Table suggestions. Good, Bad, & Ugly

[KeeYaw]

I will be purchasing a 4' x 8' plasma table with pipe cutter soon. Am also considering the Router and Engraver option. This table will be for personal use to fab own parts, etc. Looking to spend less than 20K. Would like some feed back of tables that are liked, disliked and why. Will be cutting steel and aluminum no more than 1/2 thick but mostly less than 1/8 thickness. Will be routering custom cypress doors, windows, trim, etc.

Any input would be great appreciated!

[abmagrum]

you should check out Arclight plasma tables high quality heavy duty.

Scott is always there to help.

and if you cant make it for training he has videos to train you for free.

bought mine this spring and Scott was the ONLY one who would deal . everyone else wouldn't budge an inch.

and for quality his tables are in the automotive industry plants

[MountainGoat]

A plug for Ross and Cindy at TRU-CUT. They built me an awesome table and they are a PLEASURE to work with. I personally think their table is the best bang for the buck. The table is built HEAVY DUTY and their support is second to none.

[KeeYaw]

Also, pros and cons on Water Pan vs Downward Vent System?

[abmagrum]

I have water table . little messy but keeps dust down and metal cool.

down draft system works but will suck all youre heat out.

[KeeYaw]

Suck heat out from??

[abmagrum]

sucks heat out ofyoure shop .you have to exhaust the fumes outside . with fumes, goes air, goes heat.

water table is probably way to go .

[KeeYaw]

Gotcha, well......Im in south Louisiana so heat out of building is a plus!! lol. Thank you for responding!

[abmagrum]

hey if that's the case the vacuum may be a good ideal as long as you are not running air conditioning.
you have to consider cost of unit . do you have enough available electricity.
in youre case it might be better option .
there both good

[KeeYaw]

Plenty of electricity available. Just hear about water table having something to do with excess dross. ??

[tnbndr]

I don't think the water table has any affect on the amount of dross. That is a result of cut settings, speed/amps.
This subject has been discussed on here plenty of times. Try to search the forum and you will see a lot of old discussions.
Do not rush into a purchase.

[jimcolt]

Water tables are a simple, low cost method of controlling fumes, however the drawbacks are a rougher cut edge and more bottom dross, as well as rust and stains on the material and on your machine. A properly designed downdraft table will produce no smoke and will provide for better cut quality....with the drawback of requiring ducts, a large blower (typically about 6000 cfm for a 4 x 8 table). If this air is blown outside and you are heating your building...it will quickly pull the heat outside during those cold winter months.

I prefer downdraft based on better cut quality an lack of rust and stains in my home shop.

As far as the best cut tables....there are a lot of good ones out there. Make sure you have one that has a good height control system.....and if you plan to cut a fair amount of thin material the height control will work best if it utilizes Ohmic plate contact to sense the surface of the material before each cut. This technique improves consumable parts life by always piercing at the correct height. Ensure (try it out) that the software included with the table is easy to learn and use, and meets your needs for both CAD and CAM functionality.

Oh yeah...the plasma system is very important as well. They are not all created equallly....with the better plasma systems providing dramatically longer consumable life, easier electrical interface and more consistant cut quality.

Search the forums, listen to other users in regards to their choices of cnc machines and plasma cutters. Buying based on the lowest price does not get the best product......spend a bit more and the ease of use and lower operating cost often makes the more expensive option less expensive over time.

Jim Colt

Jim Colt Hypertherm

[Metriccar]

CandCNC offers ohmic sensing technology.
Only $69.
This should allow for more accurate pierces and therefore better quality at the beginning of the cut correct? Or is this just for consumable life?

[abmetal]

I've got downdraft and am 100% satisfied. No fumes at all.

Allen

[762frmafr]

Check out LDR Motion Systems. And get a Hypertherm plasma cutter.

[Metriccar]

If water tables help cause dross, I'd rather have a down draft. Water tables make a mess. The only advantage I see to them is they cool the metal down preventing warping or keeping metal that shouldn't be hot form heating up.

[JJsCustomDesigns]

I have a water table and i have not seen anymore dross than when i had a downdraft. I chose to build a water table because i did not want a 10"+ hole in my wall to vent the plasma cutter. Besides, the downdraft sucked out all my heat in the winter.

If water tables help cause dross, I'd rather have a down draft. Water tables make a mess. The only advantage I see to them is they cool the metal down preventing warping or keeping metal that shouldn't be hot form heating up.

[jimcolt]

As I stated....the advantage of a water tray (which is different than a "water table") is that it is inexpensive to fabricate and use, and it is very effective at controlling fumes. The drawbacks are rust, stains, mess and an effect on cut quality. There will be postters on here that will continue to say cut quality is not affected by water, however I have been working for Hypertherm for close to 36 years, and water in contact with the edge affects the process chemically and thermally. Compared to dry cuts....cuts that water touches the edge during cutting will be rougher (more pronounced lag lines) and have a narrower dross free speed interval. You often can get dross free cutting in a water situation, but the speed range between low speed dross and high speed dross is much narrower...and in some cases non-existent.

On the statement regarding water table systems eliminating warpage. If you cut at the correct speed with a plasma there is virtually no warpage. If you cut too slow with a plasma there is warpage.....and if you cut too slow with water on the plate...this warpage is minimized. I prefer to cut at the correct speed without water and warpage. cutting at the correct speed produces a narrower cut kerf and less dross, as well as a narrower heat affected zone. Unfortunately many low cost cnc machines cannot achieve the cut speeds that work best on thin materials, so water tables will help out with warpage....but you pay a price in terms of edge quality, dross and kerf width.

A water tray is typically just that....a tray (2" to any depth) that allows water to effectively touch the bottom of the material being cut. The fine, hot particles of the material being cut are blown by the force of the plasma jet into the water....thes particles are cooled, become heavier than air and sink in the tray. Without the water..larger particles would fall , smaller particles become lighter than air when hot and rise in the form of smoke. Much of the smoke is a by product of mill scale or oil on the material, some of it is the material.

A water table is often deeper, and has the ability to raise and lower the water using a simple pneumatic (air) controlled displacement design (an air/water tank at the bottom that gets filled with air, pushing the water into the upper chamber, raising its level in relation to the material to be cut.) that allows you to raise/lower water. You can cut underwater (there are some advantages doing this on stainless...and at high power levels (over 200 amps)). Another advantage with a raise/lower water table is that you can adjust the water to a point where it does not splash on the metal....yet still traps an adequate amount of fumes. Raise lower water tabels are more complex, cost more, yet are very effective fume controls as well.

Downdraft tables require enough air flow so that the flow rate in the table is powerful enough to move the heavy and light particles through a duct. If your local situation allows blowing these fumes outside, then that is adequate to disipate the fumes. Typically a 2 x 2 table needs about 1000 cfm, a 4 x 4 about 3500 cfm, and a 4 x 8 about 7000 cfm in order to remove all of the smoke/fumes. That means that during heating season you will be pulling that amount of heat out of your shop. Some better designs use a cold air makeup duct strategically placed near the table so that air flow of the table uses outside air instead of your shop air. Some larger downdraft tables use zoned sections with movable louvers so that the suction is only pulling on the area of the table that the torch is cutting on.

There of course are many downdraft tables that use a large self cleaning filtration system inside the shop.....these filter the fumes and smoke and keep all of the heat in the shop. The filter systems, zoned systems and air makeup systems add cost and complexity.

Why do I use a downdraft on my tables? Because I live in the middle of 6 acres...and I can blow the fumes outside (does not bother my neighbors), I get the best cut quality, and I am a low volume hobby shop so the system does pull heat out of my shop....but since my plasma cuts occasionally the heat recovers quickly.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

[pertneer]

Lots of excellent information in this post. Thanks for sharing your years of experience with us.

As I stated....the advantage of a water tray (which is different than a "water table") is that it is inexpensive to fabricate and use, and it is very effective at controlling fumes. The drawbacks are rust, stains, mess and an effect on cut quality. There will be postters on here that will continue to say cut quality is not affected by water, however I have been working for Hypertherm for close to 36 years, and water in contact with the edge affects the process chemically and thermally. Compared to dry cuts....cuts that water touches the edge during cutting will be rougher (more pronounced lag lines) and have a narrower dross free speed interval. You often can get dross free cutting in a water situation, but the speed range between low speed dross and high speed dross is much narrower...and in some cases non-existent.

On the statement regarding water table systems eliminating warpage. If you cut at the correct speed with a plasma there is virtually no warpage. If you cut too slow with a plasma there is warpage.....and if you cut too slow with water on the plate...this warpage is minimized. I prefer to cut at the correct speed without water and warpage. cutting at the correct speed produces a narrower cut kerf and less dross, as well as a narrower heat affected zone. Unfortunately many low cost cnc machines cannot achieve the cut speeds that work best on thin materials, so water tables will help out with warpage....but you pay a price in terms of edge quality, dross and kerf width.

A water tray is typically just that....a tray (2" to any depth) that allows water to effectively touch the bottom of the material being cut. The fine, hot particles of the material being cut are blown by the force of the plasma jet into the water....thes particles are cooled, become heavier than air and sink in the tray. Without the water..larger particles would fall , smaller particles become lighter than air when hot and rise in the form of smoke. Much of the smoke is a by product of mill scale or oil on the material, some of it is the material.

A water table is often deeper, and has the ability to raise and lower the water using a simple pneumatic (air) controlled displacement design (an air/water tank at the bottom that gets filled with air, pushing the water into the upper chamber, raising its level in relation to the material to be cut.) that allows you to raise/lower water. You can cut underwater (there are some advantages doing this on stainless...and at high power levels (over 200 amps)). Another advantage with a raise/lower water table is that you can adjust the water to a point where it does not splash on the metal....yet still traps an adequate amount of fumes. Raise lower water tabels are more complex, cost more, yet are very effective fume controls as well.

Downdraft tables require enough air flow so that the flow rate in the table is powerful enough to move the heavy and light particles through a duct. If your local situation allows blowing these fumes outside, then that is adequate to disipate the fumes. Typically a 2 x 2 table needs about 1000 cfm, a 4 x 4 about 3500 cfm, and a 4 x 8 about 7000 cfm in order to remove all of the smoke/fumes. That means that during heating season you will be pulling that amount of heat out of your shop. Some better designs use a cold air makeup duct strategically placed near the table so that air flow of the table uses outside air instead of your shop air. Some larger downdraft tables use zoned sections with movable louvers so that the suction is only pulling on the area of the table that the torch is cutting on.

There of course are many downdraft tables that use a large self cleaning filtration system inside the shop.....these filter the fumes and smoke and keep all of the heat in the shop. The filter systems, zoned systems and air makeup systems add cost and complexity.

Why do I use a downdraft on my tables? Because I live in the middle of 6 acres...and I can blow the fumes outside (does not bother my neighbors), I get the best cut quality, and I am a low volume hobby shop so the system does pull heat out of my shop....but since my plasma cuts occasionally the heat recovers quickly.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

[KeeYaw]

Thanks to everyone for your imput! It is really appreciated! Now for the "loaded" question.......is their any tables that you would stay away from? No hard feelings if its best left alone, Ive gotten awesome advise from tables that were highly recommended!

Thanks Again!

[KeeYaw]

Thanks to everyone who in boxed me on the Bad and Ugly. Guess I shouldve thought about broadcasting the bad and ugly. lol.

[CNCCAJUN]

There really are none that are ugly.

Every person looking to get a CNC Plasma Table is in a different situation.

The downsides of a particular table may be insignificant to one person & a big negative to another.

To someone that has the skills to design and build successfully "anything" he desires, a homebuilt with Tom's C&CNC components is no more of a challenge than changing spark plugs in their truck.

To me, fabricating a perfectly square welded table is big hill to climb. The design software & the various operating programs, ie. Mach3 are the least of my concern, but I have spent the last 25+ years as a designer working in AutoCAD & every other P.O.S. some engineering house purchased. On the other hand, it will probably take me 3 days to turn a picture of a Christmas Tree into a DXF. My artist like skills are ZERO.

Then you have guys on here that could make a sculpture out of ten beer cans that you would think belongs in an art gallery.

Then there is the application . . . Is it a hobby, sideline biz or a I have to make a go of it fulltime endeavor . . . .

Steve