New Pipe and Tubing Cutter In The Works

[adbuch]

I completely understand. Plasmacam is one of those companies that folks either love or hate. I happen to own several of their DHC2 tables, plus a stand alone pipe cutter that I built using the Plasmacam parts. In my particular case, I "love" the hardware/design/software, and am OK with the company. I understand their business philosophy, and have no problems whatsoever with the way Plasmacam has treated me as a customer.

For Joe, this is sort of his personal blog - sort of like he used to have on the old forum. I expect that he will eventually achieve the capability to do some "tube cutting" on the empty oil drums he has talked about. But since he is using Design Edge software and the Plasmacam table, it is hard to see how this will be applicable to other manufacturer's tables and software. But - yes - I agree that it is entertaining to a point. And maybe we will just learn a few things from this "old timer".

David

[djreiswig]

It's kinda turning out like the Curse of Oak Island saga. They keep digging and digging, but never quite find the treasure. But the preview for next weeks episode looks like they might just find it.

[rdj357]

It's kinda turning out like the Curse of Oak Island saga. They keep digging and digging, but never quite find the treasure. But the preview for next weeks episode looks like they might just find it.

Exactly. I’m happy to be proven wrong but the track record here is several seasons long with similar results.

[adbuch]

A washer here, a bearing there - I agree this may take some time. But we will all wait to see where this goes.
David

[acourtjester]

It may be that Joe thinks if I show them, somebody will run with it and solve the problems before he does, and I will lose out on a million bucks.
As stated not many need or use one so not a large market, I built mine for fun and have not used it since. Like many I like the challenge, getting there is half the fun.

[djreiswig]

A washer here, a bearing there - I agree this may take some time. But we will all wait to see where this goes.
David

I quit watching oak island a couple of years ago. And I've got my own pipe cutter design I need to finish. And I don't have a plasmacam, so I wouldn't be able to use it anyway. So we may not all wait and see.

[adbuch]

It may be that Joe thinks if I show them, somebody will run with it and solve the problems before he does, and I will lose out on a million bucks.
As stated not many need or use one so not a large market, I built mine for fun and have not used it since. Like many I like the challenge, getting there is half the fun.

Ageed! Joe was talking about getting a patent attorney, so he must really have something here - and hence the closed lips when it comes to actually sharing his idea. Or maybe he is making it up as he goes along, and doesn't need (or want) our input or help. In any case, I would envision the pipe/drum resting on several rollers, and one or both powered by his Y-axis servo motor. Then he effectively adjusts the "turns ratio" from within Design Edge to match the diameter of the pipe/drum he is rotating. Then and adjustable height torch mount (boom) - raise or lower depending on the size of the pipe/drum being cut.

The stock Plasmacam pipe cutter works very much the same, with the exception that the pipe od is limited to around 13". The turns ratio calculations are already built into the Plasmacam Pipe Cutter program, so you just input the pipe od and it automatically adjusts the turns ratio (resolution) to match the size of the pipe. Also the stock Plasmacam Pipe Cutter upgrade is meant to mount to the plasma table side, and requires physically removing the gantry/carriage assembly from the table and remounting it on the Plasmacam supplied mounts that attach to the side of the table. I bought my Pipe Cutter kit based on the Plasmacam demo video, which I should have paid more attention to. I was somehow under the impression that this was really a 4th axis, and didn't realize until I received the kit and laid out all the parts what was really going on. My mistake for not paying closer attention.

After the first time I removed the gantry/carriage and set up the pipe cutter mounted to the side of the table, I decided that was only something I wanted to do once. Who wants to spend 1/2 hour each way to setup and tear down the pipe cutter. So I ended up buying a spare gantry/carriage/controller from Plasmacam and built a stand-alone pipe cutter unit. I did actually use it several years ago to make some Christmas gift candle holders. I am probably going to use it again here pretty soon to make some more of the same, but with different designs - again for Christmas gifts.

David

[adbuch]

Here are a few photos and a short video of the tubing cutter. This is basically the stock Plasmacam Pipe Cutter upgrade kit in a portable stand-alone form.
David

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0d35rsl51c

Stand-Alone PlasmaCAM Tubing Cutter 4.jpg

Stand-Alone PlasmaCAM Tubing Cutter 2 - Copy.jpg

Here are the finished candle holders I was cutting from the steel tube. I should have been cutting at a faster speed with my corner acceleration setting set to a lower value, but I didn't know about that then. Robert Johnson was the one who pointed that out to me several years ago.

Christmas Candle Holders.jpg

[Joe Jones]

I am still waiting to see some pictures on the development of this tube cutter (out of curiosity, don't need one, won't be buying one..... but it's interesting to see how others solve problems)

If YOU were developing something with the thought of actually SELLING the idea, and you did not hold a patent on it, would YOU make drawings, and sketches, and photos readily available to people who own the very machines that can be used to make it themselves? I didn't think so.

Steve Jobs had less hype with the first iPhone being released and musk too with the much behind programme at the time Tesla 3.... tauted to be the next module T ford equivalent for the masses entry into electric cars.

Seriously? ONE thread on Plasma Spider is "more hype" that Jobs put into the first iPhone? I'm not running "MY PILLOW" style ads!

clearly this tube cutter has got to be cutting edge (pun intended) and innovative like never seen before...

enough yabbering about wrong / incorrect parts selected and more parts awaited

show us some pictures!!!!!

Don't put words into my mouth. I didn't say that. I said it is far removed from the PlasmaCam offering, and it has a larger capacity, it is easier to set up and take down, it does not require partial disassembly of the PlasmaCam table, and it will be able to cut extrusion, and route wooden columns, etc. You can also mount other things like paint pens and blue lasers to it. It can also be fairly easily adapted to any other machine brand.

there are clearly a number of us following these threads and Joe has us hooked.

show us some development

I have divided the current design into two configurations; Table mounted, and a free standing floor design on wheels. The rollers are over 12 feet long and 3" in diameter. Currently, I am looking for a solid, reliable and RIGID track system for the crane arm. I contacted 80/20. There is a rep up in Bowling Green. I will drop in on him this week to discuss which components will be needed. Hopefully he will have a few 10-foot T-slot extrusions in stock for me to play with. Otherwise I will have to take a road trip to a Menard's where I saw this stuff in stock. That will be a two -day trip.

When the 75-tooth aluminum belt pulleys arrive, I have to take them to a machine shop to make them fit the 3/4" roller axles. I am making one for my 510 table and one for my 4x4 table, so everything is double the work. However, if I go the floor model on wheels, the single design will work for either table ... and for a Go Torch too

Also, I have added a lathe attachment that will let you spin large rounds of wood, or plastic (acrylic cylinders, for example) and other things. So if you want to use a green paint pen to draw an elaborate vine along and around a wooden column, you can do it with my machine.

I will tell you that neither the gantry motor nor the carriage motor move at all. The table's gantry and carriage are not used. The backing plate and Z motor are replicated at the end of the crane arm.

Add in the ability to slice a cylinder like a loaf of bread. So you have a 24" diameter cylinder, and you need 60 24"x2" RINGS. My cutter will handle that

You want development? Here are two images that resemble the design concept although mine is not nearly so "heavy duty."

CARPET ROLLER.jpg

CARPET CUTTING MACHINE 2.jpg

[Joe Jones]

For Joe, this is sort of his personal blog - sort of like he used to have on the old forum.

People ask questions. I answer them. Does that make it a BLOG? Perhaps I should introduce other subjects into this thread. Then you will shout, "STAY ON TOPIC!" so when I STAY ON TOPIC you say it is a BLOG.

I expect that he will eventually achieve the capability to do some "tube cutting" on the empty oil drums he has talked about. But since he is using Design Edge software and the Plasmacam table, it is hard to see how this will be applicable to other manufacturer's tables and software. But - yes - I agree that it is entertaining to a point. And maybe we will just learn a few things from this "old timer".

David

I am making the cutter, that is CURRENTLY being driven by PlasmaCam servo motors. Originally, it was to be driven by ONE servo motor. Now it has evolved into a machine that will use TWO PlasmaCam servo motors. These motors will be able to be swapped out for your NEMA 23 stepper motors or whatever YOU will use to drive your tables' X and Y axis. You would also use your motor for the Z axis, I am looking into using a worm gear for the crane arm, rather than belts or chains.

Joe

[Joe Jones]

It's kinda turning out like the Curse of Oak Island saga. They keep digging and digging, but never quite find the treasure. But the preview for next weeks episode looks like they might just find it.

Exactly. I’m happy to be proven wrong but the track record here is several seasons long with similar results.

That is the difference between advertising a finished product ready to ship, and "sharing" (that is such a 'California' word ) the thought process and the progress from napkin sketch to finished product with people who are most likely interested in it. I would not put up a thread here about grooming poodles, or refinishing pianos. In the words of Steve Martin ... Well EXCUUUUUUSE MEEEEE!!! for including you folks in the process.

Joe

[Joe Jones]

Here are a few photos and a short video of the tubing cutter. This is basically the stock Plasmacam Pipe Cutter upgrade kit in a portable stand-alone form.
David

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0d35rsl51c

Stand-Alone PlasmaCAM Tubing Cutter 4.jpg

Stand-Alone PlasmaCAM Tubing Cutter 2 - Copy.jpg

Here are the finished candle holders I was cutting from the steel tube. I should have been cutting at a faster speed with my corner acceleration setting set to a lower value, but I didn't know about that then. Robert Johnson was the one who pointed that out to me several years ago.

Christmas Candle Holders.jpg

VERY nice! Clean design and PORTABLE! Nice attention to detail! However, it still uses the PlasmaCam gantry tube and the clunky cluster-crunch PlasmaCam pipe cutting apparatus, and I am GUESSING that it is still limited to a cutting length of the gantry tube, and only 13.5" of diameter for the cylinder. Can it cut extrusion? Also, I have never tried it, but I do not believe a router can be used with this setup. I could be wr ... wro ... not exactly right.

You guys have to understand ... I am putting a lot of energy into this. For example, you will be able to use pressurized air or a vacuum pump and a hydrogen torch to change the PROFILE of a pipe, or an acrylic cylinder, in much the same way a glass blower does it. This means you can heat up and either expand or contract a cylinder based on the paths you lay out, whether it is metal or acrylic. Betcha' didn't see that one coming. This will come in handy when you start making spires.

Joe

SPIRES.jpg

[robertspark]

Joe, take a chill pill!

do you have the money to seriously defend a patent?

only the lawyers will get rich on that one, yes some people run for cover when the first solicitors letter arrives.... some will just ride it out.... remember it's up to you to demonstrate the uniqueness of the particular part of a patent you are claiming? not for the other party to show it's differences...

BMW did not manage it with the x5 copy in china.... only fairly recently did jaguar land rover win a copy claim in china over an Evoque I believe, and I'm sure it cost them a fair amount and they probably only won it because they have invested in a manufacturing plant in china.

really how many do you think you are going to sell? 10 20 30 50?.... save your patent money and cash in on a good price point and ride it out till someone comes up with the next best idea.... then maybe adjust your price point....

your money ...... what's your end game, pass it on to your kids, do they feel the same way about it?.... hope someone buys your idea out.... more likely they will adjust your design to avoid patent issues.

rolling a drum or tube on rollers is not unique.... cutting tube with a plasma cutter is not unique.... the bearings and fixings and stepper or servo motors are not unique... the badge you fiber engrave onto it may be unique.... but that is about it

your spires idea seems unique.... is there a market for hydrogen torches and availability of hydrogen.... my local gas supplier doesn't seem to stock it

[Joe Jones]

Joe, take a chill pill!

do you have the money to seriously defend a patent?

only the lawyers will get rich on that one, yes some people run for cover when the first solicitors letter arrives....

You are right. It will be a lot cheaper to call Vito out of retirement.

really how many do you think you are going to sell? 10 20 30 50?....

3,000 ???

your money ...... what's your end game, pass it on to your kids, do they feel the same way about it?.... hope someone buys your idea out.... more likely they will adjust your design to avoid patent issues.

Then comes the knock on the door ... "Joe Jones sends his regards ..."

the badge you fiber engrave onto it may be unique.... but that is about it

Well, the world is chock full of people without morals, that is for sure.

your spires idea seems unique.... is there a market for hydrogen torches and availability of hydrogen.... my local gas supplier doesn't seem to stock it

Who is your local supplier? AIRGAS?

Actually, I am ribbing you just a bit about the spires. But a cylinder that is sealed, and either pressurized or made into a vacuum will change its wall shape when being rotated with a controlled heat source either held at one spot or run along a length of it at a controlled speed. Water or air can be used to cool the surface after the expansion is accomplished. I have worked in several plexiglass fab shops, so I want to add this capability to my device if at all possible. After all, who DOESN'T need a 48" diameter hour glass?

Joe

[Joe Jones]

Here are a few photos and a short video of the tubing cutter. This is basically the stock Plasmacam Pipe Cutter upgrade kit in a portable stand-alone form.
David

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0d35rsl51c

Stand-Alone PlasmaCAM Tubing Cutter 4.jpg

Stand-Alone PlasmaCAM Tubing Cutter 2 - Copy.jpg

Christmas Candle Holders.jpg

I'll say this much for you! You are a brave man, posting photos of your pipe cutter with a controller box mounted to it. PlasmaCam would probably view that as building "another machine" and running it with (presumably) a second seat, while your table is cutting something else. They would probably want you to buy a DE license for your pipe cutter, with the $2,000.00 pipe cutting software upgrade, since the one for your table is not transferrable to another table. They would probably want you to purchase ALL of the upgrades you have on your single DE license ... you know ... the one you use to run your TABLE.

Joe

[adbuch]

I built this stand-alone pipe cutter with the blessing of Plasmacam. I was going to buy an entire additional DHC2 just for parts, but they talked me into just buying the controller, gantry, carriage, and a few additional parts as they said this would be a better route to go and save me some money - which it did. They also said these parts and the tube cutter would be considered as an extension of my existing DHC2 table and I would not need to buy any additional software license, since I can use the same computer with Design Edge to run either the tube cutter or the table. This is simply a way to avoid having to remove the gantry and mount it to the side of the table every time I want to use the pipe cutter attachment, which by the way I have only used on several occasions in the 5 years I have had it.
David

[adbuch]

By the way, I have my Plasmacam control PC mounted to a cart so I can easily move it from table to pipe cutter. The pipe cutter is also portable with casters. This is a hobby shop, and not a production facility - at least as far as cnc plasma cutting goes. I usually only use the table every several months, usually for small projects or gifts for family members.

Stand-Alone PlasmaCAM Tubing Cutter 1.jpg

Stand-Alone PlasmaCAM Tubing Cutter 6.jpg

Out in the machine shop it is a different story - as I do have and use large CNC machining centers for manufacturing and production of the metal working and shaping tools, tooling and machine kits that I do manufacture and sell to my many customers world wide.

David

cnc machines 2.jpg

cnc machines 1.jpg

lathe.jpg

[Joe Jones]

I built this stand-alone pipe cutter with the blessing of Plasmacam. I was going to buy an entire additional DHC2 just for parts, but they talked me into just buying the controller, gantry, carriage, and a few additional parts as they said this would be a better route to go and save me some money - which it did. They also said these parts and the tube cutter would be considered as an extension of my existing DHC2 table and I would not need to buy any additional software license, since I can use the same computer with Design Edge to run either the tube cutter or the table. This is simply a way to avoid having to remove the gantry and mount it to the side of the table every time I want to use the pipe cutter attachment, which by the way I have only used on several occasions in the 5 years I have had it.
David

Amazing. I told PlasmaCam the exact same thing when I purchased an additional gantry, carriage and controller box, and told them I was going to build a stand alone pipe cutter. They told ME that that I must purchase another DE license for the "second machine" since it would be potentially possible for me to run TWO machines off of the same Full Monty license, by running a second (and third, and fourth ...) machine SIMULTANEOUSLY with the additional seats I purchased.

Imagine PlasmaCam telling me something completely different than they told you.

Joe

[Joe Jones]

By the way, I have my Plasmacam control PC mounted to a cart so I can easily move it from table to pipe cutter. The pipe cutter is also portable with casters. This is a hobby shop, and not a production facility - at least as far as cnc plasma cutting goes. I usually only use the table every several months, usually for small projects or gifts for family members.

Golly. So do I. Odd, how when I bought my DHC2 table from a couple in Florida, PlasmaCam contacted me and told me they wanted me to purchase ANOTHER Full Monty license for the 4x4 table, since that table only had two upgrades on the license activated for that table, and they were certain that I would violate the License Agreement and use my extra seats to run the 4x4 table as a Full Monty setup.

When I bought my second Samson 510 table from a guy in New York, PlasmaCam contacted me and told me they wanted me to purchase ANOTHER Full Monty license for the second 510 table, since that table only had one upgrade on the license activated for that table, and they were certain that I would violate the License Agreement and use my extra seats to run the second 510 table as a Full Monty setup.

IN FACT, when I later bought two GoTorch machines from them off of eBay for $2,999.00 each before they tried that "$4,999.00 Regular Price marked down to $3,999.00" stunt , I got the same call, asking me when I was going to buy TWO MORE Full Monty licenses, one for each of the GoTorch machines, since they only came with BASIC MACHINE software and they were certain that I would violate the License Agreement and use my extra seats to run the two GoTorch machines as Full Monty setups.



But YOU claim that THEY GAVE YOU THEIR BLESSING to set up a stand alone pipe cutter equipped with a gantry, and a carriage, and another controller box, and they never asked you to buy another license of equal level to your table license for the pipe cutter.

Amazing.

Joe

[acourtjester]

Funny Joe did you pay the original producer to alter the Video (sorry the devil made me say that)
From the above comments it depends on when and who you talk to with PlasmaCam as to what you are told.
The construction of your pipe cutter using a PlasmaCam controller and software is only a convenience not necessary. In fact it you plan to manufacture it yourself do you plan on paying PlasmaCam for their portion, or develope your own controller and software?

[acourtjester]

David I did watch your video when you posted it back then very nice. Another use of a CNC tool for fun things, I'm sure you got you made that for me when presenting the gifts.

[abmetal]

I LOVE THAT VIDEO!!

Allen

[SegoMan DeSigns]

Joe,

I admire the tenacity you demonstrated pulling this thing off, however posting pics of your idea on the WWW just blew your international patent rights out the window and I believe you only have a year to file the domestic one after the first pic or product is shown to the public.

I have also invented a widget or two and spoke with patent attorneys about them. Anyone can file a patent however most are shot down the first time they are contested as it all boils down to the verbiage and punctuation's used in the original filing.

My widgets were marketed for over a decade as I was the only person that had the specialized tooling to manufacture a quality product so cheap..

Good luck on this..

[adbuch]

But YOU claim that THEY GAVE YOU THEIR BLESSING to set up a stand alone pipe cutter equipped with a gantry, and a carriage, and another controller box, and they never asked you to buy another license of equal level to your table license for the pipe cutter.

Amazing.

Joe

Not a "claim", but a fact. The salesman listed on the invoice is was BEH. Total invoice cost was $4833. Controller was priced at $1995 and listed on the invoice as "New, extra spare controller". Also bought carriage, carriage loader w/ roller, torch clamp with grips, loader springs, main wiring harness, and gantry. This was all purchased back in early 2017. I did ask if I needed an additional license and was told by BEH that this would be considered as an extension of my main table - so no additional software need be purchased. Checking back in my records, I see that I spent over $30k with Plasmacam on new equipment and software in 2017. I think they consider me a good customer.

David

[Joe Jones]

Joe,

I admire the tenacity you demonstrated pulling this thing off, however posting pics of your idea on the WWW just blew your international patent rights out the window and I believe you only have a year to file the domestic one after the first pic or product is shown to the public.

I haven't posted ANY photos or drawings or files of the actual machine I am building. I only posted photos of other machines to help people visualize what mine might end up looking like.

I have also invented a widget or two and spoke with patent attorneys about them. Anyone can file a patent however most are shot down the first time they are contested as it all boils down to the verbiage and punctuation's used in the original filing.

Yes. MANY people learned that lesson while trying to break the DesignEdge patent

My widgets were marketed for over a decade as I was the only person that had the specialized tooling to manufacture a quality product so cheap..

Good luck on this..

Thanks! The machine is morphing into something bigger and better, and YES, the cost to build it is rising at the same pace. I was going to weld a frame together, or have a cabinet made by a local company here in Bowling Green, but as I look at it, I believe it is a prime candidate for an 80/20 project. I would just pass off the 80/20 parts list and let people make mods to suit their own preferences.

I may not pursue any protection. I may just offer it to the PlasmaCam community at large, and to owners of other tables who want to make the necessary changes so it will work with their motors and software. Someone may want to build one from scratch. I may just release the files and dimensions and let you folks have at it.

What I do know is HUMAN NATURE, When you post photos of a project in progress, photos and videos of something YOU hope to develop and sell, and maybe make a few bucks off of it, there is always that one guy who tries to get ahead of it and start designing and producing stuff to pound his own chest in an attempt to steal the idea or to claim that it was his idea.

NO ONE is required to read or follow this thread. I love it when people say, "Joe, you are running a BLOG! you want attention!" The truth is that I am sharing the thought process, and reading comments and making chances and adjustments accordingly. Also, each night I look at my file, and imagine it in operation. This has caused SEVERAL mods, additions, omissions, and upgrades to the original design. I am guessing that the SHOPSMITH 7 tools in 1 came out of the same process.

WHATEVER I produce as the end result, I will offer it to people at some level, and those who like it can build or buy it, while those who want to sit in the mud and throw dirt balls at me will do so, as expected.

Joe