It is currently Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:28 am

 

Muriatic acid test complete

Learn and share dross removal techniques, experiences, and product knowledge here.
User avatar
little blue choo
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1300
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:38 pm
Location: Cherryville NC
Contact:

Muriatic acid test complete

Postby little blue choo » Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:02 pm

After talking to several people about how long to leave my projects in the acid bath and being told if I left them to long I could ruin them, I decided to test that opinion. I was also told I had mixed my acid too strong. I mixed mine 1 gallon acid to 2 gallons water. I may be able to get by with a weaker mix but that will be another test later. I cut several pieces and put them it in the acid, After 6 hours I took 1 piece out and it looked good. remover the dross and the oil from the 16 gauge P&O. After 24 hours I remover the second piece and had the same great results that I had at the 6 hour mark. Now for the big test, I left the third piece in for 10 DAYS! Guess what? It looks GREAT! NO DAMAGE at all. Hope this helps the people who are new at this. You can leave your projects in the acid and not worry if you can't get back to them right away.

Rick
Rick
Arclight 9600 4x8 table
Hypertherm PM65
Acc. Plate Marker, 4 inch Pipe Cutter, Wood Router package
Quincy Q54 compressor 2 stage, 5hp, 60 gal
Refrigerated air dryer & 4 stage filtration system
Software Mach 3, Sheetcam, Solid Edge 2D, Inkscape

gamble
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 917
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:33 pm

Re: Muriatic acid test complete

Postby gamble » Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:00 pm

I dilute it enough to where I don't see the vapor coming out. It will evaporate over time so don't expect it to last forever.
Torchmate 2x2
Powermax 45 - machine torch
Flashcut CNC Controls & Height control

User avatar
Capstone
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1003
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:42 am
Location: Washington D.C. Metro
Contact:

Re: Muriatic acid test complete

Postby Capstone » Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:09 am

Rick,

That's exactly my experience. I also tested the reverse on timing... how fast could the "dip" work. 1:2 water/acid should work within about an hour or two. I know I've mentioned some of these before, but anyone new it might help...

A couple of hints tips... I went to walmart and bought some small white plastic laundry baskets. Those in the link aren't the exact ones I found, but similar in that they are very pliable and approximately 12x12 with holes on the sides and are great for holding a bunch of small parts that can all be retrieved at once from a larger deep tank, rinsed off all at once and easily carried to where you need them next likely using only one hand.

If parts settle onto eachother, they will prevent full removal, so on larger pieces it's best to use wood/plastic rope to hang pieces into the dip.

Have a water hose immediately ready to spray off the piece right after they come out of the dip and only take out a few pieces at a time, dry them with compressed air immediately and then grab another batch otherwise flash rust will definitely
Phil
It's all relative...
CNC Metal Design
Instagram CNC Metal Design
Cheap Royalty-Free Graphic Stock Images
DIY 4x4", VeloxCNC "Z" & C&CNC, MACH3, SheetCAM
HT PM45, WeldPAK 180

User avatar
acourtjester
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 2795
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:04 pm
Location: Pensacola, Fla

Re: Muriatic acid test complete

Postby acourtjester » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:17 am

I added one step to my procedure I have a tub of water and "washing soda" that I scrub the parts in after the acid bath then full rinse with water and blow dry. That helps to neutralize the acid residue.
DIY 4X4 Plasma/Router Table
CandCNC DTHC-IV & Feather Touch
Hypertherm PM65 Machine Torch
Drag Knife and Scribe
Miller Mig welder
13" metal lathe
Small Mill
Everlast PM 256 tig

gamble
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 917
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:33 pm

Re: Muriatic acid test complete

Postby gamble » Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:52 pm

I added one quick step to mine as of last time I did this and it worked great. I rinse them, patina them and rinse them again and blow them with compressed air. Sometimes you don't get all the water out as it hides and get I feel the longer it takes you to dry the parts the more dull a patina will become. So after I dry it with the compressed air I toss it in the oven at 400 or 450 for about 5 minute to make sure there is no water I missed.

Well, whatever small parts fit in the oven that is.
Torchmate 2x2
Powermax 45 - machine torch
Flashcut CNC Controls & Height control

whiskeymike
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:23 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Muriatic acid test complete

Postby whiskeymike » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:58 pm

Speaking of the laundry basket idea.. How do you know if plastics or materials are okay for acid such as muriatic? I want to pick up some gloves for when working with this. Are house cleaning gloves strong enough? How about thin latex disposables?

User avatar
Capstone
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1003
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:42 am
Location: Washington D.C. Metro
Contact:

Re: Muriatic acid test complete

Postby Capstone » Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:35 pm

whiskeymike wrote:Speaking of the laundry basket idea.. How do you know if plastics or materials are okay for acid such as muriatic? I want to pick up some gloves for when working with this. Are house cleaning gloves strong enough? How about thin latex disposables?


I will on occasion reach in just finger depth with nitrile 5mm gloves on with no effect, but I wouldn't do so without rinsing off my hand and the part with water pretty much immediately. my bigger problem is splashes on to my exposed legs/ankles/feet. I know it's happening because I have rusty holey white socks, but I haven't suffered any major burns. The sleeve long blue ones from Harbor Freight work fine, but they do get tacky/gooey after sitting out for a while, but they aren't affected by the muriatic dip per se, they just get nasty, but they are cheap.
Phil
It's all relative...
CNC Metal Design
Instagram CNC Metal Design
Cheap Royalty-Free Graphic Stock Images
DIY 4x4", VeloxCNC "Z" & C&CNC, MACH3, SheetCAM
HT PM45, WeldPAK 180

User avatar
Capstone
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1003
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:42 am
Location: Washington D.C. Metro
Contact:

Re: Muriatic acid test complete

Postby Capstone » Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:38 pm

acourtjester wrote:I added one step to my procedure I have a tub of water and "washing soda" that I scrub the parts in after the acid bath then full rinse with water and blow dry. That helps to neutralize the acid residue.


I know that SteelFX guru says this step is not really required. Water alone will fully neutralize the acid pretty much immediately, it's thorough drying and getting them dried quickly that prevents rust.

"Also, Muriatic Acid is a household, common name for Hydrochloric acid. It's actually a gas infused into water, hence the 31.45% dilution rate that is common with Muriatic Acid. Once a piece of HR is removed from my acid tank, I rinse & neutralize with plain water. I've never used a base rinse, e.g. Baking Soda (sodium bicarbonate) or any other alkaline
rinse after the acid bath. It's totally unnecessary. Once the gas molecule bearing liquid (muriatic acid) is rinsed, there is no longer any acid on the steel. None.

The neutralizing liquid (OFF-X?) I make is more geared to the other types of acid in the patinas & I only use it when I'm patinating both sides of a piece, to prevent moving residual patina from one side to the other. And, it contains wetting agents & surfactants, along with a base.

There are very, very small amounts of any type of acid in my patinas. Some of them have none. Some have more than one type.

--- Bill "SteelFX"
Phil
It's all relative...
CNC Metal Design
Instagram CNC Metal Design
Cheap Royalty-Free Graphic Stock Images
DIY 4x4", VeloxCNC "Z" & C&CNC, MACH3, SheetCAM
HT PM45, WeldPAK 180

User avatar
little blue choo
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1300
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:38 pm
Location: Cherryville NC
Contact:

Re: Muriatic acid test complete

Postby little blue choo » Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:58 pm

Another tip. Don't just lift one end of the top and slide your piece in without looking to make sure it goes all the way into the acid. I slid one in, didn't look and it caught on another piece and only half of it was in the acid. When I returned the next day I had a bad line cut in the metal. I put it all the way in for another day and removed it to find the bad line was still there. I rinsed it and put a flap disc on it and was able to grind the bad place out. It smoothed right out. I couldn't tell it had been there. Glad I didn't toss it in the scrap pile when I first seen it.

Rick
Rick
Arclight 9600 4x8 table
Hypertherm PM65
Acc. Plate Marker, 4 inch Pipe Cutter, Wood Router package
Quincy Q54 compressor 2 stage, 5hp, 60 gal
Refrigerated air dryer & 4 stage filtration system
Software Mach 3, Sheetcam, Solid Edge 2D, Inkscape

User avatar
edclayton1
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:57 pm
Location: Rathdrum, Idaho

Re: Muriatic acid test complete

Postby edclayton1 » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:01 pm

acourtjester wrote:I added one step to my procedure I have a tub of water and "washing soda" that I scrub the parts in after the acid bath then full rinse with water and blow dry. That helps to neutralize the acid residue.

Last week I finally got around to buying the plastic buckets and the muriatic acid. Since then I've been dunking my last two weeks worth of parts I started cutting since I got my machine built. This process works great. I wish I would have learned about it years ago. It would have saved me a fortune in grinding disks over the years. :lol: Anyway thanks again for sharing this tip I really like it. I had a little bit of searching to find the Boraxo for post cleaning and neutralizing but I did find it a Ace Hardware and its good to have around for cleaning up after working with the metal too.
Now is there an oxidizer for steel so I can make it rust deliberately if I want that look. I'm building some wind chine/bells that I want to look old.

Cheers,
Ed
Home Built 4 * 8 table
Bladerunner
Miller Syncrowave 250 TIG welder
Miller 211 Wirefeed Welder
Bridgeport Mill
Jet 13 * 40 Lathe
Hypertherm Powermax 65
80 gal 2 stage 175 PSI Emax air Compressor

User avatar
acourtjester
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 2795
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:04 pm
Location: Pensacola, Fla

Re: Muriatic acid test complete

Postby acourtjester » Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:36 pm

When you put the parts in the acid bath make sure they don't touch (overlay) you want an even action over the part. The washing soda goes under the name of "Arm & Hammer" most food stores carry it. I tried hanging the parts with ty-wraps (zip ties) but the acid ate them :lol: :oops: .
DIY 4X4 Plasma/Router Table
CandCNC DTHC-IV & Feather Touch
Hypertherm PM65 Machine Torch
Drag Knife and Scribe
Miller Mig welder
13" metal lathe
Small Mill
Everlast PM 256 tig

Bobcat320
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 400
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Muriatic acid test complete

Postby Bobcat320 » Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:13 pm

Copy acourtjester on don't let the parts over lap each other, learned that the hard way as well.
Also, I have left parts in the acid for up to a month just to see what happened, and when I pulled them they looked just as good as the ones that had been in it just overnight.
PlasmaCam DHC2
Hyperthem PM65
Edwards 25T Ironworker
Miller Mig, Tig, Stick & Portable

Why pierce it when you can punch it!

urbnsr
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:13 am

Re: Muriatic acid test complete

Postby urbnsr » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:30 am

Capstone wrote:
acourtjester wrote:I added one step to my procedure I have a tub of water and "washing soda" that I scrub the parts in after the acid bath then full rinse with water and blow dry. That helps to neutralize the acid residue.

I know that SteelFX guru says this step is not really required. Water alone will fully neutralize the acid pretty much immediately, it's thorough drying and getting them dried quickly that prevents rust.


I would think the addition of the washing soda bath would add time until needing to dry if the bath removes the acid. I use it in my water table and some cuts get set off to the side for longer than I planned (days) until being prepped for finishing. I don't dry them (other than natural drip-dry) and no rust appears on those pieces so far. I haven't tested how long and I don't use an acid bath. ...yet.

MIFab
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:47 pm

Re: Muriatic acid test complete

Postby MIFab » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:44 am

I dont understand why mix it? I use full strength and I have been using the same tub for over a yr.

gamble
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 917
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:33 pm

Re: Muriatic acid test complete

Postby gamble » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:00 am

Use a mix so it's not as potent. Especially if you accidentally breathe any of it in. Plus if you are going to leave it sit overnight add some water so you have more acid to work with.
Full strength works great if you only want to soak it for 20 minutes or less.
This is just my opinion.
Torchmate 2x2
Powermax 45 - machine torch
Flashcut CNC Controls & Height control


Return to “Dross/Slag Removal”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest