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Laser Engravers...

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rdj357
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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by rdj357 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:12 am

That’s wild, I have no idea why it’s backward LOL

I recently started using Vimeo to host videos like this - maybe something was checked that shouldn’t have been. Odd that it’s right in the thumbnail then backward when it plays!? I’ll send in a ticket with Vimeo and see what they say….

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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by adbuch » Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:19 am

rdj357 wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:12 am
That’s wild, I have no idea why it’s backward LOL

I recently started using Vimeo to host videos like this - maybe something was checked that shouldn’t have been. Odd that it’s right in the thumbnail then backward when it plays!? I’ll send in a ticket with Vimeo and see what they say….
Thanks Robert! I wasn't sure if it was intentional as part of the process or not.
David

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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by cstroke » Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:50 am

You must be selling an incredible amount of mugs, congrats...
We are basically still getting started and I just want to use this as a small side gig to the metal fab business.. If my body starts giving out I can hoist mugs whether they have 12 oz's of frosty goodness in them or not..
What art programs are you guys using?
I have lightburn that I use, Draftsight, Arbor Image(cutting shop).. that I use..
I have fusion 360, Gimp, and Inkscape that I have but don't use...
I really wish I would have learned corel earlier when I started and same with fusion 360, Now I don't know if i have the patience to learn another program..
Thanks In Advance.
Chris
6’x12’ Dynatorch with a powermax 85
12’ Wysong brake
5’x 5/16’ wysong rolls
3.8’x10’ Pearson shear
65 Ton Edwards ironworks
Boss laser 3655 150 watt CO2.
Quicncy compressor
Misc welding machines

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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by rdj357 » Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:55 am

cstroke wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:50 am
You must be selling an incredible amount of mugs, congrats...
We are basically still getting started and I just want to use this as a small side gig to the metal fab business.. If my body starts giving out I can hoist mugs whether they have 12 oz's of frosty goodness in them or not..
What art programs are you guys using?
I have lightburn that I use, Draftsight, Arbor Image(cutting shop).. that I use..
I have fusion 360, Gimp, and Inkscape that I have but don't use...
I really wish I would have learned corel earlier when I started and same with fusion 360, Now I don't know if i have the patience to learn another program..
Thanks In Advance.
Chris
Thanks, we sold $35k in engraved stainless drinkware last year and we're at $30k so far this year going into the Christmas season where we typically do 1/3 of our annual sales. Drinkware continues to be a top seller year after year. I have predicted a slump every year since everyone HAS to have a ton of them already but I'm proven wrong every single year lol

We use Lightburn, Vinylmaster, and DesignEdge (Plasmacam's software) for our vector work. I can't make Inkscape work for me but between those three we're able to do 99% of what we need. I do use Shapr3d on my iPad for 3d CAD but am not very good at it and may look into SketchUp at some point - we'll see how it goes. I don't have to do a lot of 3d so that's really not been a priority.

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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by acourtjester » Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:32 am

Well Robert its hard to fight success, putting coins in the pocket is what we all are trying to do. :Yay
Software is one of those things we all have ones we use and other not so much. The collective knowledge base on PS helps when a member has questions, someone can help. :HaHa
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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by rdj357 » Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:22 pm

Vimeo cannot explain to me why the video is mirrored. I converted it from a MOV to a MP4 since I kept getting an upload error with the MOV (big ole file) using VLC media player. When I play it on y phone it's in portrait, Windows Media Player after conversion and it's in landscape but not mirrored. Vimeo mirrored it and their support asked for the uploaded file so I tried attaching the 41.5MB file to email and that didn't work so I put it in Google Drive and sent them a link. I swear I played it from Drive and it was in landscape. They replied to me that it was also mirrored and when I played it this afternoon from Drive it was MIRRORED!! UGH. I asked why the thumbnail was correct but the video was mirrored and it's been crickets LOL.

I converted the MOV using convertio.co (highly recommend for anyone needing to convert files from one type to another by the way!) to a MP4 and uploaded to Vimeo again and viola' it's correct!

Jester, that is 100% correct! I'll sell whatever is selling! HAHA

For anyone who watched the previous video in a mirror so they could see it correctly, here ya go. No one? Yeah I didn't figure so.... :HaHa

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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by acourtjester » Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:17 pm

I use AVS Video Editor 9.7 to convert from camera/screen capture to video file for Youtube or Google drive storage and transfering.
https://www.avs4you.com/?ProgID=4&Type= ... omePage_VE
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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by cstroke » Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:20 am

I watched it again LOL..
You have had good luck with the camels??
I ran a test on those vs. yeti..
Both 16 oz mugs, hot water from sink into a pitcher. measured 2 cups out of pitcher into each mug..
Lids on, open slider on each, insert probe from dual probe meat thermometer 1 into each..
Immediately temp in both mugs the same as it should be.
1 hr. later polar camel was 2 degrees hotter than yeti.
2 hrs bot temps dropped camel still 2 degrees warmer.
3,4,5 etc.. same 2 degrees difference with the polar camel being the hotter one.
flipped probes to make sure they were reading the same.. same result the yeti was two degrees colder than the polar camel..
If I remember correctly at the 6 hr mark the water was still around 132 and 130 degrees.
Now I have 1000 dollars worth of misc. mugs on the shelf to sell LOLZZZ>...
6’x12’ Dynatorch with a powermax 85
12’ Wysong brake
5’x 5/16’ wysong rolls
3.8’x10’ Pearson shear
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Boss laser 3655 150 watt CO2.
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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by rdj357 » Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:03 pm

100% of what we sell are the Polar Camels. JDS takes excellent care of us so we use a TON of their product! :-)

Stainless drinkware (as of a few years ago) is all made in one of 3 factories in China (inluding YETI and RTIC). They are produced to the specifications of the company contracting them to be made. So pretty much, they're all very very similar.

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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by cstroke » Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:08 am

Further down that rabbit hole...
So much to learn.
After many videos I've come to the conclusion that even though I thought I needed a MOPA I don't.
It will do some things I want for sure, but right now I'm still better off ripping powdercoating off with my Co2 flat bed and rotary.
Question on the Galvo Co2 which is on your wish list.
You are buying this to get around using the rotary to crank out more cups or to use in conjunction with your flat bed.

Will this mark bare metal???
Thanks in advance.
Chris
6’x12’ Dynatorch with a powermax 85
12’ Wysong brake
5’x 5/16’ wysong rolls
3.8’x10’ Pearson shear
65 Ton Edwards ironworks
Boss laser 3655 150 watt CO2.
Quicncy compressor
Misc welding machines

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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by rdj357 » Sun Oct 09, 2022 4:03 pm

Correct, I want it for 2 primary reasons. First, faster engraving of flat wood and leather/leatherette items like cutting boards and leatherette gift items. Second, faster engraving of tumblers in colors less fit for fiber (red, pink, pastels).

The CO2 with rotary will accomplish both of these tasks but speed is what is needed (and consistency with leatherette like blue/silver that the fiber hates).

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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by cstroke » Mon Oct 10, 2022 8:43 am

Can you mark bare metal with the Galvo co2?
I see guys engraving gun parts etc.. That's more fiber I'd assume.
Mark and engrave are not words that should be interchanged.
Engraving gun grips I'd guess maybe??
6’x12’ Dynatorch with a powermax 85
12’ Wysong brake
5’x 5/16’ wysong rolls
3.8’x10’ Pearson shear
65 Ton Edwards ironworks
Boss laser 3655 150 watt CO2.
Quicncy compressor
Misc welding machines

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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by rdj357 » Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:10 pm

rdj357 wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:18 pm
cstroke wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:39 pm
….
Can you give me the run down on a Galvo Co2 laser.. What does it do compared to Galvo lasers.
The most popular use thus far for ‘Galvo’ has been with fiber lasers. 2 Different things here - one is laser source, the other is control.

A fiber laser typically has a wavelength of 1,060 nm. This wavelength will directly impact (cut/engrave) metals. Glass is transparent to this wavelength.

A CO2 laser typically has a wavelength of 10,600 nm. This wavelength will not mark or cut metal without some special accommodations. Glass is damaged by this wavelength.

Gantry control is implied in most CO2 machines. The use of a laser head that transverses a gantry to move about the table provides X/Y movement. The beam is either emitted by a diode on the head or is routed along the path by a few mirrors and passes through a focusing lens (looks like a pretty small magnifying glass) in the head. Most are stable around 500 mm/second up to a maximum around 1,000 mm/sec.

Galvo (short for Galvanometer) control is usually found on fiber laser engravers. This setup has the beam being sent into a ‘head’ where 2 small mirrors are on servo motors. They direct the beam down through a large F-Theta style lens (looks like a camera lens) to the work surface. Because the mirrors only make tiny movements compared to the movement of the focused beam down at table height, they easily operate at speeds of 5,000-7,000 mm/sec.

The benefits of a CO2 Galvo are the increased speed for engraving. Gantry will always excel at cutting and Galvo in engraving.
As mentioned, the CO2 wavelength laser will not directly mark bare metal. There are products (i.e. Cermark) that make it possible to mark metal with CO2 but it is a chemical reaction with the surface rather than an 'engraving' with any depth as the fiber can do.

The fiber works well on composite plastics and is also used in stippling or engraving gun grips but I believe the CO2 would also be a good choice for this.

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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by Joe Jones » Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:25 pm

cstroke wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 8:43 am
Can you mark bare metal with the Galvo co2?
Here is bare stainless being etched black by a 30 watt fiber galvo laser.

Joe

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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by cstroke » Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:33 pm

Yes, I knew the regular Co2 wont mark bare metal. Was not sure with the "Galvo Co2 if it would or wouldn't.
What brand Fiber did you go with Joe? How long did it take to engrave that??? I thought you mentioned it but can't remember.
Thanks for the answers guys.
6’x12’ Dynatorch with a powermax 85
12’ Wysong brake
5’x 5/16’ wysong rolls
3.8’x10’ Pearson shear
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Boss laser 3655 150 watt CO2.
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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by Joe Jones » Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:52 pm

cstroke wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:33 pm
Yes, I knew the regular Co2 wont mark bare metal. Was not sure with the "Galvo Co2 if it would or wouldn't.
What brand Fiber did you go with Joe? How long did it take to engrave that??? I thought you mentioned it but can't remember.
Thanks for the answers guys.
I bought this 30 watt galvo fiber laser used. It is a Chinese laser from a generic company.

SH-F-30

SH - LiaochengShenhui Laser Equipment Co., LTD.
F - Fiber
30 - Wattage

That was about a 30 minute job, if I remember correctly. I was really surprised at how well it came out. That is just bare stainless, with nothing on the surface to create the black marks.

Joe

Joe
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Samson 510
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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by rdj357 » Mon Oct 10, 2022 8:14 pm

cstroke wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:33 pm
Yes, I knew the regular Co2 wont mark bare metal. Was not sure with the "Galvo Co2 if it would or wouldn't.
Something must be getting lost in translation. Galvo is short for Galvonometer which is strictly the method of control. (How the laser beam is moved around the work surface) The wavelength is what determines what materials the beam is capable of marking/damaging.

Galvo:
galvo.jpg
Gantry:
gantry.png
* No idea why they call it a focusing mirror, that's the focusing lens.

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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by cstroke » Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:09 am

Yes, I didn't understand that part..
I wasn't sure it a hybrid like some of them offer.. It's clearer now LOL...
So just like a fabrication shop you need a lot of tooling..
6’x12’ Dynatorch with a powermax 85
12’ Wysong brake
5’x 5/16’ wysong rolls
3.8’x10’ Pearson shear
65 Ton Edwards ironworks
Boss laser 3655 150 watt CO2.
Quicncy compressor
Misc welding machines

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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by cstroke » Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:14 pm

Rdj.. I have a quick easy one for you.
Friends company wants a price on a few cases of mugs.
72 items from JDS.. $522. cost.
Engrave time is 6:14 ea..
What would you charge for these.
Running it through what my system is..
Mark up 35%
Cost to engrave @$70/hr is $550.
Total cost of $1255. or $17.50/ mug.
Your honest thoughts on how you would price these? Obviously each area is different and unique just like plasma cutting.
Thanks in a advanced.
Chris
6’x12’ Dynatorch with a powermax 85
12’ Wysong brake
5’x 5/16’ wysong rolls
3.8’x10’ Pearson shear
65 Ton Edwards ironworks
Boss laser 3655 150 watt CO2.
Quicncy compressor
Misc welding machines

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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by rdj357 » Fri Oct 21, 2022 5:31 pm

Looks like we'd be pretty close quoting it with the cost plus method.
My markup is 40% so $522/.6=$870
Laser time is $1/minute so $6.15x72=$442.80
Selling price is $1,312.80 or $18.25 each.

That said - having a brick and mortar store I can't be there to price every job out and really don't want to lol.
We sell bulk orders in quantities of 24 (Most of JDS's tumblers are 24/case - some are 12 but I still do volume discount in 24's)
The retail price in our store is $24. This is for a single, unique design on one side - be it a name, clipart, trace, whatever. Add a name on the other side is $2 or add $5 for another full design on the other side.
1 case is 10% discount
2-4 cases is 20% discount
5+ cases is 30% discount

So in your example above, we'd be at $1,728 minus $345.60 = $1,382.40 or $19.20 each.


Just a little side note as well - I notice you said your markup is 35%. I love math, wanted to be a math teacher so please forgive me for this! :HaHa Many times we as business owners use terms like mark-up, overhead, and profit. If, for instance, based on my sales last year I spent 20% of my revenue on fixed overhead and wanted a 15% profit, I'd need to mark up the costs 35%. Unfortunately, multiplying by 1.35 doesn't give you a 35% markup. For example, let's say your cost is $100 and you sell it for $135. If your overhead (as a percentage of sales) was 20% then you'd need $27 to pay for overhead (rent, insurance, etc.) $135-$27=$108 so you have $8 left. As a percentage of total sales that's a 5.9% net profit margin instead of 15%. With that in mind, always use division. Take your desired gross profit margin (35%) and subtract it from 1 to get your divisor.

1.00 - 0.35 = 0.65

So take your cost divided by that divisor to get your selling price. $100/0.65 = $153.85 so now you have 20% for overhead ($30.77) which leaves you $23.08 after paying the $100 direct cost. To verify your profit margin, $153.85 x 15% = $23.08

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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by cstroke » Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:01 am

LOL, I read this at 5:30 am and lets just say my coffee was not kicked in..
And yes I understand what you are saying.
Thank you for your input as I know I'm on the right track.
I've seen quite a few people on facebook etc.. charging 10 bucks a mug just for the engraving, not sure how they mark up the mugs and it seemed high. But I don't know their details are they not marking up the mugs or only 10% etc..
Thanks again
Chris
6’x12’ Dynatorch with a powermax 85
12’ Wysong brake
5’x 5/16’ wysong rolls
3.8’x10’ Pearson shear
65 Ton Edwards ironworks
Boss laser 3655 150 watt CO2.
Quicncy compressor
Misc welding machines

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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by rdj357 » Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:46 am

HAHAHA I apologized in advance :-P

No problem - any time!

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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by cstroke » Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:36 am

How stupid busy are you guys this time of year??
6’x12’ Dynatorch with a powermax 85
12’ Wysong brake
5’x 5/16’ wysong rolls
3.8’x10’ Pearson shear
65 Ton Edwards ironworks
Boss laser 3655 150 watt CO2.
Quicncy compressor
Misc welding machines

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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by rdj357 » Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:35 am

Our sales are down compared to the past few years but still pretty hopping! I’ll have to see where we fall when the dust settles after the new year but I expect our Christmas sales to be down by 1/3 - 1/2. Hopefully there’s a rally in December! We need, as a company, to do a better job with online marketing and sales and that will be our focus in the new year to get shifted away from such heavy reliance on the brick and mortar.

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Re: Laser Engravers...

Post by cstroke » Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:51 am

My business focus is mostly a fabrication shop, I make signs because I like to make signs. I doubt I am profitable with them.. The balance for me is doing what I enjoy but not enough that I don't enjoy it. I never advertise so everything is word of mouth..
I have had a facebook page for 3 years+ but have never launched it. I'm afraid of getting too busy and pissing people off. Plus I always think of launching it this time of year which would be horrendous.
I am enjoying the laser stuff and it seems to be as profitable as some of the metal working.
The trend I'm starting to see is everyone is raising their rates for fabrication which might make me keep my focus there.
UGGHHH first world problems, but always better to be busy...
6’x12’ Dynatorch with a powermax 85
12’ Wysong brake
5’x 5/16’ wysong rolls
3.8’x10’ Pearson shear
65 Ton Edwards ironworks
Boss laser 3655 150 watt CO2.
Quicncy compressor
Misc welding machines

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