A few more Steel FX Questions

[Metriccar]

I am trying to figure out what exactly each step's goal is?

I left some copper FX on a piece of sheet metal overnight, and next day it like dried up into small puddles rather than leaving a thin layer covering the entire piece of metal.

What exactly are we doing when we spray water on the metal?
When do we do it and why?
Same for air?
We can apply steel FX to wet or dry metal.

When I look at your video online, I see a series of spraying the steel fx, air spraying, then water, then more steel fx, then water again, etc. I'm not sure why we do what step.

[steelfx]

I am trying to figure out what exactly each step's goal is?

I left some copper FX on a piece of sheet metal overnight, and next day it like dried up into small puddles rather than leaving a thin layer covering the entire piece of metal.

What exactly are we doing when we spray water on the metal?
When do we do it and why?
Same for air?
We can apply steel FX to wet or dry metal.

When I look at your video online, I see a series of spraying the steel fx, air spraying, then water, then more steel fx, then water again, etc. I'm not sure why we do what step.

Hi Metriccar,

After your steel is polished and ready for patinas, you spray water on the steel to remove the grinding dust.
Then, you blow off the excess water with clean, dry shop-air. I like to leave the steel damp, but the patinas work well on bone-dry steel, as well.

As soon as the first patina (usually COPPER F/X?) is applied, rinsing with water freezes the chemical reaction & neutralizes the chemicals. COPPER F/X? should not be in contact with the steel more than 30 seconds, or so before neutralizing. Leaving it on overnight is a bit too long. (11:59:30 too long)

Then, with the steel still wet, you will apply secondary patinas, e.g. TORCH F/X? (for Leathery Reds & Bright Blues), PEWTER F/X? or GOLD RUST F/X? (to darken areas of the COPPER F/X?), or any of the other patinas to add color variation and depth.

After each application of secondary patinas, hitting it with a little spray of water will prevent streaks, darkening & neutralize the color, allowing you to move around the piece with different colors & effects.

So, water is to clean the steel in preparation for the patinas and to neutralize the reaction of each patina, followed by a final water rinse when all of the patina work is done, to further neutralize and rinse away any remaining chemicals that may cause unwanted rusting if you were to not rinse well enough.

It doesn't take a lot of water to neutralize or final rinse. You could even use a Pump Sprayer for your rinse water, if that's more user-friendly than a garden hose.

I also use the water as a shield while I'm applying patina/s, to keep the patina away from an area that I don't want it to color. Sorry the videos are confusing.

Then, you need to quickly force-dry the patinated steel with clean, dry shop-air & handling it by the edges only, set it aside, ready for clear-coat.

thanks,

Bill

[Marty]

Metriccar
I follow the Metal Finishing forum and saw your questions about applying patina I had remembered trying to help with this type of problem in the past so I searched thru my old posts and lo and behold found your post from exactly 60 days ago April 1st You were having similiar issues back then and for what is worth, you will be happy to hear that the answers, at least for your patina application issues, are still the same! That should be good news , at least it is for me, because no need to re write this time, all I have to do is copy and paste the link this time. Here is the link to my encouraging post from 8 weeks ago, please review there will be a test just kidding I think? http://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=13041

Marty

[Metriccar]

Thanks, that helps a lot.

I n the video I just saw alternating between spraying water, patina, and air and just wasn't sure what each were trying to accomplish.

When you say "neutralize" the chemicals, what exactly does that mean? The chemicals are no longer penetrating and changing the color of the metal?

It seems a big part of my problem was dipping the metal in a water tank instead of spraying it off. It seems whenever I dipped it in the tank, I washed all the patina off and the metal never actually changed color. SO I just got one of those hand pressurized water sprayers at Home Depot for $15 and having much better luck. The metal is actually changing color very quickly now.

I still have a few issues though. Mainly water marks and little spots that REFUSE to change color, rather stay the same color of the metal. I am still using faucet water. I can try distilled bottled if I need to but wanted to show these pictures first.

I have a few pictures of a kokopelli that I used Auburn patina on.

In this picture you will see a certain area that as I sprayed the water off with the air hose, I got a bunch of water streak marks.

discoloration and streaks.JPG

Another example

run marks.JPG

In this picture you see little specs of metal where the patina refused to cover that spot... now that I'm thinking of it maybe it was oil on the metal from handling it? If not fore the metal spots in this picture, this is the effect I am looking for.

white spots.JPG

Another image just for critique.

minor run marks.JPG

[Marty]

Metriccar
Looks like you are on the right track Contaminants (like oil) are a definite no no and cause spotting , streaking etc The other streaking is just run off of patina A longer water rinse and or applying the patina/rinse water while the piece is left HORIZONTAL may help but with practice practice practice you will be able to control streaking better Be sure to rinse the backside as well as the front THOROUGHLY , that helps to avoid streaking Glad you got away from rinsing by dipping in a tank of water A CLEAN water source is a must have

As an artist, One of the very cool things I like about the patinas from Steel F/X, is that they create original, one of a kind finishes on every piece. I tell my customers that I cannot predict the exact outcome of the patina finish, there will be variations in saturation and hues, but I also tell them that that is the very reason I use them........properly appled paint will have a very uniform color and hue across the metal , properly applied patina will not always be uniform in color and hue.......dont expect the uniformity of paint, but learn to love the randomness of patina finish......

Are you clearcoating after applying patina?

To me, once you apply a nice gloss Clearcoat, to the pieces in the pictures you sent, you have some nice looking artwork. There is an exellant Clearcoat system on the Steel F/X website here is a link http://steelfxpatinas.com/shop/supplies/deltron-dc3000/

Keep on trying you are on track I think


Marty

[kb3gun]

One thing I'll add to the answers you already received is to use clean, filtered air to spray off the water.

When I first started, I would polish my steel and clean it off with a solvent to remove any oils. I would notice that after wetting and then using air to clear off the water, my patinas would bead in certain areas and not absorb the patinas. This indicated oil on my steel.

As the air line I use at the sink isn't filtered from the compressor like my plasma is, I added a cheap screw on filter to my air nozzle to prevent any contaminants from hitting the steel. This has fixed my problem.

[Metriccar]

Are there any other application/finishing methods other than spraying out of the bottle and clear coating? Do some use a cloth or buff after spraying? I look at the pictures at steel fx and I'm still a long ways from the finish quality of the examples on there.
I'm also using the same air hose as what goes into my plasma cutter. It has a 3 stage filter on it. Using drinking water seemed to help with the water marks. Ill try posting more pics. They may be gone but I have to look in the sun to compare.

Anyone deal with water marks?