Vectrics Cut2D PRO software for Plasma Cutting?

[FazQuaz]

I just noticed that ArcStar CNC Plasma tables are using Vectrics Cut2D PRO software as a combined CAD/CAM. I am familiar with Vectics software being used for routing but not Plasma cutting. How are they getting this to work?

[IBBruin]

I wish Vectric would come out with a plasma plugin for Aspire.

[robertspark]

Post processor?

[tcaudle]

Yes, the POST is the key BUT Vetric Posts are just batch scripting files and only let you use their internal variables and tools. They have predefined functions. You cannot add any parameters to tools and you have to hard code any parameter they do not pass to the post. There is no logic code allowed (IF-FOR-NEXT) no math functions and no way to add an internal variable to use it. So operations like turning the THC on/off at strategic times or setting the target volts or cut current are not possible other than to just hard code it in a function. I wrote a POST for use with Aspire or VCarve for routing since there are no special codes or moves.

So any Plasma implementation will be really basic. That may work for some with simple THCs like the Promo or something that has a total stand alone THC that operates autonomous from the control software.

One of the major strengths of SheetCAM is that the Post Processor is a language (LUA) that you can do anything you want, Even more compelling is the fact SheetCAM lets you define parameters in the POST (stuff you add) and it passes them back to the application for user display and selection. You can add tool parameters , job parameters or parameters in each Opertation.

I find the argument of the advantages of having everything in one application (CAD?CAM?COntrol) interesting. Many years of cutting with Plasma in the heat, the cold , the dust and the smoke has made me glad I can do my design and CAM work in the comfort of my office or on my laptop at home. Having the option to draw, run a toolpath and generate g-code in either place offers a high level of flexibility. I can design in any Windows drawing or CAD program and move it there to SheetCAM or over to the cutting table PC with SheetCAM on LINUX. I understand the fear and doubt about software and the tools and the learning curve involved. An All-in-One solution sounds like the answer, but like a motorcycle with training wheels, its going to try and keep you from hurting yourself at the expense of flexibility. There is always a trade off between ease of use , functionality and options.

[ArcStar]

Getting Vectric Cut2D to work with our plasma tables was extremely simple. As you probably already know, Vectric accomplishes both CAD and CAM in one single program. When you're finished designing (in the comfort of your office), you simply output your work file to USB stick via our post processor file. You then walk the USB stick over to our stand alone controller. It has built in THC, and has plenty of custom parameters with which to customize speeds, heights etc. There are many, many options to modify speed on corners, arcs, circles, etc. In summary, you have the choice to run the controller as basic or complex as you would like - either THC off, or with AVC or Arc Voltage Sampling.
We have found both the CAD and CAM capabilities of Vectric to be nothing short of amazing, and that's why we chose to use it. The overall simplicity and logical layout is better than any other software program we've seen. For plasma, it seems to do everything we need it to - design, trace, nest, lead-ins, overcuts, cut order, tiling, it seems to do it all.

[beefy]

Getting Vectric Cut2D to work with our plasma tables was extremely simple. As you probably already know, Vectric accomplishes both CAD and CAM in one single program. When you're finished designing (in the comfort of your office), you simply output your work file to USB stick via our post processor file. You then walk the USB stick over to our stand alone controller. It has built in THC, and has plenty of custom parameters with which to customize speeds, heights etc. There are many, many options to modify speed on corners, arcs, circles, etc. In summary, you have the choice to run the controller as basic or complex as you would like - either THC off, or with AVC or Arc Voltage Sampling.
We have found both the CAD and CAM capabilities of Vectric to be nothing short of amazing, and that's why we chose to use it. The overall simplicity and logical layout is better than any other software program we've seen. For plasma, it seems to do everything we need it to - design, trace, nest, lead-ins, overcuts, cut order, tiling, it seems to do it all.

I downloaded the manual for Vectric Cut2D and searched for "plasma" in the PDF file. There was ONE occurrence of the word in this sentence:
"Can Vectric software run plasma/waterjet machine tools".
That was it.

I also looked for info on lead ins but all I found seemed related to rotary tool cutting.

So I Googled about Cut2D and plasma and found this from Vectric themselves:
http://support.vectric.com/aspire-quest ... -jet-tools
Can Vectric software run plasma/water jet machine tools?
Vectric software is designed specifically to be used with 3-Axis CNC machines and has not been optimized for use with a Plasma or Water Jet machine, however some users have successfully used it to operate this type of equipment.
Aspire 4.0, VCarve 7.0 and higher include an option to add plasma loops onto acute corners of toolpaths.
We would recommend looking closely at the options available in the Trial Version of each program before specifically purchasing them for use with these types of machines. Another good source of information on how the software has been used successfully is to search the Main Forum.


My eyes and ears are always open to better ways of doing things with plasma but I can't see any evidence of that in Cut2D from what I've seen so far. Perhaps if you could make some tutorial videos comparing Cut2D cam features compared to Sheetcam (plasma related), it would be a little more convincing. Cam is a big part of plasma and I don't see what plasma related cam features Cut2D has.

Personally until I see reasons/evidence to use software like Cut2D for cad/cam in plasma work, I like the flexibility and power I get from a separate cad program and cam software like Sheetcam which has been designed with plasma in mind.

[ArcStar]

Our controller has THC and ARC setting functions built in, so all we need from the software is CAD and CAM functions. For that, Vectric is brilliant. From what we have seen, it has all of the necessary tools one would need for plasma. There's nothing it doesn't seem to have. As a sidenote, we could have gone the same route that everyone else seems to have gone, with separate CAD and CAM programs, such as Adobe Illustrator / Inkscape to SheetCAM or the like. But after giving Vectric an objective lookover, it was the clear hands down winner. It's simple, clean, logical, and does everything we need it to for plasma. As for tutorials, yes, we absolutely have many coming soon, to include a workflow tutorial showing exactly how easy it is to transition from custom part design to cutting. It's good to hear that you're keeping an open mind, is there anything that you feel Cut2D doesn't have that SheetCAM does?

[beefy]

It's good to hear that you're keeping an open mind, is there anything that you feel Cut2D doesn't have that SheetCAM does?

Well, as previously mentioned I cannot find ANY plasma related cam features in the Cut2D manual, and even the Vectric statement I pasted in the last post says their software has not been optimised for use with plasma. And Vectric also say their software is designed specifically designed to be used with 3-Axis CNC machines (i.e. milling, routing, etc).

On the other hand, Sheetcam is dedicated cam software with plasma cutting being one of its' main sections.

One of the first things I look for before buying something is good detailed documentation which shows all the features of the machinery and most importantly HOW the user goes about putting these into action. Unless I missed it I could not find any user manual for your controller on your website and therefore have no idea what cam type features your controller has built in.

I've seen too many manufacturers saying vague statements like this is brilliant, that's brilliant, this is the best. I will accept that when the manufacturer goes into detail, showing exactly what features exist and how they are implemented. Only then can I compare with something else.

My first system was Candcnc and it was their documentation and manuals that sold me. They also have a very active support forum and Tom was/is always there giving technical explanations of how things work. If all I heard was, "this is great, that is great" I would not have been sold.

[ArcStar]

We're simply answering the original post, which was enquiring as to how we were using Vectric with our plasma tables. The answer is that we're not using Vectric to control our table, we're using it for the CAD CAM capabilities only, because our controller handles THC and Arc Voltage functions on it's own. Keep in mind that Vectric is not our product, and we're not trying to sell it to you, so if you don't want to try it, then don't. Our finding was that when we compared Vectric to what everyone else was using, we found the Vectric workflow to be much simpler to use. We think most people would agree that learning a single integrated software program is much easier than learning two separate, disconnected programs. So far, we haven't found anything that Vectric can't do for what we need.

[beefy]

I'm not saying Vectric is difficult to use. I'm simply saying it doesn't seem to have any cam features related to plasma, yet you have been mentioning its CAM features all along as related to plasma cutting.

I have no need to download a trial copy of Cut2D. My interest is plasma and as previously mentioned there is nothing plasma related in the Cut2D user manual. Therefore how easy it is to use has little meaning to me because it seems unrelated to plasma work. I am not arguing that it's cad side may be easy to use, but you have been also flaunting the CAM side when we are talking plasma, and CAM is a very important part of plasma cutting.

The OPs opening question was asking how you are getting Vectric software to work with plasma in a cad AND cam sense. You answered by saying the cad and cam capabilities of Vectric are amazing (we're talking plasma remember), yet Vectric themselves say their software is not meant for plasma and the manual says zippo about plasma, so where is the amazing cam side of Vectric for plasma work. I will query something said if I find no evidence of it. So if all the amazing plasma related CAM side of things is done in the controller, then specify that.

My suggestion is you show people the workflow of operations and what plasma related cam features your controller has, because Vectric seems very lacking in the CAM side of plasma. A comprehensive user manual for your controller would be a good start to show off your system and it's capabilities.

[Greolt]

I have been using Vectric software for my plasma for some years now.

I have it and am very familiar with it.

Is it comparable to Sheetcam? Certainly not as it relates to plasma.

Does it do all that I need? Yes.

It certainly has lead in and out.

Any material that I cut has kerf width and speed of travel set up in the tool library.

I call M codes in the post processor that pull values I set on the controller front page. (presently Mach3, changing my plasma to UCCNC)

Such as pierce height, pierce delay. It also takes care of touch off.

Vectric also recently wrote some PP code for a Vectric user, to allow touch offs to only occur after traveling a certain distance, rather than every new pierce.

If you are looking to purchase plasma specific CAM, buy Sheetcam. No brainer.

If you already own Vectric product and want to use what you have, then give it a try. It might do all you want.

[sphurley]

I too have been using Vectric for years. I design in it, select the vectors I want to export, (DXF or SVG) then use sheetcam for G-code.
It is much better suited for 3D router which I also use it for but it works fine for 2D.

[ArcStar]

Specifically, we have found Vectric Cut2D PRO to do the following CAM functions quite well:
Kerf Width
Cut Speed
Adding Cut Paths
Adding / Editing Start Points
Lead-ins, Lead-Outs
Overcuts
Tiling
Paneling
Manually or Automatically choosing Cut Order
Nesting - Both simple and complex, ie allowing rotation of parts, parts inside parts etc.
Building arrays of duplicate parts

Vectric has produced lots of very well produced tutorials detailing how to do these things. We found the nesting and array functions extremely easy to use. We agree that Vectric doesn't currently control THC, AVC, speed adjustments for small circles, speed transitions from straight to arc segments etc. But for our needs, none of that mattered, because our controller handles all of the speed and height functions for us.

Again, Vectric is not our product, we're not trying to convert anyone, we're simply sharing our observations after spending over two years extensively searching for the best product that worked for what we're trying to accomplish. Our goal was to find the best value CAD CAM software package considering functionality, cost, ease of use, and was NOT a subscription based or $$ upgrade required program.

[beefy]

Great information, thank you Arcstar and everyone else.

Arcstar, forgive my "pushiness" but I have been the victim of a manufacturer who loves to say his product is this and that, but is not so great at explaining how/why, and is terrible on instructional material that shows you how to set up and use the product.

Because of the extra information the last few posts have actually spiked a little interest in Cut2D pro. As mentioned earlier I'm always open to easier / better ways of doing thing. I currently use Coreldraw but my latest upgrade experience with them has left me feeling they are somewhat unethical. After upgrading for a price of A$310, I found out their DXF export is somewhat broken when working with layers and it appears to have been this way since at least version X7 (I was using X5 where it worked). After a long time of very frustrating "chat" with Corel support (for want of a better word) I finally get a reply saying it will not be fixed anytime soon. Great software, I upgrade to get a broken product.

I see Cut2d offers an unlimited time trial, much better than the usual 30 days. I also see the software works with layers, something I often make a lot of use of. And their upgrade prices are about half the price of Coreldraw upgrades.

It also looks like Cut2d can can export as DXF so wherever I find the plasma related cam falls short, I can simply transfer the file to Sheetcam.

The only problem I'm having is finding any plasma related tutorials on Cut2D.

[ArcStar]

We understand completely, and you have a right to be skeptical. From what we've seen, nearly all companies claim their software / table is "the best and easiest to use", so why should you believe us just because we say so? We get it.

Your post reads "show people the workflow of operations and what plasma related cam features your controller has". That's exactly what we're working on right now. Currently we're finishing the scripts on nearly twenty video tutorials. We have two dedicated studios to shoot in, one for the software tutorials, and one with the plasma table. We finished our first video 2 weeks ago, and our goal is to shoot/edit/produce a new video every month. Subject matters include workflow examples, software tutorials, what makes a great plasma table, etc.

As for the merits of Cut2D PRO, obviously we really like it, but that's mostly because of how well it pairs with our controller. As mentioned before, our controller handles all of the speed equations and height functions no matter whether the 'part' being cut comes from within the controller library, or was designed by an external CAD program. So truthfully, it really depends on what sort of control system you have for your table. If your control system requires the CAM program to pass along THC or speed restrictions - like slow down for corners > X degrees, or for circles smaller than Y diameter, then Vectric (by itself) might not be the best choice for you.

As for finding tutorials, best way to find them is if you download the trial software, on the top left menu bar, select 'Help > Video Tutorial Browser' and it redirects to a whole bunch of relevant videos. There's an entire section on 'Vector Drawing' and further down the page, there's another area titled '2D Toolpaths'. If you can figure out Corel Draw, you'll have no issue whatsoever learning Cut2D. It really is that easy.

[ArcStar]

One more thing we forgot to mention. It was mentioned that one of the strengths of SheetCAM was the ability to code variables such as cut speed and height to the exported part file. Unless we're missing something, we don't see this as an advantage. With our workflow, the controller dictates speed and height, not the CAD program. With a CAM program controlling the variables, you need to redesign and output separate files for each different type or thickness of material you plan to cut. With our method, ie the controller having authority over height and speed, you only need to design the part in CAD one time. Once the part file is copied to the controller, it's there forever, unchanged. If you want to cut it out of different materials, you simply select the part, and then type in the new height and speed values via the controller. In this way, you don't have to keep track of multiple copies of the same part, and the part cannot be mistakenly altered.

[Ironken]

Just my .02......if Arcstar is the same guys from DRO Pros, the videos they have produced for their DRO products installation are very good and super easy to follow. I have a table that I am very happy with and tend to shy away from offshore products so I am not a player for their units. That said, they do have a very solid rep in the hobby machining world for standing behind their products.

This is all based on the assumption that Arcstar is indeed part of DRO Pros.

[ArcStar]

04/30/19 Update - We've recently released two more videos. These are the more straightforward and 'easier' tutorials on how to cut and modify parts from the shape library built into the controller. Anticipating releasing a detailed "How to design a custom shape in Vectric Cut 2D PRO and then cut it out on our table" video within the next week or so. Shouldn't be too much longer. So far, we're ahead of schedule on producing videos.

[ArcStar]

05/07/19 - Ahead of schedule and as promised, we just completed our fourth video on 'How to Easily Design and Cut a Custom Part'. This video details how easy it is to design a custom part in Vectric Cut 2D, then cut it out on an ArcStar plasma table. This is a step by step tutorial, and explains the entire process, from start to finish.

[healinhand]

Where would I find the videos?

[adbuch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsZcyM15pUE

[vfauto]

With Enroute it decides if it is a internal or external cut, how does Aspire accomplish this? The only way I see is to do it manually. I have been using Aspire for Woodworking for a few years as a hobby and would rather not use two different software packages!

[adbuch]

Aspire is not necessarily intended for plasma cutting. I use if for cnc routing, not plasma cutting. I would recommend Fusion 360 as an alternative for cnc plasma cutting. Post processors are available that address pierce height and cut height. Lead-ins, kerf width, etc. are all handled with the Fusion 360 CAM package. Free for hobbyists.
David

[Greolt]

With Enroute it decides if it is a internal or external cut, how does Aspire accomplish this?

Exactly the same way it does for a router bit.

[adbuch]

With Enroute it decides if it is a internal or external cut, how does Aspire accomplish this? The only way I see is to do it manually. I have been using Aspire for Woodworking for a few years as a hobby and would rather not use two different software packages!

It is done manually.
David

Aspire cut path 2.jpg (75.24 KiB) Viewed 1632 times