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Trouble using fine cut consumables.

Information on plasma cutting nozzles, electrodes, and other consumables.
OTHill
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Trouble using fine cut consumables.

Postby OTHill » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:28 pm

I can't cut any thing with fine cut consumables any more.I'm using Mach 3,Cand CNC electronics and Hypertherm 65 Plasma. I've checked and rechecked book specs. I'm cutting 14 and 16 ga.It will pierce like it's supposed to and cut for 2 or 3 in.than stop dead with torch off.There are no error codes on Mach or plasma.I don't know much about g code but I've been watching it as it cuts and it starts a pierce on MO3 than cuts to MO5 and quits.but it's not done the cut yet.I can change over to 45 amp consumables and it works perfectly every time.Any help or suggestions are appreciated.Allan
5x10 table,Precision plasma gantry,Cand CNC electronics,Hypertherm 65 plasma,King lathe and mill,255 lincoln mig welder.Dawson Creek BC. Much modified Fastcut 4x8 plasma table with Ethercut

abmagrum
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Re: Trouble using fine cut consumables.

Postby abmagrum » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:45 pm

I think the fine cut needs more air pressure.

are you running 120-130 psi ?

you need a gauge at the back of the plasma cutter . you don't want to drop below 90 psi .

just a possibility

if not that then something is out of wack . you will love fine cuts when they are set up right.

if air psi is good post all youre settings and one of the pros will help

are you clamping the ground to the work piece ? that may help also
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OTHill
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Re: Trouble using fine cut consumables.

Postby OTHill » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:16 pm

abmagrum wrote:I think the fine cut needs more air pressure.

are you running 120-130 psi ?

you need a gauge at the back of the plasma cutter . you don't want to drop below 90 psi .

just a possibility

if not that then something is out of wack . you will love fine cuts when they are set up right.

if air psi is good post all youre settings and one of the pros will help

are you clamping the ground to the work piece ? that may help also

I have a pressure gage at the back of the plasma and it is not dropping below 90.I was able to cut nicely with fine cut awhile back and now it's gone to the dogs.
5x10 table,Precision plasma gantry,Cand CNC electronics,Hypertherm 65 plasma,King lathe and mill,255 lincoln mig welder.Dawson Creek BC. Much modified Fastcut 4x8 plasma table with Ethercut

Largemouthlou
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Re: Trouble using fine cut consumables.

Postby Largemouthlou » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:23 am

Does it move to next spot and touch off like it is going to start a cut? Or does the Gcode just stop??
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jimcolt
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Re: Trouble using fine cut consumables.

Postby jimcolt » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:34 am

No error codes indicate that it is either a releases start input from your machine....or a momentary air pressure drop.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

OTHill
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Re: Trouble using fine cut consumables.

Postby OTHill » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:56 am

It just stops and does nothing.I can leave the same piece of steel on the table,Change over to 45 amp tip and settings and it works just great.Does a fine cut tip use more air?Also how is the g code supposed to work.It looks to me by observation that MO5 is the end of a cut,but with the fine cut it reaches MO5 after several inches of travel than quits if that makes any sense.Allan
5x10 table,Precision plasma gantry,Cand CNC electronics,Hypertherm 65 plasma,King lathe and mill,255 lincoln mig welder.Dawson Creek BC. Much modified Fastcut 4x8 plasma table with Ethercut

icmplasma85
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Re: Trouble using fine cut consumables.

Postby icmplasma85 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:38 am

Which swirl ring are you using? There are two for fine cut, one is meant for hand cutting not mechanized cutting. I had problems when I was using the wrong one on my table.
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OTHill
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Re: Trouble using fine cut consumables.

Postby OTHill » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:49 pm

For some reason my Hypertherm book only shows one swirl ring for all applications,unless i'm looking wrong.The number is 220857.Allan
5x10 table,Precision plasma gantry,Cand CNC electronics,Hypertherm 65 plasma,King lathe and mill,255 lincoln mig welder.Dawson Creek BC. Much modified Fastcut 4x8 plasma table with Ethercut

OTHill
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Re: Trouble using fine cut consumables.

Postby OTHill » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:53 pm

jimcolt wrote:No error codes indicate that it is either a releases start input from your machine....or a momentary air pressure drop.

Jim Colt Hypertherm


Whats a releases start input,and would it only happen with FC consumables?If its a momentary air pressure drop why is it only with FC consumables?
5x10 table,Precision plasma gantry,Cand CNC electronics,Hypertherm 65 plasma,King lathe and mill,255 lincoln mig welder.Dawson Creek BC. Much modified Fastcut 4x8 plasma table with Ethercut

icmplasma85
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Re: Trouble using fine cut consumables.

Postby icmplasma85 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:55 pm

The part number you have listed is the correct one, the one used for hand cutting is 220947. I've heard Jim Colt talking about knock off Hypertherm consumables made in China or elsewhere, but don't know if they would cause something like this. Did you buy your current finecuts from your normal supplier?
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beefy
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Re: Trouble using fine cut consumables.

Postby beefy » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:09 pm

OTHill wrote:I can leave the same piece of steel on the table,Change over to 45 amp tip and settings and it works just great.Does a fine cut tip use more air?Also how is the g code supposed to work.It looks to me by observation that MO5 is the end of a cut,but with the fine cut it reaches MO5 after several inches of travel than quits if that makes any sense.Allan


Allan,

could you be a bit more specific with that one. What do you mean when you say, "it reaches MO5 after several inches of travel" ?? Are you saying your gcode has M05 bang in the middle of the code that makes up a line, instead of being at the end of that gcode. If that's what you mean then there's the problem.

M05 command turns the torch off. Are you saying it was this command in the gcode that turned the torch off.
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OTHill
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Re: Trouble using fine cut consumables.

Postby OTHill » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:08 pm

beefy wrote:
OTHill wrote:I can leave the same piece of steel on the table,Change over to 45 amp tip and settings and it works just great.Does a fine cut tip use more air?Also how is the g code supposed to work.It looks to me by observation that MO5 is the end of a cut,but with the fine cut it reaches MO5 after several inches of travel than quits if that makes any sense.Allan


Allan,

could you be a bit more specific with that one. What do you mean when you say, "it reaches MO5 after several inches of travel" ?? Are you saying your gcode has M05 bang in the middle of the code that makes up a line, instead of being at the end of that gcode. If that's what you mean then there's the problem.

M05 command turns the torch off. Are you saying it was this command in the gcode that turned the torch off.


As close as I can tell It reaches MO5 before the end of the cut and than stops.
5x10 table,Precision plasma gantry,Cand CNC electronics,Hypertherm 65 plasma,King lathe and mill,255 lincoln mig welder.Dawson Creek BC. Much modified Fastcut 4x8 plasma table with Ethercut

jimcolt
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Re: Trouble using fine cut consumables.

Postby jimcolt » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:01 am

The Fine Cut parts are more sensitive to low and high pressures as compared to the other Hypertherm consumable sets. They flow considerably less air than the other consumables.

If you have an M5 command in your GCode at the point where it stops....then that would be why it stops as M5 is a plasma off command.

No error codes on the plasma indicates that the plasma did not shut itself off, unless the inlet pressure dropped (momentarily) below about 85 psi. If the air drops while flowing it will immediately show a low air pressure code, howeve if the pressure climbs again to an acceptable level before you look at the error LCD screen....the error code will go away. If you think this could be the issue you can call Hypertherm tech service and they will instruct you on how to look at the past error codes on your plasma.

Are you using a different GCode when cutting with the FineCut consumables.....or exactly the same as when cutting with the other consumables?

Where did you purchase your Fine Cut consumables?

Jim Colt Hypertherm





OTHill wrote:
jimcolt wrote:No error codes indicate that it is either a releases start input from your machine....or a momentary air pressure drop.

Jim Colt Hypertherm


Whats a releases start input,and would it only happen with FC consumables?If its a momentary air pressure drop why is it only with FC consumables?

beefy
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Re: Trouble using fine cut consumables.

Postby beefy » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:27 pm

[/quote]As close as I can tell It reaches MO5 before the end of the cut and than stops.[/quote]

Allan,

please forgive me if the following seems direct. That's not my intention, just trying to figure a few things out. You say, "As close as I can tell". Do you know how to do a dry run with the torch off. Do you know how to single step through the code while doing a dry run. Do you know what each line of gcode means.

Doing a dry run and single stepping through the code is what I do in a situation like yours to check if the problem is coming from Mach or the commands in the code. If there's an M05 in your code it will be clear as day and the torch LED on the screen will switch off when you run it. You'll know for certain if that is what's turning the torch off.

The Candcnc system has a relay that closes contacts to short out the torch on input to the plasma cutter. You could wire a switch in parallel with this and when the cut has started, flick the switch. Now Mach cannot turn the plasma cutter off that is now in your control. If the torch still switches off the problem came from the plasma cutter because the torch on signal is definitely there (your switch). This is a quick and dirty way of isolating what is switching the flame off - the torch on signal from Mach or the plasma cutter shutting down.

Keith.
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HCB
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Re: Trouble using fine cut consumables.

Postby HCB » Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:40 pm

Dunno if this will help:

I run Mach3 and CandCNC electronics and I'm very happy with my software and gear. I had a problem kind of like yours in the beginning with the table stopping for no apparent reason; no errors, not low air, nothing. It's been two years but I seem to recall I just clicked on Run or similar and it would go. Very big PITA for walking off and leaving the table to complete a lot of cuts while I did something else.

I wound up unchecking a box in the Cut Profile for "Stop on Fault" and have not had the problem occur since. I talked to Bob or Bill or something (I'm terrible with names) over at CandCNC.com and, at some point, came to that choice as a solution. I am not saying CandCNC endorsed the solution and I cannot say that he gave me the idea, but at the end of discussing it with CandCNC.com and my own tinkering that's what I tried and it worked.

What causes which fault that trips...very good questions. But since my stuff is working (and has for two years) I'm reluctant to go chasing those answers down.

FWIW.

But, I will say, I've been happy with the support I've gotten from CandCNC.com and two years later my gear still works and works well. From a software and electronics stand point, I think you can feel comfortable that you got good stuff.

Again, FWIW.

--HC

OTHill
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Re: Trouble using fine cut consumables.

Postby OTHill » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:30 pm

HCB wrote:Dunno if this will help:

I run Mach3 and CandCNC electronics and I'm very happy with my software and gear. I had a problem kind of like yours in the beginning with the table stopping for no apparent reason; no errors, not low air, nothing. It's been two years but I seem to recall I just clicked on Run or similar and it would go. Very big PITA for walking off and leaving the table to complete a lot of cuts while I did something else.

I wound up unchecking a box in the Cut Profile for "Stop on Fault" and have not had the problem occur since. I talked to Bob or Bill or something (I'm terrible with names) over at CandCNC.com and, at some point, came to that choice as a solution. I am not saying CandCNC endorsed the solution and I cannot say that he gave me the idea, but at the end of discussing it with CandCNC.com and my own tinkering that's what I tried and it worked.

What causes which fault that trips...very good questions. But since my stuff is working (and has for two years) I'm reluctant to go chasing those answers down.

FWIW.

But, I will say, I've been happy with the support I've gotten from CandCNC.com and two years later my gear still works and works well. From a software and electronics stand point, I think you can feel comfortable that you got good stuff.

Again, FWIW.

--HC


Hi.You have the right answer for my problem HCB.Thanks so much.I went to the cut profile and unchecked stop on fault and than found out I also had to uncheck Raise head on fault .Now everything seems to be working again.I love simple answers to complicated questions.Thanks again HCB.Allan
5x10 table,Precision plasma gantry,Cand CNC electronics,Hypertherm 65 plasma,King lathe and mill,255 lincoln mig welder.Dawson Creek BC. Much modified Fastcut 4x8 plasma table with Ethercut


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