube cutter attachment to cut the tubing. When you get it finished. :HaHa
And dont forget to powder coat in your home built oven. That will keep dross from sticking.
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Re: You CONDUIT!

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cutnweld wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:36 am
djreiswig wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:14 am Hey, you can use your new tube cutter attachment to cut the tubing. When you get it finished. :HaHa
And dont forget to powder coat in your home built oven. That will keep dross from sticking.
:HaHa :HaHa :HaHa :HaHa :HaHa :HaHa
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Post by cutnweld »

looks to me like a tremedous amount of work. But then again I guess a plasmacam is so fast that all their owners are yearning for more to do in their spare time. Maybe i will buy me one after all
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djreiswig wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:14 am Hey, you can use your new tube cutter attachment to cut the tubing. When you get it finished. :HaHa
Actually, I could. I have no help, and no energy. A bad combination when the TO DO list grows larger. The over frame is back together after a mini twister picked it up and threw it onto the ground next to my shop. The pipe cutter is in limbo, for lack of energy alone. All of the parts are there. I just need to get out to the shop and get at it. I do want to try the tube bed on the 4x4 as well. So much to do, and so little help or energy to do them.

In between all of that, I am taking banjo lessons :lol: Right now I sound like the chicken pecking at the toy piano. But give me six months or a year and I'll be able to play a tune without driving people out of the room.

Now, a series of phone calls. My 85 year old uncle in a nursing home is probably not going to see his next Christmas. I am the POA for his medical and financial affairs. So the calls come to me. I may have to drive up to Chicago in a few days to take care of that situation.

Like my uncle says, "Life is fun? I want to know when the FUN begins."

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Re: You CONDUIT!

Post by SegoMan DeSigns »

Why not use that NASA approved software and cut your own slats on the mother of all CNC tables ?
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SegoMan DeSigns wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 1:04 pm Why not use that NASA approved software and cut your own slats on the mother of all CNC tables ?
I drew up a file with three variations of the grates for both the 4x4 and 5x10 tables.

Joe
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Re: You CONDUIT!

Post by Joe Jones »

cutnweld wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:49 am looks to me like a tremedous amount of work. But then again I guess a plasmacam is so fast that all their owners are yearning for more to do in their spare time. Maybe i will buy me one after all
Four sides, bent to set inside of the table frame.
A square of expanded metal.
A angle iron frame beneath the expanded metal to maintain a flat top surface and still allow slag to drop through to the floor.
a few THOUSAND short metal tubes ...

Note to self: Find a FAST tube cutting machine...

I actually thought about making this using aluminum soda cans ... all the same size! All the same height! EASY to collect! CHEAP to replace!

But then, I'd be mixing aluminum in my steel scrap, and I guess that creates a disposal problem. :Sad

Where is that massive pile of undented empty Campbell's Soup cans? :lol:

Seriously, I wonder how many standard cans of dog food the local dog pounds open on a daily basis? :roll:

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Re: You CONDUIT!

Post by Joe Jones »

cutnweld wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:36 am
djreiswig wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:14 am Hey, you can use your new tube cutter attachment to cut the tubing. When you get it finished. :HaHa
And dont forget to powder coat in your home built oven. That will keep dross from sticking.
What's wrong with having a nice LOOKING oven? :HaHa

Joe



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Re: You CONDUIT!

Post by SegoMan DeSigns »

Joe Jones wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:52 pm
SegoMan DeSigns wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 1:04 pm Why not use that NASA approved software and cut your own slats on the mother of all CNC tables ?
I drew up a file with three variations of the grates for both the 4x4 and 5x10 tables.

Joe

TABLE SLATS.pcm
To ashamed of your work to post a DXF so us aby-normal people can look at them? :HaHa :HaHa
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