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[ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by adbuch » Sun Apr 24, 2022 3:34 am

Your cuts don't look too bad now. What is your main complaint currently with your cut quality?
David

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by Togata » Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:28 am

Dear adbuch,

It is not a complain, but more of being curious to why did the color of the cut move to yellow, once the electrode died. And the question is, is it normal? If not, I would need to dig in to avoid a major failure of the 45XP unit.
In a normal cut the once the torch cut the sheet, you start seeing a normal white spot between the pieces cut.
It was the case from the start, but once the electrode die, the color moved to yellow. (you can check the photo and the previous photo, the colors are real they are not a reflection of my camera or light or something).
I just wanted to know from your experience if this phenomenon is normal.
Best regards,

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by robertspark » Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:22 am

could it be the zinc burning as it seems like you are cutting galvanised steel.

now you have removed the oil content from the oil the air is pure air and the heat near the cut may be forcing the zinc to burn / combust with the forced airflow of the plasma cutter nozzle.

I have not cut zinc / galv, and try my best to avoid welding it as it's fumes are not good for your health.

(Jim colt insight needed / hypertherm for suggestions)

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by Togata » Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:37 am

Yes I am cutting galvanized sheet. The cutting height is the same for all my cuts. Why does the burning appear in the last cut? could it be coming from something else instead of the zinc?

I would be great to have an external opinion, Jim Colt or anyone else. Maybe we are missing something out of the radar.

Appreciated your contribution.

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by robertspark » Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:02 am

I've been searching Google for some images on exothermic reactions with zinc, but I did notice a few things popping up with science experiments with zinc and copper and also zinc and sulphur. I did wonder if the yellow tinge was from possible sulphur (from oil) in your compressed air hoses, now you have added filters that may be just enough to help that exothermic reaction when cutting the galvanized sheet. there is a hypertherm rep who comes on here from time to time it may be worth sending him a PM and referring your images so he could provide some insight from hypertherm technical

https://plasmaspider.com/memberlist.php ... le&u=42609

Jim colt I've not seen on here for quite some time but I have read that he does frequent other forums from time to time

if it is hose related it may get better over time now you have better oil filtration

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by Togata » Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:09 am

I will see how the cuts results will be now that I have better oil filtration. I will look into that, thanks!

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by weldguy » Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:16 pm

Great that you have added some extra filtration, that will certainly help but not right away. It will take time since your torch lead which is 20+ feet long and it too will be contaminated and will take some time with clean air flowing through it to clear it out. Things should get better as you go. as for the difference in color I am not sure, I have seen both whitish and yellowish on the cut edges of galvanized and unsure what causes that.

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by HypHyDef » Tue May 03, 2022 8:36 am

robertspark wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:02 am
I've been searching Google for some images on exothermic reactions with zinc, but I did notice a few things popping up with science experiments with zinc and copper and also zinc and sulphur. I did wonder if the yellow tinge was from possible sulphur (from oil) in your compressed air hoses, now you have added filters that may be just enough to help that exothermic reaction when cutting the galvanized sheet. there is a hypertherm rep who comes on here from time to time it may be worth sending him a PM and referring your images so he could provide some insight from hypertherm technical

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=42609

Jim colt I've not seen on here for quite some time but I have read that he does frequent other forums from time to time

if it is hose related it may get better over time now you have better oil filtration
You can either PM me on here or you can send me images to information@hypertherm.com. While i'm happy to be the go between your fastest option would be to reach out to technical support directly, you can reach them here: https://www.hypertherm.com/en-US/contac ... -questions or you can call them and speak with someone, that number is Technical service
(800) 643-9878
Randy,
Marketing Data Specialist – Americas Region
Hypertherm Inc.

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by AlphaTekErik » Fri May 06, 2022 2:51 pm

Electrodes and Nozzles should be replaced in pairs. the inside of your nozzle looked bad in the picture above. unusual colors of any sort can almost always be traced to a bad consumable. best wishes.

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by weldguy » Fri May 06, 2022 3:10 pm

AlphaTekErik wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 2:51 pm
Electrodes and Nozzles should be replaced in pairs. the inside of your nozzle looked bad in the picture above. unusual colors of any sort can almost always be traced to a bad consumable. best wishes.
I would disagree, although if cost was not a concern this would be ideal however electrodes and nozzles may not wear at the same rate, often electrodes will last much longer than a nozzle. I often use 2 nozzles up before my electrode needs to be replaced. Staining on the consumables is more often a result of contaminated air, oil, water, humidity, etc. The staining is the carbon left over after the contaminate has been incinerated, when the contamination is incinerated it overheats the consumables and you can see discoloration from this additional heat. A sure sign that you need to clean up your air supply.

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by adbuch » Fri May 06, 2022 3:13 pm

weldguy wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 3:10 pm
AlphaTekErik wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 2:51 pm
Electrodes and Nozzles should be replaced in pairs. the inside of your nozzle looked bad in the picture above. unusual colors of any sort can almost always be traced to a bad consumable. best wishes.
I would disagree, although if cost was not a concern this would be ideal however electrodes and nozzles may not wear at the same rate, often electrodes will last much longer than a nozzle. I often use 2 nozzles up before my electrode needs to be replaced. Staining on the consumables is more often a result of contaminated air, oil, water, humidity, etc. The staining is the carbon left over after the contaminate has been incinerated, when the contamination is incinerated it overheats the consumables and you can see discoloration from this additional heat. A sure sign that you need to clean up your air supply.
:Like :Like :Like

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by SegoMan DeSigns » Fri May 06, 2022 3:20 pm

:Like :Like :Like For the above 2 comments, I do the same 2:1 ratio.

Extended consumable life is directly proportional to clean / moisture free air.

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by AlphaTekErik » Fri May 06, 2022 3:59 pm

i stand by what i said. want the best cut, keep your consumables mated. keep the gasses clean, let the contaminates leave the system, then you can go with what the other guy said. just telling you what i would do if i had your problem.
best wishes.

additionally they disagree and agree with me at the same time. changing nozzle and electrode IS the best way, its just not the cheapest way. they wanna save you money and i dont.

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by adbuch » Fri May 06, 2022 5:07 pm

Consumables "mated" does not necessarily give the "best cut". It certainly won't (or shouldn't) be any worse.

https://www.hypertherm.com/en-US/learn/ ... electrode/
Hypertherm electrode wear.jpg

https://www.hypertherm.com/en-US/learn/ ... zzle-wear/
Hypertherm nozzle wear.jpg
Or upgrade to the Hypertherm Sync cutter where you have no choice.

David

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by SegoMan DeSigns » Fri May 06, 2022 6:14 pm

Finally a viable candidate for the sync system...

Glad to see Hypertherm has got one cause they ain't going to get one from me :HaHa :HaHa

Cut quality issue??

Here is some 3/4" & 1"

IMG_20201103_121310372_HDR.jpg

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by Togata » Sat May 07, 2022 8:56 am

HypHyDef wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 8:36 am
robertspark wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:02 am
I've been searching Google for some images on exothermic reactions with zinc, but I did notice a few things popping up with science experiments with zinc and copper and also zinc and sulphur. I did wonder if the yellow tinge was from possible sulphur (from oil) in your compressed air hoses, now you have added filters that may be just enough to help that exothermic reaction when cutting the galvanized sheet. there is a hypertherm rep who comes on here from time to time it may be worth sending him a PM and referring your images so he could provide some insight from hypertherm technical

https://plasmaspider.com/memberlist.php ... le&u=42609

Jim colt I've not seen on here for quite some time but I have read that he does frequent other forums from time to time

if it is hose related it may get better over time now you have better oil filtration
You can either PM me on here or you can send me images to information@hypertherm.com. While i'm happy to be the go between your fastest option would be to reach out to technical support directly, you can reach them here: https://www.hypertherm.com/en-US/contac ... -questions or you can call them and speak with someone, that number is Technical service
(800) 643-9878
Dear HypHyDef,

Thank you for replying, I would love if you could ask your technical team to report the answer to you and reply back here in this thread.
So that in case the problem is resolved, we could leave a mark to anyone who would meet the same problems as I encountered.
I would be also my way to contribute back to the forum, before you replied, some members here took the time out of their schedule and replied to my questions, which really means a lot.
If we could keep the answers in this thread, we could help future members find a go to solution, in case they meet the same problem.
It would be a way to somehow contribute back a little bit of the value they provided to me.

Waiting for your reply.

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by SeanP » Sun May 08, 2022 6:14 am

I get just same air pressure test reading as you on my 45XP.

I'm not sure that swirl ring is the right one to use, I think that is for hand cutting only, you should be using the regular one for machine use.

I gave up using the ohmic shield especially on galvanized, I had no end of trouble with spatter build up, I use finecut unshielded with the deflector 220955 for all finecut use, I think it gives better cuts and way less trouble with spatter on all materials.
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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by Togata » Sun May 08, 2022 8:29 am

Dear Seanp,

I think there is a misunderstanding, I am using the right swirl ring for mechanized torch.
You can see the reference in the manual it is the same.

I use the 220947 swirl ring for finecut

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by SeanP » Sun May 08, 2022 5:34 pm

Everything I have seen says that swirl ring is for hand cutting, no idea if it makes much difference, but seen as your electrode looks a bit toasted it might be worth a try🤔
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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by adbuch » Sun May 08, 2022 6:31 pm

I use the same swirl ring for hand and cnc cutting and find no difference with my cut quality or performance. There is a separate swirl ring for FineCuts which has a different part number than the regular one. To me it looks like the FineCut swirl ring has fewer holes in the perimeter, but I have used a regular (non-FineCut) swirl ring with FineCut consumables and really didn't notice any difference in cutting or cut quality.
David

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by djreiswig » Sun May 08, 2022 6:39 pm

The fine cut one does have less holes. I didn't know that there was a different swirl ring for fine cuts initially, so I was using the regular one for quite a while. I did get the correct one, but I haven't noticed a lot of difference in the cuts either.
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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by Togata » Mon May 09, 2022 4:03 am

Can someone here take a picture of his (finecut or other) consumables expired, please.

So that we could see the normal state of an expired consumable and then work out solutions troubleshooting until we happen to get the same visual appearance for the same consumables.

I would really help, if someone with clean cut, clean air, right setup, could take a picture of his expired consumables (nozzle and electrode) would be really great. Thank you.

Using the visual photo as comparison we could compare our expired consumables physical appearance and make a judgment.

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by Togata » Fri May 13, 2022 12:51 pm

Dear PlasmaSpider community,

I came back after making changes to my air filters and my setup with photos to show the results on my consumables.
The results are not 100% perfect, I would like to have your opinion on the state of the nozzle and the electrode.
I will upload first the links to the previous state of my consumables below, before changing the air filter setup.

Image
Image
Image
Image

Know, I will upload the links to the current state of my consumables, after changing the air filter setup.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

As you can see, there is still a little bit of dust or probably burned oil, is it normal to not get 100% clean air?
Do you guys encounter the same result?
I am starting to put some suspicions toward my compressor, perhaps the pistons leak oil, I will need to dig into that.
But before that, I would love to hear your opinions.

Thank you again for your time and consideration.

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by SegoMan DeSigns » Fri May 13, 2022 1:21 pm

What does the air coming out of the bottom of the tank look like? (blow some into a clean paper towel) do the after your air dryer. Are you running an automatic tank drain??

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Re: [ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

Post by Togata » Fri May 13, 2022 2:29 pm

I tried to see the how does the air behave after the air dryer and the filters and I noticed no humidity.
I didn't try directly after the output of the compressor.
We have manual drain for the gas tank, we drain each day in the morning before starting up the compressor. (we drain the compressor tank, the gas tank container, the filters, the manometers, ect...)
We have an automatic drain for the refrigerated air dryer.
Each morning we let the refrigerated air dryer run 3 minutes empty, before opening the valves that supply the air from the compressor.
Every day at the end of the operations, we pump out the whole circuit of compressed air (refrigerated dryer, 45XP unit and filters) by opening a valve that throw the air to the outside, we close the valve once there is no air anymore. On the other hand, we keep compressed air, isolated in the gas tank and the compressor tank (in order to avoid wasting energy).
After that in the morning, we drain the gas tank and the compressor from condensed water (the condensed water falls below, so once we open the drain, there is water flowing out and once we sense only air going out, we close the drain valve)and after that running the refrigerated air dryer empty for 3 minutes, we open the valve that supply the compressed air to the air dryer, filters and finally the 45 XP unit.
We follow this procedure everyday.
I am open for criticism, if something is wrong for any reason, please do not hesitate to share it, thank you!

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