New guy help on Cartesian Coordinate

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Buckmaster1967
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New guy help on Cartesian Coordinate

Post by Buckmaster1967 »

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Hello, I am building a 6ft x 11ft plasma water table. Table is mostly completed. Using Masso controller. I am very new at this and learning from scratch. I have the homing set at Z0,X0,Y0. Everything goes to the back left corner. From there my coordinates goes X 0-120", Y 0-64", Z all the way up, 0-4" Is this right? Or do I need to splite the distance and have Orgin in the center with negative at on end? Meaning my home would look something look X -60 Y -32, Z 2.
I uploaded a picture. Any help be appreciated.

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acourtjester
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Re: New guy help on Cartesian Coordinate

Post by acourtjester »

here is how I set my tables up. using the arrow keys on the keyboard when the table is a X0.0, Y0.0 the right arrow key moves the X in a positive direction. When the up arrow key moves Y in a positive direction and the page down moves the Z down. With Plasma Z homes down to home.
these are setup using ports and pins motor output change the low active to move the motors in the correct direction. Along with home and limits set to move the axis to the positions shown.
Understand you can place the torch at any point on the table and then zero out the DROs as a start position for a cut routine (g-code start X0.0 y0.0).
Another thing do not hit "Ref all" with you torch mounted as that moves the torch down to home first and then Y home then X home. This may cause the torch to crash, try it without the torch mounted to see.
cnc coordinate A.jpg

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Buckmaster1967
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Re: New guy help on Cartesian Coordinate

Post by Buckmaster1967 »

acourtjester wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:47 pm here is how I set my tables up. using the arrow keys on the keyboard when the table is a X0.0, Y0.0 the right arrow key moves the X in a positive direction. When the up arrow key moves Y in a positive direction and the page down moves the Z down. With Plasma Z homes down to home.
these are setup using ports and pins motor output change the low active to move the motors in the correct direction. Along with home and limits set to move the axis to the positions shown.
Understand you can place the torch at any point on the table and then zero out the DROs as a start position for a cut routine (g-code start X0.0 y0.0).
Another thing do not hit "Ref all" with you torch mounted as that moves the torch down to home first and then Y home then X home. This may cause the torch to crash, try it without the torch mounted to see.
cnc coordinate A.jpg
Thank you for taking the time to reply. So let's take the X axis. It should start at (0) and run the length of the table. (0- 120") My confusion is where the negative comes in. If home is (0) and my work is at X10, I should never see a minus. Correct?
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acourtjester
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Re: New guy help on Cartesian Coordinate

Post by acourtjester »

Not completely if you put the X away from home and zero out the DROs you can move it in a negative direction and it will show in the DRO as a negative number. If you are using Mach 3 there are 2 sets of coordinates (machine and work) when you home a table it goes to machine coordinates X0 and Y0 but your DRO may display a negative number if it is displaying work coordinates, until you zero it out. there is a button you can click to show either machine or work coordinates display.
This video may help
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgx0kT5UbKk
disp.JPG
disp 2.JPG

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acourtjester
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Re: New guy help on Cartesian Coordinate

Post by acourtjester »

It may help if you look at the cartesian coordinate system like GPS. You are at a point and want to go to another point you just enter the new coordinates you don't need to calculate a direction or distance, it just know how to move by the new positions coordinates.
This is very important when you plan a cut routine and you are using SheetCam (I sure other are the same) you can assign where you start from and it will do all the calculations for you. Now you can start from the center of your table or any corner, and when you go to cut you must position your torch at that point to start.
sheetCam.JPG

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Buckmaster1967
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Re: New guy help on Cartesian Coordinate

Post by Buckmaster1967 »

Thank all. Messed with it most of the day. Got a part built in Sheetcam, and ran it on my table. My Z axis is running backwards. In my Masso controller settings I can reverse the Z axis direction, but then it will go the wrong direction when Homing. I know I just got the settings off and I am close. So, my question is. If I have all tree axis setting on (0) at home. With Z axis up. How would it be at (0) at my work (Z down).
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Re: New guy help on Cartesian Coordinate

Post by acourtjester »

Ok the thing is Z zero when doing plasma Z 0.0 is the metal surface. I cannot tell you where in the Masso control settings for homing direction is but that is you problem. This is the reference that the G-code uses for setting the pierce height and the cut height. That is why finding Z home needs to be moving down, normal pierce height is about 0.160" which is up from the metal surface. If you are cutting 1 part you can set Z zero by moving the torch down to the metal surface and zeroing out the Z DRO and start the G-code from there. This is the reason for having an floating head switch or Ohmic sensor (both is best) so when you move to a location to cut a part z is told to move to home. When either sensor touches the metal surface it tell Mach it has found home and sets Z to 0.0. To setup the Z movement and home/limit you need to work with the settings to get it working correctly. As I said before Z homes down and Z zero is it lowest position either from sensor action or manual positioning. Here is a demo of what I am saying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irhDCCx ... e=youtu.be
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Re: New guy help on Cartesian Coordinate

Post by robertspark »

Think we may be getting a bit confused with MACHINE COORDINATES and WORK CO-ORDINATES.

Machine Co-ordinates are permanent co-ordinates

Work co-ordinates are temporary co-ordinates

Machine co-ordinates are where you use homing or set your home position.

It really does not matter where you set your homing position as long as it means something to you..... and that also does depend upon whether or if you are actually going to use them.

The purpose of homing a machine is to be able to set up its work envelope. you do not home a machine for Z 0.0 to be equal to the top of the material that is for your work co-ordinates.

"normally" Z home is the top of your Z-axis...... because that is where the cutting tool can always be located as a "safe" position
eg: G0 G53 Z0
this will normally send your cutting tool upwards to just before the limit switch.......

Work co-ordinates (such as TOM {Top Of Material)} are normally set in plasma using a floating head / touch off probe and or ohmic sensor..... and its just a temporary co-ordinate until your perform G31 (axis probe {aka SKIP function} because the bed of the plasma table is normally all over the place and cut up plus the material may not be flat and may warp)

when you are cutting "homing" axis just allows you to setup machine SOFT limits so that the machine will not go outside of those limits which can be useful if you dont have limit switches or if you want a slowdown zone (limit switches can still be useful..... Ive had some strange things happen when using Mach3 + scanything tracing parts....)}

In my case I chose my home position to be in the top (furtherst away from my operator position) LHS corner with the torch (Zaxis) at its highest point.
That way at the end of a cut I may choose to issue a G0 G53 Z0 , followed by a G0 G53 X0 Y0, so that when I load material onto the machine the torch + gantry is well out of the way, I then may issue a G0 X0 Y0 which will sent the torch back to my last set work co-ordinates position.

Normally in plasma we just use G54 as a single work co-ordinate offset and we move it around to suit the part we wish to cutout.... however if you use part cut sheets and keep the previous cutouts so you can use a full sheet then you may choose to use another G5x work offset which you could setup such as with a couple of alignment pegs so that if you load the part sheets once the machine is homed you always know exactly where the part cut sheets are aligned from.
I have a rotary axis and use G59 so that once the machine is homed I can then move it directly to align with the center of the rotary axis, and once the machine is homed, G59 G0 X0 Y0 is always the same location and aligns my Y axis (my 4th axis is actually a B axis)

With a plasma we normally don't worry about the bottom of the Z axis position, because it is usually below the table so don't set a soft limit (soft limits can have a deceleration zone sometimes)
However with a router you may consider setting up the wor co-ordinates g54-59 Z as being Top of spoilboard or top of table...... that way your tool should never go below the spoil when you add in tool length offsets etc..... not required with plasma.

Also worth noting that G31 seems to be G38.2 with MASSO controllers.
https://masso.com.au/docs/masso-cnc-con ... mentation/
I'll have a read of their info now and see if I can help any more.
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Re: New guy help on Cartesian Coordinate

Post by robertspark »

MASSO Controller.

You probably first want to make sure that your machine is moving the right way.....

https://masso.com.au/docs/masso-cnc-con ... shortcuts/

Press CTRL + M and your MDI (Manual Data Input) window will pop up
https://masso.com.au/docs/masso-cnc-con ... i-command/


Type in

Code: Select all

G92 X0 Y0 Z0
https://masso.com.au/docs/masso-cnc-con ... d-m-codes/
This will set a temporary work co-ordinate and zero your axis in their current locations.

If you Jog away from you as you are standing facing the machine, the Y axis should increment in a positive direction (i.e. numbers going from negative to positive / getting larger)
Use the UP ARROW on your keyboard

If you jog the machine to your RIGHT, the X axis should increment in a positive direction (i.e. numbers going from negative to positive / getting larger)
Use the RIGHT ARROW on your keyboard

If you jog the machine closest you you that position is X=0 & Y=0

If you jog the axis away from your table, that is your Z-axis and again the numbers will increment in a positive direction whilst jogging upwards away from the table (again.... (i.e. numbers going from negative to positive / getting larger))
Use your "U" Key on the keyboard

If your axis are moving in the right directions great.....

If not you may need to Invert the Direction of your motor settings.
https://masso.com.au/docs/masso-cnc-con ... 2b26af01d5

To get them going the right way.

Now you can setup your homing switches....
https://masso.com.au/docs/masso-cnc-con ... ng-inputs/
Setp 4 shows a setting to INVERT the Direction of the homing of the axis..... ie with plasma you want the homing to go up..... to the top of the Z axis

You can choose where you want your X and Y home (my preference as denoted in my earlier post was way from where I load my plate onto the table so its out of the way..... you can choose where you want it).

If your X and Y homing switches are closest to you and you want the machine 0,0 position in the top LHS of the table.... not a problem.... just tell the machine that the Y home position is Y -_____ where ____ is the distance from the Y home switch to where you want the 0,0 to be....... note the "-" which is because the home switch is closest to you and as in your above tests you want the machine to increment positive when going away from you on the Y axis.
See Step 5 here:
https://masso.com.au/docs/masso-cnc-con ... ng-inputs/
Buckmaster1967
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Re: New guy help on Cartesian Coordinate

Post by Buckmaster1967 »

acourtjester, robertspark , you guys rock. First thanks for taking the time to help me out. I had my axis backwards, and you hit it on the head , I was very confused with MACHINE COORDINATES and WORK CO-ORDINATES. After a lot of trial and error, I was about to use Corel draw to make a .dxf file, then used Sheetcam to make a .tap file. Got my table to draw out a Steelers helmet, with a taped on pencil. lol. Very excited to finally get over the hump. Now to get my plamsa setup on the table. I have a load of learning to do in the softwares and controller.
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acourtjester
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Re: New guy help on Cartesian Coordinate

Post by acourtjester »

Happy to help as usual someone here will answer questions, seeing your table do something is a big help with learning. Many of the finer details start to make sense.
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Re: New guy help on Cartesian Coordinate

Post by robertspark »

Happy to help anytime.
More info is better than little to none.... only you know what your setup looks like + can explain what is wrong. :roll:
Photos / screenshots always help to give advice (I use http://getgreenshot.org/ for screenshots)

Never had an issue with too much information when trying to solve a problem..... normally its always being given 1/2 a story and my crystal ball is out of batteries :D .

Happy cutting .... welcome to the industry now you have a working system.
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