Langmuir tips for newbie?

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BThis
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Langmuir tips for newbie?

Post by BThis »

I'm a welding hobbyist who's dreamt of doing plasma CNC, but since most machines start around $15,000 it has remained a dream. Now I found Langmuir and from reviews here it's actually a credible product despite its low price. So I'm considering jumping in by pre-ordering a Crossfire Pro. I'd like to cut less than half inch mild steel up to maybe 2x4 or 4x4 ft. Not a heavy duty cycle. I've already learned a great deal on this FANTASTIC forum, and I'm very grateful for so many experienced folks sharing your experience and knowledge. But as a total newbie, I have some possibly dumb questions:
-- Some here have dissed Langmuir's recommended torch so I'm considering a Hypertherm 45 or similar. Any recommendations? Or is their bundle the way to go?
-- Any tips on Crossfire add-ons or mods that are required or highly recommended?
-- I'll be doing this in my garage where I weld on one side and do woodwork on the other. I've heard that CNC tables are dirty. Any precautions I should take to protect my table saw, bandsaw and other tools--or that would prevent me from pulling the wife's car in at night after I shut down? How much does a water table help?
-- I use a welding curtain to keep sparks away from the "wood" side. Would I also need an exhaust fan and/or an enclosure?
-- What do you guys use for computers? I work on an old Mac PowerBook - but do I need a Windows machine for this?
-- I'll have to learn the software. What free/low-cost drawing and CNC control software do you recommend? I've used 2D drawing packages like Illustrator, been exposed to AutoCAD, and used Blender a little. Any hints to get a head start other than searching YouTube for how-to videos?
Thank you in advance for any advice. There's so much to learn!
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acourtjester
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Re: Langmuir tips for newbie?

Post by acourtjester »

Cannot help on most but the dust from Plasma is metallic and and can get all over the place, use either a water table or system to duct the residue outside ( which can be messy). There are some free CAD programs like QCAD and others, Inkscape is a very good program which produces both DXF and SVG file formats.
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ctgolfer1
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Re: Langmuir tips for newbie?

Post by ctgolfer1 »

The Langmuir Crossfire table has served me very well since last June.
There are some haters in here but they may feel the low cost table is cutting into their bottom line, may be true on some scale.
Take it with a grain of salt.
I had a top brand plasma cutter before I had a table so I did not face the decision you are facing, from what I read the cutter that you can get with the Crossfire works just fine for most, if you have the cash a Hypotherm is a much better option.
There is some dust with the plasma table but a full water table helps with that, I find all the grinding makes a bigger mess then the table itself. A grinding booth with a shop vac installed would help alot.
I do not have room for the Pro table it looks like it will be fantastic with THC, I would spend that money if I could fit it in my shop.
Consider this: the plasma cutter that comes with the Crossfire is cheap but it is a good tool for your to prove to yourself that this cnc thing is going to work for you. You can always spend the big money on a Hypotherm later and keep the cheap cutter for slicing off things by hand without switching torches.
Just my 2 cents, good luck.
BThis
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Re: Langmuir tips for newbie?

Post by BThis »

Wow, thank you guys for the quick responses! As mentioned, I already do some amateur welding--so the grinder is my friend. ;^> If that's the kind of mess I'll be making I think I can handle it. I'm considering the Pro model with a water table which will help.
@CTGolfer, I like the way you think about getting the low-cost stock plasma torch and deciding whether to upgrade to Hypertherm later. It's sad that Langmuir is back-ordered until June. But that will allow me to investigate the software and practice some. So, if my Budget Director approves the purchase, I hope to be joining y'all in CNC adventures this summer! She's in for a nice dinner this weekend to put her in the right mood...
Thanks for the advice!
ctgolfer1
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Re: Langmuir tips for newbie?

Post by ctgolfer1 »

BThis wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:15 pm Wow, thank you guys for the quick responses! As mentioned, I already do some amateur welding--so the grinder is my friend. ;^> If that's the kind of mess I'll be making I think I can handle it. I'm considering the Pro model with a water table which will help.
@CTGolfer, I like the way you think about getting the low-cost stock plasma torch and deciding whether to upgrade to Hypertherm later. It's sad that Langmuir is back-ordered until June. But that will allow me to investigate the software and practice some. So, if my Budget Director approves the purchase, I hope to be joining y'all in CNC adventures this summer! She's in for a nice dinner this weekend to put her in the right mood...
Thanks for the advice!
It sucks you have to wait untill June.
I would like to suggest that you go to the Langmuir forum and look into the owners map, see if there is someone near you with a machine.
Most all the members in there seem to be really good folks. Contact someone close and ask them if you can watch it run. If your near me I would let you play around with it all day if you wanted to.
Another thing to consider is when the first batch of pros ships completely, there will be many Crossfires for sale fairly cheap I would think. Some guys do not have room for 2, maybe pick up one of the used Crossfires and get your feet wet with that before your Pro ships, maybe it will be enough machine for what you want to do.
I have no idea what kind of bugs they are going to have to work out with the new model but I am not a computer nerd so it is best to let some of those geeks test run the first batch.
rccrazy30
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Re: Langmuir tips for newbie?

Post by rccrazy30 »

-- Some here have dissed Langmuir's recommended torch so I'm considering a Hypertherm 45 or similar. Any recommendations? Or is their bundle the way to go?

I Use the Everlast 50s with no complaints. I actually just saw they came out with a new version of the 50s. You can get away with the handheld torch but If you can afford it get the machine torch and keep the handheld torch for when if you ever need to use the plasma cutter outside CNC

-- Any tips on Crossfire add-ons or mods that are required or highly recommended?
I haven't completed mine yet but someone on the Langmuir fourm has already added a lower shelf to the Pro table as well as a reservoir to hold thw water after your done for the day.

-- I'll be doing this in my garage where I weld on one side and do woodwork on the other. I've heard that CNC tables are dirty. Any precautions I should take to protect my table saw, bandsaw and other tools--or that would prevent me from pulling the wife's car in at night after I shut down? How much does a water table help?
Well If you're getting the Pro table you get the water table automatically definitely something you're going to want to use. The water pan gets dirty but I haven't noticed any residue outside that

-- I use a welding curtain to keep sparks away from the "wood" side. Would I also need an exhaust fan and/or an enclosure?
Using the water table you will get a little bit of smoke but most of it will be steam I used mine near a garage door so i typically will open it when im cutting if I can

-- What do you guys use for computers? I work on an old Mac PowerBook - but do I need a Windows machine for this?
You don't need anything too crazy to run the machine itself Langmuir should have some recommendations on their website. I'm using a dell laptop I picked up used seems to work fine

-- I'll have to learn the software. What free/low-cost drawing and CNC control software do you recommend? I've used 2D drawing packages like Illustrator, been exposed to AutoCAD, and used Blender a little. Any hints to get a head start other than searching YouTube for how-to videos?
Thank you in advance for any advice. There's so much to learn!

Fusion 360 is what most people are using.
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Hole Shot Garage
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Re: Langmuir tips for newbie?

Post by Hole Shot Garage »

I am a newbie myself .. I bought and have setup and running the Pro .. it is a great table for the money .. I also Got the THC and the Razorweld 45 CNC all together and the laptop stand. I will say the laptop stand needs to be a little wider and more stable but it works. I ordered the Table when the pre order opened and finally was able to put it all together about 2 weeks ago .. I am at a learning curve with it but so far very happy .. the Response of customer service at Langmuir is really good if you email a question they will respond , typically within a day. I am in eastern Tennessee, about an hour north of Chattanooga would be happy to let you see mine.. I did put a fume hood over my table just because i run heat in the winter and the shop gets smokey with the doors closed. I have been working on old cars for a while kinda old school thought this would be a way to step it up .. Fusion 360 in my opinion is a pain in the ass .. Langmuir is designing there own cad program and look forward to that .. the Firecontrol software is pretty awesome i really like it ..its very user friendly.. Overall a good experience and would encourage anyone looking for a cost effective hobbyist table this would be my first choice.
OffRoadDevilDog
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Re: Langmuir tips for newbie?

Post by OffRoadDevilDog »

I've owned the original Crossfire for 11 months and it's served me well. I picked it up for $1500 shipped with the water table on a sale and added the XL extension later. I use a Hypertherm Powermax 1000 and it'll cut anything up to 1/2" beautifully with almost no bevel and no dross. But the cut quality is really more about the plasma cutter than the table. If the table moves in the right direction at the right speed, the rest of the cut detail is left to the quality of cutter.

My opinion of the Crossfire Pro is it's priced too high, even at $500 off for the pre order/back order price. It's $3,070 shipped with THC. If you look at companies like Premier Plasma, STV CNC, Wright CNC, etc, they've got considerably better tables out there for not much more money. Better software, linear rail guides/bearings, rack and pinion, bigger motors, limit switches, feed and acceleration rates 2X+ faster, much heavier frames, stronger gantries, break away magnetic machine torch mounts, E stop, Ohmic sensing + arc voltage feedback, etc, etc, etc.

Definitely not hating on Langmuir, I've loved owning their original table, used the hell out of it, and it's let me learn the basics of CNC plasma over the last year at a very affordable price. Their customer support is second to none, they back their equipment 100%, and their forum is full of helpful people. I just feel like the Pro was a swing and a miss. When comparing features to other 2x4 and 4x4 tables, literally nothing about the Pro is ideal other than it's the cheapest.
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Re: Langmuir tips for newbie?

Post by OffRoadDevilDog »

I thought I'd follow up on my post and Langmiur's pricing.... prices have changed! My opinion of the Crossfire Pro's pricing was based on competitors and mainly the 3 I listed. I personally ordered a 5x5 Wright CNC a couple months ago but also considered STV and Premier Plasma which were close in price at the time. Premier Plasma is still closest in price at $4210 plus shipping for their 4x4 but still a ways away from Langmiur's $3070. You get a better table for the extra ~$1600 (after shipping) but both, imo, are priced relative to their features and build. STV and Wright make tables with better features and better software but they both raised their prices drastically. Wright's 4x2 is $5k plus shipping now instead of $3200. And STV's 4x4 is $5k plus shipping instead of last years $4k. Maybe Langmiur saw this coming and priced their table accordingly. Or the market put the Crossfire Pro right where it needed to be.

So my opinion (for what it's worth) has changed. At $3k shipped, the Crossfire Pro is a decent value from a great company. It's not up to par with the bigger rack and pinion tables but it's also not priced as high either. If $3k is your budget, you'll get a nice table that works. It's a flimsy square tube frame with inferior lead screws and tiny stepper motors. But it works great for hobbyists and part timers with limited budget. If you've got the cash, upgrade to a Hypertherm 45xp minimum and if you've still got room in your budget, get a rack and pinion 4x4 table.
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Re: Langmuir tips for newbie?

Post by ctgolfer1 »

Offroaddevildog, nice follow up, as a crossfire owner I agree with you on the pro, a higher quality table can be bought for only a few more dollars. When they have cycled through all the preorders and the are against the raw market they may have trouble going head to head with the other tables......BUT, I read about the crazy prices some places charge for software upgrades and parts. Some of the stories on here are unbelievable. Also the customer service seems to really suck with many of the other brands, just by what I read in the forums.
I am very happy with my Crossfire XL, if I was going to make a living at cutting metal I would want something bigger and heavier duty.
Thanks for the follow up.
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