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A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by Joe Jones » Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:22 pm

The lasers are sold on eBay, but they are far less powerful now, and you cannot turn them ON without the diffuser lens in place.

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by Joe Jones » Sat Jul 23, 2022 11:55 pm

acourtjester wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:10 pm
I have this one with the roller attachment for mug or tumbler etching. (20 Watt). I also have the dual diode laser module which I have on my CNC table. The Ortur will be on its way soon. I may look into the https://www.atomstack.net/collections/l ... 5252532474 soon as it is more powerful with 4 diode lasers.
I just bought the X-Tool 20 Watt laser with the frame extension, the air assist, the rotary tool and two honeycomb grates. I decided to see what I can do with it. The other laser is awesome, but it has a small work area. The X-Tool is 36" wide and 19 :roll: inches tall, I believe. I could be wrong. I think I will use it to cut designs into vinyl LPs, but this just opens up another avenue for me. I have to figure out what to make, for Christmas! I'd love to show up at the Nashville Christmas Craft Fair with a thousand widgets to sell for the AMAZING LOW PRICE of $25.00 each! I think that the church benches will finally become ... SOMETHING.

Joe

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by acourtjester » Sun Jul 24, 2022 12:13 am

There are all types of YouTube videos about using one of these laser for making money. I would check into laser cutting vinyl LPs to see if any bad gas is released, I know you cannot do PVC due to poison gas release. You may look into etching wood items here is a neat cutting board/ wall hanger, little long winded.

here is another etching color on canvas

Looking to do mass marketing may be a little tight trying to find the right items.
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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by Joe Jones » Sun Jul 24, 2022 12:53 am

acourtjester wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 12:13 am
There are all types of YouTube videos about using one of these laser for making money.
I am looking forward to experimenting with this X-Tool machine. I am wondering ... If you can laser etch surfaces, has anyone tried to powder coat a metal piece, and then come back to laser etch the powder coat with fine detail?

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by acourtjester » Sun Jul 24, 2022 1:07 am

Here are 2 business card size aluminum plates I bought from eBay I think they were power coated that I etched.
DSCN5127.JPG
https://www.ebay.com/itm/393792385081?_ ... %3A2047675
Here is a video of a guy color filling laser etched wood but he used a CO2 laser more power than diode lasers.

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by Joe Jones » Sun Jul 24, 2022 1:30 am

Those cards look like they are anodized aluminum. I have some of those for the first laser I bought. They work great for testing. I am HOPING that I can adapt the X-Tool rotary attachment to the other laser. Maybe not ... :roll: Anyway, I would like to find a source for LARGE plates of anodized aluminum. I can only find small pieces, like business cards, and dog collar tags, and such, and they aren't cheap.

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by bhamer62 » Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:02 pm

Joe, you can try here or just have sheets the size you want delivered to you local anodizing shop.....

https://www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy/ano ... heet-plate

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by Joe Jones » Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:27 pm

bhamer62 wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:02 pm
Joe, you can try here or just have sheets the size you want delivered to you local anodizing shop.....

https://www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy/ano ... heet-plate
Thank you! I will look into this for sourcing metal after I go trough the learning curve of the laser, and get a few other pressing projects done.

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by bhamer62 » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:31 am

Joe, I have a 60w AP Lazer at home I play with. I have done a lot of photos on wood, glass, mirrors, slate, granite....... I'll try bout anything.... I also use powder coat as a color fill on wood and acrylic sometimes....
IMG_1592.jpg

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by Joe Jones » Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:47 am

robertspark wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:38 pm

all lasers degrade and need to be replaced at some point
That brings up a question ... Since I bought this X-Tool machine with the extended frame, the air assist and the rotary tool, the laser will probably die at some point. I know that when you go back to a company (n) years later to replace something, sometimes they no longer MAKE the thing you need, or the company no longer exists.

so I am thinking of buying one, or even two additional 4-diode 20 watt laser heads for this machine NOW, in anticipation of the NEED for them at some point in the future.

How long should I expect a laser like this to work? I know ... it depends heavily on the USE ... 10 hours per day, or 5 hours per MONTH! I am going to ask the folks at X-Tool how many hours of service I can reasonably expect to get out of a laser. Maybe I can get some idea that way.

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by Joe Jones » Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:35 pm

bhamer62 wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:31 am
Joe, I have a 60w AP Lazer at home I play with. I have done a lot of photos on wood, glass, mirrors, slate, granite....... I'll try bout anything.... I also use powder coat as a color fill on wood and acrylic sometimes....IMG_1592.jpg
I am one of those "Try Anything" guys too. It grinds on me, when people start to tell me "It cannot be done." :lol:

In another thread, Robert posted a video, perhaps intended to discourage me from trying to use powder coat for color, or maybe he was just pointing me to the experiments of a You Tuber who has a rep for lasers as he played with melting yellow powder coat onto wood. The laser is too hot ... The laser is too fast ... The material is not heated, so it won't BOND ... The results are dismal at best ... People gave me a lot of conclusions about WHY it won't work, based on THEIR knowledge and experience.

I am reminded of a friend/photographer who was trying to get a photograph of a string of regular light bulbs that were being broken in succession by way of a B.B. passing through them. I stopped by his garage to see CASES of cheap light bulbs, and a Rubbermaid trash can full of broken glass and bulb metal bases, etc. He was a professional photographer, and quite accomplished, but he could not think OUTSIDE of the box.

He told me that he was having an issue with the timing of the shutter and the firing of the gun. All of his test photos either showed all of the bulbs destroyed, or maybe only one or two destroyed with the others intact. He wanted a photo of ALL of the bulbs penetrated by the B.B. with the first one exploded, the second slightly less fragmented, and so forth to the last bulb in the line JUST being breached. He told me that he has consulted with many "professional photographers" but no one knew how to get the shot.

After I watched him do a few more test shots, and go through another two dozen bulbs, I asked, "How fast is this B.B. Rifle?" It was a 1,200 FPS gun! I told him that I don't know anything about photography, but I DO KNOW that if you want one bulb to be in pieces at one end, and the successive bulbs to be less and less destroyed, you need to slow down the projectile so more damage can occur to each bulb between impacts.

So I grabbed a magazine that was laying around and fanned out a few pages. I held the layers of paper in front of the muzzle and he tried again. A little better. Another shot with a few more pages added to the thickness of the paper barrier the B.B. needed to punch through before hitting the light bulbs, and it was better still. He ended up making a stand that held sheets of paper from above with a large paper clasp. He used printer paper, and added one or two sheets at a time, until he won the award for the best photo in the competition.

I refuse to accept that powder coat CANNOT successfully be used to color in (not "BOND") to a region if the correct formula is found. Did these other people try FREEZING the powder to slow the melting process? Did they try HEATING the wood plank in a microwave before using the laser to apply the powder?

Did they try to reduce the power of the laser by laying a sheet or two of wax paper or a sheet of frosted glass over the powder, to reduce and disburse the heat from the laser, turning it more into a tiny heat gun? Did they try to WET the powder and burn it as a wet paste? You can blow on a cup of coffee, but water retains heat for a time.

What about mixing the powder with a light machine oil, or vegetable oil, or maybe something like SUGAR or SALT, or shaved ice, or Silicon beads, or ground glass, or Talc powder, or wax, or metal grinding dust, or women's makeup, or chalk dust, or ... or ...?

Has anyone TRIED to use the laser to melt a coating of something that does not harden instantly, and then dusting the wet surface with the raw powder before the substance hardens, to get the color? The powder may stick to whatever was used, and give you brilliant colors! You might not have to melt the POWDER at all.

What about painting in a varnish or a clear coat into the pocket and then trying the powder coat? You don't need to heat the WOOD. You only need to heat (read: momentarily melt) the substance that the powder is resting upon, in order for the powder to stick to IT. The substance has already bonded to the wood.

Oh, no! NONEOF THOSE EXPERIMENTS WERE EVER ATTEMPTED, but the professionals with all of their "real world experience" are tripping over themselves to tell me, Joe! The ADULTS have tried it, and IT WILL NOT WORK! and I am a FOOL for trying. :lol:

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by robertspark » Thu Jul 28, 2022 1:05 pm

I would not waste you money buying another one as a spare as the technology moves on and you will get better lasers in the future

I bought a 2x5w output diode laser I see that now 7.5w lasers are available so you can buy a 2x7.5w now

I have also seen a 4x5w laser available too....

and that is all in a few months.....

so in a few years the technology would have improved

don't get hung up on anything..... use it for its intended purpose and when it does look what the current state of play is as it will be improved

(note bigger is not always better as it is difficult to control the laser at the lower end of the power range if you are trying to burn pictures etc

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by Joe Jones » Thu Jul 28, 2022 1:13 pm

Hmmm .... Good advice. I just don't have a lot of faith in any products made today.

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by bhamer62 » Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:50 am

When you powder coat metal you need to heat stuff up to about 400 degrees to open the pores in the metal so the melted powder has somewhere to grab hold of. Molecular adhesion.... Wood already has porosity for the powder to flow into and adhere.....It's simply a matter of learning the correct feeds and speeds to get your desired results. I use a 4" lens, it has a larger beam diameter and I lower my part about 3/4" below the suggested focal point distance to make the beam diameter even larger yet, creating a larger and softer heat zone. From there you simply use micro adjustments to get a good melt flow and you are in business. I don't call it thinking outside the box, I don't have a box....lol Furthermore, I don't want one.......

PS.... they also make BBB Guns that are in the 600 fps to 800 fps range, but nice way to accomplish your desired effect using what you had available at that moment!!!

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by bhamer62 » Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:19 am

IMG_1723.JPG
IMG_1722.JPG
Powder adhered to wood.....

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by DieselFumes » Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:27 am

WOW Bill, I had not idea that was even possible. Looks amazing, very nice work!

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by Joe Jones » Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:18 pm

bhamer62 wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:19 am
IMG_1723.JPGIMG_1722.JPG

Powder adhered to wood.....
I am in awe! I kind of figured that it would work something like that. DE-FOCUS the laser so it in effect becomes a small, concentrated HEAT GUN.

So my question is, HOW did you apply the powder? did you use a powder gun as normal for a thin coat, or did you lay out a layer of powder like we plaster a wall?

Thank you for showing me this!

Joe

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by Joe Jones » Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:46 pm

bhamer62 wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:50 am

PS.... they also make BBB Guns that are in the 600 fps to 800 fps range, but nice way to accomplish your desired effect using what you had available at that moment!!!
Steve won an award for his shot, a BB through six light bulbs. Sadly, he died early. One of my fondest memories was when he and my good friend and award winning photographer Jim set up a surprise photo shoot for my 55th birthday. I had just purchased a CANON 5D-MK III and all of the accessories, lenses, etc., about $15K of camera equipment. I bought the same setup for Jim at the same time, to help him update his old CANON 40D and 30D cameras, and open up some opportunities for him in his business. So Jim and Steve brought me up to Steve's home where his living room with the vaulted ceiling doubled as a photo studio. Sadly, used camera equipment value drops faster than Bill Clinton's boxers.

There, we spent the day doing a photo shoot with the beautiful former Playboy Playmate and completely awesome young lady, Jessica Vaughn. During the shoot, we had a long conversation. She was studying to become a Psychologist, as I recall. Maybe it was a psychiatrist. My memory fails me again. I have not checked to see if she reached her goal. She was very pleasant and we were all gentlemen, of course. I truly enjoyed the "Catholic School Teacher" costume session in which I was used as an extra. :-o

I had the EYE-Fi card in my camera, so all of the shots were sent to my iPad as I shot. That made it easier for my failing eyes to look at the shots and make adjustments as I was learning the camera controls during the shoot. I learned that I am NOT a photographer.

I cannot post most of those photos HERE, but I would have to check with Jim to see if I can post ANY of them. OF course she signed a Model Release, but I do respect her, so I am not going to flood the Internet with the results, and I RARELY EVER post a photo of my own face on the Internet.

Joe

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by acourtjester » Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:28 pm

In the video on the powder coating, they etched the wood to give a depression in the surface and the sprinkled the powder of the area. They lightly brushed the power to remove any excess with a small amount still in the depressions. They then reran the same etch so the laser only wass on over the original etching. Both these are suing a CO2 laser but the power is dropped down to 13%, now the way length of the laser beam may be the difference??

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by Joe Jones » Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:39 pm

bhamer62 wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:19 am
IMG_1723.JPGIMG_1722.JPG

Powder adhered to wood.....

But ... But ... But ... I was told that this CANNOT be done, and a video made by "The Experts" was posted to prove the point. :lol:

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by Joe Jones » Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:42 pm

Has anyone experimented with putting something into a microwave to apply the powder to a non-metallic surface?

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by acourtjester » Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:53 pm

Microwave can melt chocolate
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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by Joe Jones » Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:16 pm

acourtjester wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:53 pm
Microwave can melt chocolate
I know, but I am wondering if it would melt the powder and lay it down.

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Re: A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

Post by adbuch » Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:44 pm

bhamer62 wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:50 am
and I lower my part about 3/4" below the suggested focal point distance to make the beam diameter even larger yet, creating a larger and softer heat zone.
This reminds me of the Tig brazing I have done. I move the torch further away than for normal welding - so using it more like a "heat gun" to heat the base metal and flow the silicon bronze into/onto the joint.
David

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