Mig torch on Plasma Table

All topics related to mig welding, tig welding, spot welders, flame cutting, etc.
Post Reply
34by151
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 4:34 pm

Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by 34by151 »

Has anyone put a mig torch on there plasma table

The reason ask is I have a bunch of parts (50 sawtooth bucket cutting edges) that im cutting that need to be hardfaced with a diamond pattern.
Lots of time and work to do the hardfacing

What Im thinking is use my mig and connect it to the table using a custom torch holder

I can make a jig to control the warp or use the THC
My mig has an output for the volts, amps and a remote start
Not sure if swapping the plasma volts for Mig volts and start signal fro plasma to mig will work
Id have to set the voltage divider to 1:1

Not sure if the rest would work

Has anyone donr this and can you give me some pointers?
User avatar
djreiswig
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1924
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:02 pm
Location: SE Nebraska

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by djreiswig »

I want to try this sometime. I saw a picture of a mig gun on a PlasmaCam table on their flyer. I'm not sure what kind of voltage the mig would return. I'm wondering if it's the same as plasma with the arc gap, I suppose it would be higher as the wire gets further away from the material, but the wire melting might make it inconsistent.
2014 Bulltear (StarLab) 4x8
C&CNC EtherCut
Mach3, SheetCam, Draftsight
Hypertherm PM65
Oxy/Acetylene Flame Torch
Pneumatic Plate Marker, Ohmic, 10 inch Rotary Chuck (in progress)
User avatar
acourtjester
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 7754
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:04 pm
Location: Pensacola, Fla

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by acourtjester »

Ok I tend to look at the simple parts of a project to get things settled in my mind first.
Mig torch mounting fairly simple and as to THC control not needed since your not dealing with warping or uneven metal surface.
Now to the setting up the G-code look at "hatch fill" in Inkscape this gives a weaving pattern for filling a pattern. Just draw out the shape of the item, do the Hatch fill operation, have not Z movements. You will have only X and Y movements for the mig torch, manually fire the Mig welder. If you wanted layers you can plan a G-code similar to how a router or mill makes their cuts. Make one layer completely then move the Z up the thickness of the next layer and repeat the same pattern with the mig torch. :Yay
DIY 4X4 Plasma/Router Table
Hypertherm PM65 Machine Torch
Drag Knife and Scribe
Miller Mig welder
13" metal lathe
Small Mill
Everlast PowerTig 255 EXT
34by151
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 4:34 pm

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by 34by151 »

I dont have any real issues with programming the ZY. Im not an inscape fan but thats just me I use solidworks

Im just looking for info re connecting the THC to the cnc output of my welder and if anyone had tried it
Im sure I could get away without the THC but it would be a lot better with a THC
User avatar
East German
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:21 am
Location: Stapelburg Germany

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by East German »

I built a small welding robot with a Mach3 surface that worked very well.

It was for testing purposes only.

I didn't use the THC, you don't have to.

Peter
Sorry for my language! The last English class was in 1982.

Homemade CNC Plasma-Watertable
MyPlasmCNC
Hypertherm Powermax 85
Machine Torch
Hypertherm Powermax 1100
Machine Torch
User avatar
acourtjester
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 7754
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:04 pm
Location: Pensacola, Fla

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by acourtjester »

Why don't you research robotic welders they use Mig welding in their process. You may find they don't use the Mig voltage setting as you think.
https://www.thefabricator.com/thefabric ... r-managers
DIY 4X4 Plasma/Router Table
Hypertherm PM65 Machine Torch
Drag Knife and Scribe
Miller Mig welder
13" metal lathe
Small Mill
Everlast PowerTig 255 EXT
34by151
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 4:34 pm

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by 34by151 »

Most modes of the weleder are constant voltage but it does have mode that will vary voltage based on torch height (stick out)
I was going to give this a try connected to the THC

Im sure I can get it to work just using the torch trigger but if I can get the THC working it will make multipe pass and crossover applicatons a lot easier

Going to try some experements in the next few weeks. Not sure what will happen but will give it a go
User avatar
acourtjester
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 7754
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:04 pm
Location: Pensacola, Fla

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by acourtjester »

Very good you may find a procedure that will help others, new things are found because somebody tried something different. go for it. :Yay
You may need to test the sensitivity or research what voltage change relates to torch distance. I know it has been posted here 1 volt equals a given distance for Plasma(I don't remember).
DIY 4X4 Plasma/Router Table
Hypertherm PM65 Machine Torch
Drag Knife and Scribe
Miller Mig welder
13" metal lathe
Small Mill
Everlast PowerTig 255 EXT
34by151
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 4:34 pm

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by 34by151 »

If I run the welder in constant voltage mode I can use this voltage to set the pass height.
Can use the thc start to trigger the torch.
Would need to set the the pierce to 0
Touch sensor should be fine to set the initial height

Now in this mode Id have to be carefull when crossing welds beccause the THC would not move the torch up/down
This mode will cause the Amps to vary with torch height
So it may be worth doing some tests (lines and passing over welds) with the current output connected to the THC.
Im not sure what current corosponds to the volts at the port. So it may need a high voltag op-amp to get the correct signal to the THC

The other tests would be to run in variable voltage mode as above and see what happens

I sure I can use the THC to set the initial torch height, run the trorch trigger and lift the torch after torch off.
The answer may be to do the rest in the pathing and disable the rest of the THC functions

Ill start testing soon, post my results as I go
User avatar
acourtjester
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 7754
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:04 pm
Location: Pensacola, Fla

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by acourtjester »

For crossing the line you may see about using a Macro to have the torch lift X distance the drop after the line. This could be programed into the G-code. Contact Les at SheetCam to see if this is possible. As the software looks ahead it knows when it would be crossing a line. This is similar to coming to a corner and slowing the speed to improve the cut.
DIY 4X4 Plasma/Router Table
Hypertherm PM65 Machine Torch
Drag Knife and Scribe
Miller Mig welder
13" metal lathe
Small Mill
Everlast PowerTig 255 EXT
User avatar
djreiswig
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1924
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:02 pm
Location: SE Nebraska

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by djreiswig »

I don't think SheetCam likes crossed paths.
2014 Bulltear (StarLab) 4x8
C&CNC EtherCut
Mach3, SheetCam, Draftsight
Hypertherm PM65
Oxy/Acetylene Flame Torch
Pneumatic Plate Marker, Ohmic, 10 inch Rotary Chuck (in progress)
User avatar
djreiswig
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1924
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:02 pm
Location: SE Nebraska

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by djreiswig »

Any updates on this? I'm curious how it worked out for you.
2014 Bulltear (StarLab) 4x8
C&CNC EtherCut
Mach3, SheetCam, Draftsight
Hypertherm PM65
Oxy/Acetylene Flame Torch
Pneumatic Plate Marker, Ohmic, 10 inch Rotary Chuck (in progress)
34by151
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 4:34 pm

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by 34by151 »

Ended up putting it on hold due to issues with the control system.

Im in the process of building a new table with linuxcnc

The plan is to have a removable mount plate.
I have the Plasma and air scriber mount worked out

Once that's all running Ill deal with mounts for oxy and mig
dtdetail
1.5 Star Member
1.5 Star Member
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:35 am
Location: Kitchener, ON

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by dtdetail »

I'm trying this soon.

Dealing with/fixing/programming/setting up mig robots is my day job.
robots just send an arc start/stop signal, that's pretty much it. (basically robot just pulls the trigger, position is all on the robot side)

I'm going to try some things out and report back.

Cheers
adbuch
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 8580
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:22 pm
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Contact:

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by adbuch »

Dtdetail - I will look forward to seeing what you come up with. How about showing us some photos or videos of your mig robots in action.
Thanks,
David
dtdetail
1.5 Star Member
1.5 Star Member
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:35 am
Location: Kitchener, ON

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by dtdetail »

Wish I would’ve checked back sooner last night, on Monday I’ll grab some nice pictures
adbuch
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 8580
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:22 pm
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Contact:

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by adbuch »

dtdetail wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:00 am Wish I would’ve checked back sooner last night, on Monday I’ll grab some nice pictures
Thanks! I'll look forward to seeing what you are working with.
David
dtdetail
1.5 Star Member
1.5 Star Member
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:35 am
Location: Kitchener, ON

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by dtdetail »

I'm having trouble uploading pics/vids.
i tried posting a video of a bunch of cells running together but i think i gave everyone access to my whole icloud at the same time, so i deleted it.
User avatar
djreiswig
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1924
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:02 pm
Location: SE Nebraska

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by djreiswig »

Upload to a YouTube account and then attach a link to the video. That's what most people do.
Pics you can just resize and post to the thread.
2014 Bulltear (StarLab) 4x8
C&CNC EtherCut
Mach3, SheetCam, Draftsight
Hypertherm PM65
Oxy/Acetylene Flame Torch
Pneumatic Plate Marker, Ohmic, 10 inch Rotary Chuck (in progress)
dtdetail
1.5 Star Member
1.5 Star Member
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:35 am
Location: Kitchener, ON

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by dtdetail »

Here’s one from a while back. This is about halfway down one of our mainlines for a big frame (fed from larger front, and rear lines, which are fed from tonnes of subs).
I’m standing on top of a tool/fixture verifying that a weld is still following the correct path.

For legal reasons, everything I wrote above is a lie and I found this pic on the internet.
12502C90-BCCB-4A42-A208-730E24DDEF33.jpeg

You currently do not have access to download this file.
To gain download access for DXF, SVG & other files Click Here

robertspark
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1801
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:43 pm

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by robertspark »

some interesting robot kinematics here:






PUMA Kinematics? {or maybe 5axis bridge kinematics?}
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man ... ins.9.html

too complicated for my brain....

what post processor would you use to allow for clearance for internal welds with a 5 axis welder?
ok for vertical sides.... but if they are tapered....

quicker for me to just pick up a welder and weld it than programme it ..... maybe I'm just thick! :Like
User avatar
acourtjester
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 7754
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:04 pm
Location: Pensacola, Fla

Re: Mig torch on Plasma Table

Post by acourtjester »

Here is another video with Mig CNC plus Plasma in one :Yay
DIY 4X4 Plasma/Router Table
Hypertherm PM65 Machine Torch
Drag Knife and Scribe
Miller Mig welder
13" metal lathe
Small Mill
Everlast PowerTig 255 EXT
Post Reply

Return to “Mig Welders, Tig Welders, Spot Welders”