New guy, no CNC experience

For general topics and questions that do not fit into any of the other categories or forums.
Post Reply
nomoreusmc
1 Star Member
1 Star Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:24 pm

New guy, no CNC experience

Post by nomoreusmc »

So I am a fabricator and welder. I am not a computer programmer and I am a cnc virgin. Watching YouTube videos is my experience. I am looking at a few various tables to bring my Fab shop into modern times. I am terrified of the software.

I have been looking at designedge for plasma cam and fusion 360 that comes with the small crossfire table. I know they are drastically different tables, but to be honest I don't know what I don't know. I am not going to be asking much out of the table. I am wanting to get my build quality as high as I can, so I can do higher end auto fabrication and I also like making furniture. So the furniture side I see the art side of the table. I can see that being very cool very fast and fairly easy. What I am wanting to get is where I can design something and have it breakdown it's own cut list and organize stuff on the metal to use the most out of the metal. I am pretty sure that I will need to be able to import other people's files.

My background is in electronics repair including computer networking, but I burned out 10 years ago which is why I went to welding school. I used to write vb script in notepad, but I don't own a PC anymore. When Microsoft changed to Enterprise I gave up. Didn't want to relearn everything. My claim to fame was configuration of radio stations automation systems.

So I guess you are asking yourself why I am nervous about learning the software? Besides the fact of the long time away from complex software, but I am typically a hands on learner, and I have no one to teach me. Once I master it, I will probably push it to it's limits but getting there, flattening the learning curve. I don't want to get a really nice table that I cannot make work and making an ass out of myself in front of a customer.

I have been looking at plasmacam, crossfire, and write cnc. I apologise for not using proper verbage/terminology

Thanks for your input in advance
User avatar
Ironken
3 Star Member
3 Star Member
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:29 pm

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by Ironken »

Here's my angle.....I have a small fab/welding shop based out of my home. I had a need when I purchased my first table (contract parts and assemblies) and went for an inexpensive 2x2 at about $7k without the plasma power source. I figured that anything was better than nothing......right? Wrong! I outgrew it in a matter of a month and spent the next few months trying to sell it and buy a big boy's table. Point is is that I threw away money doing what I did. I would suggest if you are going to do this, commit and go big and feel the pain once.

There are all sorts of people with faaaar less computer experience than you doing this every day. There is a big learning curve but it's not nuclear engineering. This stuff is fairly user friendly and you will get it......it just takes a bit of time.
Old Iron
3.5 Star Member
3.5 Star Member
Posts: 681
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:12 pm

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by Old Iron »

I agree with Ironken, it's the elephant eating theory, start at the beginning and do one bite at a time.
User avatar
acourtjester
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 7770
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:04 pm
Location: Pensacola, Fla

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by acourtjester »

You are like many here that started at ground zero and are doing just fine today. I would suggest you start by getting a big picture of the operations of a CNC table. This will help you have a better understanding about how big a table you should get what are the true nature of the thing you can do with a table. This site has different categories of subjects and a great number of members with different experiences covering software, table, and the business aspects concerning this subject. It will take work on your part but you are not planning a trip to Mars. I would suggest starting with software getting an idea of what you need and learning how to use the different packages. Then look at tables, if you buy a table and cannot use it that will add to your frustration. It is a very rewarding having a table and producing products, and or fun things for your own use. Develop a plans and and move toward a completion, help is here but it is better to ask questions about a single item as you go along. Allow yourself time to absorb information as you learn. Like the saying "today is the first day of the rest of you life".
DIY 4X4 Plasma/Router Table
Hypertherm PM65 Machine Torch
Drag Knife and Scribe
Miller Mig welder
13" metal lathe
Small Mill
Everlast PowerTig 255 EXT
nomoreusmc
1 Star Member
1 Star Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:24 pm

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by nomoreusmc »

I did kinda the same thing with my engine drive welder. I outgrew 3 before dropping the money and time to get a big'n that had a 100% duty cycle.

I have been looking around and I really like the plasma cam table. Everything I read seems to indicate that the software is the easiest to master, and they have been in business for forever, doesn't take 12 piece of software, and minus the software upgrade crap seem like a good company.

Am I looking at everything I need to? With design edge I can't get a copy early to test drive, which is what I really want to do. I am looking at the xp45, because mostly what I do is 1/8in aluminum. Is there a reason to go bigger from the start?
nomoreusmc
1 Star Member
1 Star Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:24 pm

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by nomoreusmc »

acourtjester wrote:You are like many here that started at ground zero and are doing just fine today. I would suggest you start by getting a big picture of the operations of a CNC table. This will help you have a better understanding about how big a table you should get what are the true nature of the thing you can do with a table. This site has different categories of subjects and a great number of members with different experiences covering software, table, and the business aspects concerning this subject. It will take work on your part but you are not planning a trip to Mars. I would suggest starting with software getting an idea of what you need and learning how to use the different packages. Then look at tables, if you buy a table and cannot use it that will add to your frustration. It is a very rewarding having a table and producing products, and or fun things for your own use. Develop a plans and and move toward a completion, help is here but it is better to ask questions about a single item as you go along. Allow yourself time to absorb information as you learn. Like the saying "today is the first day of the rest of you life".
I know you are right, but if I am going to be honest I am a disabled veteran, and I just can't work like I used to. I am kinda planning the rest of my life, and I have a bad habit of over complicating things when I don't have so much on the line much less with the weight on my shoulders.

That being said I have read alot your posts and have learned from them. Thanks
robertspark
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1805
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:43 pm

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by robertspark »

Maybe think about one of those vertical tables? (Never used or know of anyone with one but it may help with getting steel plate on the table via a skateboard type support?

Bigger is not always better (neither is more expensive.... But I'm biased and don't live in a country with a load of quality table manufacturers that sell as plug and play)
User avatar
acourtjester
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 7770
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:04 pm
Location: Pensacola, Fla

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by acourtjester »

Understand maybe these would help with moving material around. ;) check out the 2 videos posted by Sean P.
https://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic. ... 09#p115109
When looking for a table that comes with a software package some are restrictive as to loading some files or sharing with others. :(
DIY 4X4 Plasma/Router Table
Hypertherm PM65 Machine Torch
Drag Knife and Scribe
Miller Mig welder
13" metal lathe
Small Mill
Everlast PowerTig 255 EXT
User avatar
Ironken
3 Star Member
3 Star Member
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:29 pm

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by Ironken »

robertspark wrote:Maybe think about one of those vertical tables? (Never used or know of anyone with one but it may help with getting steel plate on the table via a skateboard type support?

Bigger is not always better (neither is more expensive.... But I'm biased and don't live in a country with a load of quality table manufacturers that sell as plug and play)

BE VERY CAREFUL! Purchasing a vertical table. Burntables is all that I know of that makes them. Do a search for them on here......you'll see what I am talking about.
User avatar
djreiswig
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1929
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:02 pm
Location: SE Nebraska

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by djreiswig »

I started at zero. I saw a cnc plasma table at a machinery show and thought "That'd be fun.". I did some research and decided that in my opinion plasmacam machines aren't built that sturdy. (Just my opinion, so don't flame me.). I asked around on forums and heard about Bulltear tables. The table and the owner of the company, Matt, got glowing reviews.
I called Matt a couple of times and did some research on my own. I was thinking of going with a smaller table, but since steel comes 4x8, I thought it would be worth a little extra to not have to cut sheets. Now I almost wish I would have went 5x10.
I like the fact that once you buy a table with CandCNC electronics, you don't have to pay for every little add-on. SheetCam updates are included in the initial price. My table has Mach3, but the CommandCNC updates appear to be free as well.
I've done a fair amount of modification, and haven't spent a great deal of money. I think I would be frustrated with a cookie cutter type of setup that is difficult to make your own.
The 3 software process isn't that cumbersome once you get past the learning curve, and there are all of the great people on this forum to glean pointers from.
I'd recommend you visit some shops and look at the different brands of tables and see what you think will work best for you.
2014 Bulltear (StarLab) 4x8
C&CNC EtherCut
Mach3, SheetCam, Draftsight
Hypertherm PM65
Oxy/Acetylene Flame Torch
Pneumatic Plate Marker, Ohmic, 10 inch Rotary Chuck (in progress)
User avatar
SegoMan DeSigns
3.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
3.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 822
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:45 pm

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by SegoMan DeSigns »

How does the saying go about the outhouse?

It's only ankle deep if you dive in head first!

A minimum cut size is 4x8 or you will waste time processing material before it can be loaded and cut on a smaller table. The first thing you need to do is decided what drawing software your going to use:

Sheet cam is free, coreldraw has a student / home version priced just right. Adobe illustrator I'm not sure about as I don't use it.

Go to youtube and search for those programs as there is many tutorials on how to use them. Get somewhat proficient with them then move to the next step of buying a machine..
nomoreusmc
1 Star Member
1 Star Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:24 pm

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by nomoreusmc »

Those loading tools seemed sweet.i love the simple stuff. Elegant is always better. Although I am planning on a overhead hoist on an I beam. I am a fabricator, I build everything I can, it's cheaper and I get what I wanted and I can fix it.

I don't have a sheer so I was planning on making a 4x4 cart so I don't have to cut the sheets. The thing is, never actually done it.... I have the curse of the engineer.. I plan it all out in detail and it never actually works out. The jump to 4x8 is just so expensive. Maybe I should just see if they will finance me and be done with it.
robertspark
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1805
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:43 pm

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by robertspark »

If you like building stuff why not build a table then you can build these any size you want at they don't cost the $$$$

The tables can also be extendable if you need simply by changing two rails and two belts or adding more rack

https://www.instructables.com/id/CNC-Plasma-Table/

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=plasm ... TkRsui_qqM

https://makezine.com/2016/08/29/cnc-plasma-cutter-3000/
nomoreusmc
1 Star Member
1 Star Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:24 pm

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by nomoreusmc »

I am planning abuild but I was planning on learning how to use/lose my virginity on a commercial model. Then build one that has big motors/better electronics/fully welded. I haven't started it yet because I am remodeling my house for a move to Colorado. I have to get out of this humidity. But I plan on making the base at about a ton so I can push the big tq of the bigger motors and it still be Rock solid and don't want to move it.

Secondly, my ignorance is still too high to do the research and see thru people sales skill/what's best for my project. I guess I just have been lied to too much to trust a salesman anymore.
User avatar
acourtjester
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 7770
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:04 pm
Location: Pensacola, Fla

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by acourtjester »

HI nomoreusmc
I sent you a PM from this site :)
DIY 4X4 Plasma/Router Table
Hypertherm PM65 Machine Torch
Drag Knife and Scribe
Miller Mig welder
13" metal lathe
Small Mill
Everlast PowerTig 255 EXT
plasmanewbie
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 2566
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:15 am

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by plasmanewbie »

Click on the Hypertherm ad at the top of these pages entitled "Select the right CNC cutting table" or use THIS LINK

Jim Colt from Hypertherm gives some great unbiased advice. Take this guys advice and you can't go wrong.
robertspark
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1805
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:43 pm

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by robertspark »

plasmanewbie wrote:Jim Colt from Hypertherm gives some great unbiased advice. Take this guys advice and you can't go wrong.
Jim has great advice, but its not unbiased. He does have a vested interest by being an employee of Hypertherm and brand ambassador.

He still does have great advice and a lot of experience just it will be biased.
schmaus
2 Star Member
2 Star Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:35 pm

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by schmaus »

A plasma table is almost a necessity in an automotive fab shop. the accuracy and speed is impossible to compete with without one.

There are two very good cad programs that are totally free. Draftsight which is 2d and fusion 360 which is 3d. personally I use both and unless I need 3d for my router, Draftsight is faster and easier. You could download them before purchasing the table and get your feet wet. the drawing program is going to be your biggest learning curve. I'm pretty sure that draftsight is going to be the program of choice for any table you get. the two people I know with Plasmacam tables prefer to draw in a real cad program.

as for table brands personally I would only buy a plasmacam or a table with Candcnc package on it from an established table manufacture Or build it yourself(it takes alot of research and patients to pull off a quality table). I have used Plasmacam, Torchmate, Bulltear and now my almost complete home built table. and I still think I like the plasmacam the best. but I have very little money into my new table and it seems to work pretty good. I only use it for my personal projects so money was the biggest factor for me.
nomoreusmc
1 Star Member
1 Star Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:24 pm

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by nomoreusmc »

Well I have been thinking hard about it and I think I need to get a build going. And I say it'll be about 10 grand cheaper too. I am a welder, with an electronics degree, I'd say I am a good fit for a build. Been talking to courtjester and I am going to jump in head first. I am starting prints and drawings and collecting shopping lists and collecting my thoughts.

Y'all have some cool toy's. I think I am going to stick around for a while.
schmaus
2 Star Member
2 Star Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:35 pm

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by schmaus »

If you are going to build one just keep in mind not to over build the moving part of the gantry. It needs to be ridgid but light.
Also do a lot of research.
nomoreusmc
1 Star Member
1 Star Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:24 pm

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by nomoreusmc »

Well with my background I think the Fab looks easy, motors look pretty standard, regular looking DC power supplies, the boards are all new to me, and the software is looking alot easier than I thought it would be. Overall I think the more I learn, the more things are pretty common sense. All that being said, I am going to cheat and make a copy of a working table. I plan to tinker with a bunch of software and just use what I feel most comfortable with. I am starting some incskape and turbo cad tutorials. I salvaged a laptop from my daughter, she forgot she had it.

Overall I am really looking forward to seeing this thing take form. And special thanks to courtjester who's guidance has been nothing short of heroic. With his guidance I think I can get this table together and running just as fast as I can get the parts/money together. Or I am going to crash and burn and post a video of me throwing parts and pieces. At a minimum should be good for a laugh!! LOL

I have so much to learn
robertspark
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1805
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:43 pm

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by robertspark »

suggest a read of this thread may be of use for your consideration as there are some nuggets in there to at least consider / be aware of when comparing other controller options:
https://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=27023

plasma is all about acceleration, which means lightweight.

Target acceleration tends to be around 0.3G or better {quicker} for low end plasma {~3000 m/s/s or ~115 "/s/s}
wheelinxjs
1/2 Star Member
1/2 Star Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by wheelinxjs »

I just received a Langmuir, it's pretty good value for what it is and can be modded to a larger size, after that I will be building a larger table from one of the kits or scratch. I am sure many here have home built units. they are the best value in my opinion, but I needed something to get my feet wet.
User avatar
tnbndr
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1669
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:30 pm
Location: New Berlin, WI
Contact:

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by tnbndr »

I don't have a sheer so I was planning on making a 4x4 cart so I don't have to cut the sheets. The thing is, never actually done it.... I have the curse of the engineer.. I plan it all out in detail and it never actually works out. The jump to 4x8 is just so expensive.
If you're going to cart a full sheet may as well go larger table. The expense is not that great as the expense of these tables is in the electronics. The steel to build a table a bit larger is very little. Just go to a manufacturers site and compare price difference from 4x4 to 4x8, its not double or it shouldn't be.
Dennis
LDR 4x8, Scribe, DTHCIV
Hypertherm PM45, Macair Dryer
DeVilbiss Air America 6.5HP, 80Gal., 175psi, Two Stage
16.9scfm@100psi, 16.0scfm@175psi
Miller 215 MultiMatic
RW 390E Slip Roll (Powered)
AutoCAD, SheetCAM, Mach 3
http://ikescreations.com
User avatar
SegoMan DeSigns
3.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
3.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 822
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:45 pm

Re: New guy, no CNC experience

Post by SegoMan DeSigns »

Here is some more transfer bearing options:

https://www.vxb.com/Ball-Transfer-Units ... -s/316.htm
Post Reply

Return to “CNC Plasma Cutters General Forum”