3d "soccer ball"...definitely NOT a fire pit

[Scratch]

Twisted and I have been following each other for a number of years, and he always seems to be a step ahead of us. He is a great metal artists but never claims to be,,, "He is just having fun" He is a great artist and a cool dude.
My comment on his post doesn't determine when I started my design.
What my comment does show is that I was working on something similar before the picture was posted.
Maybe we were influenced by the same metal art world we are in.
My determination came from a request for a fire pit in 2013. Influenced by artist like fire pit gallery and a couple others making the hand cut steel balls, geodesic homes, and a post I once seen of a young man that made a solid geodesic sphere. I think he was making a BBQ pit. I wish I remember his name. I think I can find it.
2014 I mostly finalize my design just needed a theme and because of a job I was working on and lack of money I could not work on protype until 2015. The person the requested a fire pit could not afford what I wanted to build. "we don't do square plane designs".
My dated cad files will show I worked on my design before twisteds post. Not Influenced by his, but definitely admired.
Never the less I'm sure haters will still hate, but please don't twist my words. It is what it is.

ok look, i Dont know you, you "liked" my page on facebook, so i looked at your page and politely gave yours a like.... I DONT follow your page or many others pages for that matter..... i personally dont give One Red Damn if you or anybody else copy's something i make or made.... ive always said if you make cool shit you will be copied.... but you mr lizard and myself, do not go way back in time as it sounded like you suggested.... i am my own man and need no one to hold my hand..... your deal with "your firepit design" is simply that! your deal!! it has nothing to do with me... im not going to get in a pissing match with you or anybody else on when you came out with it or when i did.... if you took half of the time that you spend chasing something that anybody can make that is familiar with welding,cutting ect. maybe you will get copied too!!! i dont give a damn either way.... now, with that being said i buy my own steel, i buy my on tools.... i will make.... what i want to make. yes i have seen most of the post all over the net (and under different alias names i might add) about the firepit design and who had rights to this and that and i haven't said much if anything about it... why? cause i dont give shit!!! if i like something i make it, its what i love to do...in this country people copy others ideas and improve on them... thats why we have powersteering and electric windows in our rides these days.... so im done with this, "i got to get a step ahead" again lol... somebody make something cool so we can see it. have a great day!!

Oh Snap.jpg

[deyhard]

well now that this is settled lets get back to making cool stuff

[Lmpsr70357]

[Larry83301]

I for ONE am glad that this will be put to rest!
Much information was presented and many points of view were expressed but let's put the past in the past and move on to new things, OK!!


Larry

[little blue choo]

AMEN Brother!

Rick

[Redneck]

I apologize for my ignorance. The only part of the geodesic fire pits that are copyrighted is my images. I hope I didn't cause any inconvenience.
I wish to express my apologies to everyone which is kind of hard being blocked by many,, so please pass the word.
I will entertain any requests to send a hard copy of my position and apologizes.

Regards.

Louis Primeaux
Lizard King Fabrication

Thanks for that Louis. This whole issue didn't affect me, but I am glad to see your apology. (It was quite entertaining though) It takes a man to apologize after everything that has happened with this, and it ain't easy. Best to you.

[motoguy]

I apologize for my ignorance. The only part of the geodesic fire pits that are copyrighted is my images. I hope I didn't cause any inconvenience.
I wish to express my apologies to everyone which is kind of hard being blocked by many,, so please pass the word.
I will entertain any requests to send a hard copy of my position and apologizes.

Regards.

Louis Primeaux
Lizard King Fabrication

It take maturity to admit one is wrong. Particularly after such a "spirited" debate. Here's a quote that seems appropriate.

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain

And here is another:

"And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”"

We have all made mistakes. As a matter of fact, I'm of the firm belief that mistakes are the seeds from which knowledge grows. The question then becomes, "how will you learn/grow from this mistake?" I, for one, hope you stay around as a contributing member. Contributing members help everyone.

As an aside...what changed your mind regarding your intellectual property rights?

[Lmpsr70357]

[TWIZTED181]

I apologize for my ignorance. The only part of the geodesic fire pits that are copyrighted is my images. I hope I didn't cause any inconvenience.
I wish to express my apologies to everyone which is kind of hard being blocked by many,, so please pass the word.
I will entertain any requests to send a hard copy of my position and apologizes.

Regards.

Louis Primeaux
Lizard King Fabrication

Mr. Louis, i just want to clear the air for you and everyone else that may have took wrong what i said in my last post..... sir i wish you the best at what you do... im not mad or have hard feelings at all about anything.... im sure you could have read that wrong and maybe took it wrong.... ive made a lot of things in my lifetime and have yet felt that one of them warranted a copyright or patent. now, if i could make a grinding pad that dont make sparks,dust or sling slag in my eyes the yeah id be running to the copyright/patent office lol..... i take a lot into how a man treats me... you treat me with respect and ill do the same... you have never done anything personal to me. so as an internet/facebook friend far as im concerned you and i are ok... i do respect you for coming back on here and apologizing to the folks that deserve it. nice job. btw thanks for the complements towards me.. i appreciate it... you have nice work as well, i hope in the future you use your talents to make some cool stuff... im sure if you do you will get copied... dont worry about it, take its as your doing something kick ass and people want to make it too.... thats what i do...lol

[East German]

I hope that it was now. Back to the shop and get to work.
Best wishes to all.

Peter

[admin]

As entertaining as this may be I have received numerous complaints about this thread and I am tired of seeing this go on also. Members with new names have been banned again. Lets get back to business and have some fun!

[dunnmfg]

I apologize for my ignorance. The only part of the geodesic fire pits that are copyrighted is my images. I hope I didn't cause any inconvenience.
I wish to express my apologies to everyone which is kind of hard being blocked by many,, so please pass the word.
I will entertain any requests to send a hard copy of my position and apologizes.

Regards.

Louis Primeaux
Lizard King Fabrication

Does this mean you will share the file again??

[beefy]

Dear god would you two get a room.

Mods, ban them both and lock this thread, please.

I'd like to leave a finishing thought based on what mongoose and other "thread complainers" there are. Have me banned if it's thought that's in the forums best interests.

If I hadn't started this all off by asking for LK to produce proof his crazy claims (the original deleted thread). If I hadn't pushed back so hard, as others have also done. What would the situation be now ???

The last I heard LK said he's already got 20 odd customers and at the time I think he was selling the "rights" at about $380, so that's about $8700 if he'd sold 23 of them. No idea what his income from this scam is to date.

Copyright is a BIG area of interest here, and when some guy comes and shouts out that others must pay him for something he doesn't even have copyright on, then what, do nothing, say nothing, let some ripoff artist continue and steal money from members here. And of course in the process give the green light for other dishonest people to do the same thing.

It's because of this (and the previously deleted thread) that LK "finally" (roll eyes) stopped trying to steal peoples money. And it sends out a message to others not to try this. When you think about it this thread has actually protected members who may succumb to LK and others like him.

If plenty others think I'm out of line for being unrelenting with LK then send the mods PMs and request my ban. If that's the way it works here I don't belong anyway.

Edit:

And the following thread is also an outcome of keeping up the pressure on LK until he finally admits his wrongdoing.

http://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=20900

Members have been scared to share because of LKs threats. Now they are back to share the firepit files again. If the "thread moaners" had got their way this would not be happening. Fighting back can be a good thing.

[tnbndr]

I have received numerous complaints about this thread and I am tired of seeing this go on also.

I guess I don't understand! Is someone standing at their computer forcing them to read the post????
You know by the title what the thread is about, if it bothers you so much don't click and read, move on!

[abmetal]

HEY BEEFY, you got my vote.

Allen

[admin]

I understand your points Beefy and tnbndr, thank you. It’s not so cut and dry for me unfortunately, members can post what they want and that's the end of it, they simply carry on with their day and come back to read the response when they want. For me though it’s just the beginning, 1 simple post can result in plenty of reading, messages, emails and more and that is why I get frustrated with these situations. Sometimes I am so frustrated I just delete the entire thread to be rid of it. I'm not taking sides, I'm not deleting posts to hide anything, I’m just trying to keep it as simple as possible. I do my best to keep the forums free of spam and nonsense to maintain good quality content for you guys and gals and it takes time, spending time on this crap is just frustrating to me. Like most if you I have a real job, my own family, life issues, etc. LK has been asked to use his "copyright" to protect himself and to stop fighting about this in the forums and he refuses to stop, particularly when he is egged on. He has been in contact with me on numerous occasions, been banned twice on 2 different accounts and I'm sure this isn't the end of this so I will continue to deal with it. Like many other forums I could just ignore everything and let it run itself, but I know the content quality and information organization will suffer. Maybe I am doing things wrong and don’t know how to run a forum properly, I don’t know for sure, but I know I am more or less on my own here and am truly doing my best to make this the best it can be for everyone. Always open to suggestions everyone. Have a great day

[steel 35]

Beefy; Admin thank you Both for all you do and share.

And Happy Geo fire pits, too all the rest,

[Bobcat320]

I understand your points Beefy and tnbndr, thank you. It’s not so cut and dry for me unfortunately, members can post what they want and that's the end of it, they simply carry on with their day and come back to read the response when they want. For me though it’s just the beginning, 1 simple post can result in plenty of reading, messages, emails and more and that is why I get frustrated with these situations. Sometimes I am so frustrated I just delete the entire thread to be rid of it. I'm not taking sides, I'm not deleting posts to hide anything, I’m just trying to keep it as simple as possible. I do my best to keep the forums free of spam and nonsense to maintain good quality content for you guys and gals and it takes time, spending time on this crap is just frustrating to me. Like most if you I have a real job, my own family, life issues, etc. LK has been asked to use his "copyright" to protect himself and to stop fighting about this in the forums and he refuses to stop, particularly when he is egged on. He has been in contact with me on numerous occasions, been banned twice on 2 different accounts and I'm sure this isn't the end of this so I will continue to deal with it. Like many other forums I could just ignore everything and let it run itself, but I know the content quality and information organization will suffer. Maybe I am doing things wrong and don’t know how to run a forum properly, I don’t know for sure, but I know I am more or less on my own here and am truly doing my best to make this the best it can be for everyone. Always open to suggestions everyone. Have a great day

I for one thank you for your dedication and service to this forum. The wealth of knowledge, ideas, help and files that can be found here are second to none! We have a great group of people here who are most willing to share and help those of us that still behind the leaning curve. There will always be differences of opinions, but you all in Admin do a terrific job of keeping this forum the best one there is!
Carl

[Scratch]

Thanks to Admin for all your hard work. Babysitting us idiots must be a pain in the ass sometimes.

[abmetal]

My thanks also, to the administrator of this awesome site. I, and I'm sure others, take this site for granted not knowing what all goes into making it what it is. I can never express enough gratitude to you AND all of the talented folks that contribute. I have told others countless times to look at this site just to see all of the talent. I do appreciate what you all do.

Thank you.
Allen

[beefy]

Admin,

I think you need to set a few ground rules about allowed topic content. I'm sure a read of such other rules on other forums will give you an insight.

First of all I though this was a DISCUSSION forum. There is always going to be a fight somewhere, especially when a crook member attempts to rip other members off. So long as it doesn't resort to swearing, etc and going completely off the rails, let the discussion run. And if the thread moaners start emailing you to complain, just have a stock response that this is a discussion forum and they are not forced to read that thread. Or are you just trying to keep everyone happy because if that's the case I don't think you'll succeed. There'll always be ones who think everything should be flowers, lovely colour and happy happy, and then there'll be people like myself who fight back against crooks like LK who mislead, scare and swindle forum members. Just set some ground rules on what is allowed in the forum, then when someone complains, just refer them to the forum rules. And tnbndr has a very valid point, members are not forced to read that thread, so why the hell are they doing so, maybe they want to control what others say which kind of defeats the purpose of a discussion forum.

Seems to me the thread moaners are pressuring you into deleting threads that have content which is of great value to members. If it wasn't for this thread (with all the content the thread moaners don't like), some of the good honest hardworking members here would be missing out, either by being swindled, or scared to make a firepit for profit, or scared to share firepit files. The outcome of this thread has benefited everyone and set a precedent for other would be swindlers to not try such actions.

Don't let thread moaners push you into doing the wrong thing and deleting such threads. Just because a thread ain't all I love you and you love me, doesn't mean it doesn't have great value at the end of the day. I promise you not everyone will be your friend because everyone thinks different and a set of discussion rules won't be to everyones tastes. But they are free to leave if they don't like them.

And to the thread moaners, for Gods sake leave the moderator alone and let people DISCUSS matters, or this forum won't last as a place for valuable free discussion, and if you don't like a particular thread then just don't read it. Is that too hard.

[muzza]

As entertaining as this may be I have received numerous complaints about this thread and I am tired of seeing this go on also. Members with new names have been banned again. Lets get back to business and have some fun!

Justin,

Your forum so it's your rules but you have asked me for opinion in the past so what I am offering is just that, my opinion and mine only and may not be agreed by all if any.

Firstly, make your own decisions and not those based on what others ask you to do. As others have said, those that want to have a whinge or don't like the content of a thread simply bypass it and read on. The same as those that don't like the atmosphere can moved to another room as many have.

In saying that, I don't agree with banning someone just because they express their opinion or have a different view to another but if they step outside the rules then there is call for action, maybe banning, maybe warning, maybe restriction to certain areas, your call. If a defined set of rules are in place and there's a breach, then those involved need expect to be dealt with accordingly.

Now talking this thread and the two episodes before it, I believe the wrong decision is to delete the thread as has been done the past two times. Some very valid and helpful information has been provided regarding copyright and it's true meaning. This is not the first time it's been raised and is an area that many have to be aware of. Last time the thread was deleted a great deal of information was publicly deleted but as has been reposted within this thread as someone was smart enough to make a copy of it before being deleted following the deletion of the first thread so if you're keen enough you can find it and read through it.

Looking at it in another perspective lets use a big "If" and a lot of maybe.
If that original thread had been left to run it's course and left to come back to and Lizard King not been deleted don't we think this would have been resolved sooner. It may be seen as ambitious thinking but going by what has been put before us we have a person who had in their mind what they thought was correct, we had others trying to explain to them that they were wrong. It was only a matter of time for the one who was wrongly informed was going to sit back and say, hey maybe I'm wrong, I better check this out again. When that was done and he saw reality, the wrong person admitted their wrongs and apologised.

Now take that apology how you will but at the end of the day many would not have even done so, so as not to bruise their ego. He has also now realised with his wrongs he has to make restitution and has said he is trying to work out a way to do so. Maybe, just maybe he was a few days or weeks off initiating the doubts in his mind and all this could have been resolved sooner and instead of trying to make amends with however many members have paid it could have only been a few.

In my opinion and my opinion only, I don't see the reasoning in banning Lizard King, especially now that this has run it's course and he has apologised. I think this thread could almost (but don't) be made a sticky as a reminder to all of the do's and don'ts and how to and how not to act.

As for the forum and it's moderation, that's a whole other story for another day.
Murray

[beefy]

Another point about LK and his apologies for which he seems to be gaining some respect LOL.

He'll gain my respect when he refunds the $10K or however much he seems to have made from his venture. An apology is meaningless if your don't give back what you fraudulently took from people. It's not like he didn't have the situation explained to him (in detail) many times.

[tnbndr]

I understand your points Beefy and tnbndr, thank you.

Admin, you do a great job and I realize you get complaints and pressure from people. I understand you have to read all the threads. Its the complainers that don't like reading it that keep coming back to it that I don't understand.
I guess I will reiterate what others have said. As long as the discussion is civil and doesn't break any forum rules I don't believe in deleting the thread or banning any of the participants. It seems he found a way around the ban anyway.
Anyway, no worries. It is your forum and I do appreciate it being here.

[admin]

Murray, beefy, your points and comments are well taken and I appreciate the time you to took to express them. Very helpful to hear and much needed to begin thinking outside my own mindset. I most certainly will begin handling things differently in the future. A big thanks to everyone for their input and support, this is a great community and I find myself being over protective and often make the wrong decision as we all do from time to time. Lets carry on and continue to share, laugh at each others comments, and have some fun in shop