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Topcoat time...

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Cracker Red
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Topcoat time...

Postby Cracker Red » Sat May 31, 2014 9:16 pm

Looking at ordering some patina finishing items (F/X most likely) and I've searched but can't find the answer....

How long after I patina something (like copper, bronze, etc) do I have to top coat it with a clear? A day? 48 hours?

Trying to decide if I should build my own PC oven, continue to use the PC guys that I have been (although they can take up to a week to get something done), or start spraying 2k clear (unsure how much health risks are involved from occasional outside use).

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steelfx
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Re: Topcoat time...

Postby steelfx » Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:35 am

Cracker Red wrote:Looking at ordering some patina finishing items (F/X most likely) and I've searched but can't find the answer....

How long after I patina something (like copper, bronze, etc) do I have to top coat it with a clear? A day? 48 hours?

Trying to decide if I should build my own PC oven, continue to use the PC guys that I have been (although they can take up to a week to get something done), or start spraying 2k clear (unsure how much health risks are involved from occasional outside use).


Hi Cracker Red,

Wait time for clear-coating can be just a few minutes. If you force-dry with clean shop-air & are certain you've hit all the edges, as well as the front & back, you're 'good to go'. If in doubt, you can wait an hr. or so. Or, you can even put an Infra-Red (IR) lamp on your piece/s for a while. Tip: Always go over your piece/s with a clean, lint-free tack rag just before shooting your clear.

2-part (2K) clear has several advantages over Powder-Coating Clear, but use what you're most comfortable with.

As far as respiratory safety when shooting any clear-coat, as long as you wear a half-mask with "organic vapor" cartridges, the risk is zero to none. Shooting clear (or any solvent based paint) is only a health risk if you wear no respirator.

thanks,

Bill :)
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Re: Topcoat time...

Postby tnbndr » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:56 am

Theo:
I have used the 2K clear spray with amazing results and easy to use, just be sure metal is clean and dry as Bill states.
It is a bit expensive though, I built the cost into the couple of projects I used it on.
I am now looking toward using the Deltron clear coat.
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Re: Topcoat time...

Postby RGR » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:22 pm

Along the same lines, How long can a piece be wait to be top coated? For example, say you treated a piece with copper f/x and didnt clear coat that day. How long is too long too wait before getting some sort of topcoat on the piece? Thanks

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Re: Topcoat time...

Postby SeanP » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:37 am

Can I just ask Bill what are the advantages of using 2k clear?

Thanks

steelfx wrote:2-part (2K) clear has several advantages over Powder-Coating Clear, but use what you're most comfortable with.
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Re: Topcoat time...

Postby steelfx » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:21 pm

SeanP wrote:Can I just ask Bill what are the advantages of using 2k clear?

Thanks

steelfx wrote:2-part (2K) clear has several advantages over Powder-Coating Clear, but use what you're most comfortable with.
Bill


Hi Sean,

Here's a few of the advantages of 2-Part Clear vs. Clear PC:

(Note: If you have your own PC System & Using Top-Quality, UVI Powder, the advantages I've found may not apply to you).

1) Greater Product Longevity
2) More Clarity (Water-Clear/Non-Yellowing)
3) No Chance of Heat-Affected Patina Color Shift
4) Less Cost Per SF
5) Less Time
6) Controllable Film-Thickness
7) Ability to Add Metal Flake or Tint Before Shooting the Clear
8) Can Do 1 Piece w/o waiting for more pieces to go in oven
9) 15-Min. Full Cure w/ Infrared Curing Lamp (<$200)
10) Easier "oops" Corrections

Those are just some of the advantages I've found over the years...

thanks,

Bill :)
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steelfx
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Re: Topcoat time...

Postby steelfx » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:24 pm

RGR wrote:Along the same lines, How long can a piece be wait to be top coated? For example, say you treated a piece with copper f/x and didnt clear coat that day. How long is too long too wait before getting some sort of topcoat on the piece? Thanks


RGR,

As long as your storing conditions & humidity will allow. If a little flash-rust develops, it can be removed with a tack-cloth. If too much rust develops in high humidity (above 45%, for example)...you may have to buzz off the patina and/or dye finish & start over.

I've stored pieces for over 30 Days (& beyond) before I clear-coated, but I live in the desert southwest.

thanks,

Bill
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Re: Topcoat time...

Postby SeanP » Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:11 pm

Thanks Bill, some good points to think about there, I keep toying with the PC idea.
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Re: Topcoat time...

Postby modelaratrod » Sun May 15, 2016 9:33 pm

Bill do you have a link to the infrared curing lamp you use?
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steelfx
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Re: Topcoat time...

Postby steelfx » Sun May 15, 2016 10:57 pm

Try this: http://goo.gl/vtvSls

It's the exact same model that I have.

Bill :o)
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Re: Topcoat time...

Postby kolor inc » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:57 pm

Looking to getting in the patina colors, i am set up to pc with good size oven.
so the heat is ok on the patina for clearing in oven?
sorry all new to this patina thing.

thanks in advance

scott

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Re: Topcoat time...

Postby little blue choo » Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:22 pm

I just clear coated 12 pieces tonight that I patinaed yesterday morning. I routinely let pieces sit for days before clear coating. That way I can do 10 or 12 at a time and not one at a time. I have let some sit for over a week and had no problem.

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steelfx
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Re: Topcoat time...

Postby steelfx » Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:49 pm

Hi,
Here's what I've found, although I've never owned my own oven:

Clear Powder-Coating over the Patinas and Dyes is Fine, if Done Properly.

Some of the lighter colored patinas, like COPPER F/X™ will sometimes change to a darker hue, usually a light greenish-gold, but in general, no problem with powder-coating if the time & heat in the oven is kept to a minimum.

COPPER F/X™ seems to be the ONLY patina that I make that reacts to the Powder-Coat Oven Heat w/ a slight color change. The best practice is to NOT let the steel "cool-down" in the oven. Remove, or have it removed as soon as the flow-out & recommended temp./time cycle has elapsed.

I don't use powder-coat clear on any of my work for that very reason. Automotive clear is far superior, both in quality & appearance. (That's just my personal opinion & experience with the local powder-coaters in my area). Your results & the quality of the powder used may be just as good or better than a good automotive clear)..

It is critically important to protect the patinated steel from oxygen & moisture. If not, the surfaces will darken & rust. Especially if the humidity where you're working is above 45%.

Most of you know that I use an Automotive Clear-Coat made by PPG®. It's called, "DELTRON DC3000". It's on my site, if you choose to try it sometime, or you might find it at a PPG Shop that sells to the Collision Market. I also have a 2-Part Clear that rivals the beauty of DELTRON, and it comes in an Aerosol Spray Can. It's called, 'SprayMax 2k'.

Both Clears utilize a catalyst in a 4:1 mix for an Ultra-Clear, Deep (Film Thickness of 1.6-1.8mil), High-Gloss Finish w/ Excellent UV Inhibiting Properties. It leaves your work with a "Dipped in Glass" appearance, similar to a high-quality PC. As you probably know, Powder-Coat Clears come in a lot of varying degrees of Quality & Gloss Factor, as well as the level of UVA & UVB Resistance.

But, Rest Assured... you can use any clear-coat that you're comfortable with, even PC!

It is Highly Advisable to tack-rag the patinated steel just prior to shooting on the clear-coat, whether it is powder-coat or automotive clear, to remove any flash-rust, even if the flash-rust is not visible to the naked eye.

And, it goes without saying that all welding needs to be done before the clear-coat.

Hope that helps a little.

Thanks,

Bill
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Re: Topcoat time...

Postby GDS Metal Worx » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:32 am

Nice write up Bill. Thanks for that. I have been using clear powder over all my work, mainly because I do powder coating in house so its cheaper. I did use a can of the spaymax 2k this weekend that I had bought from you a while back and I have to say that it does have a real nice gloss, lays so smooth and cured fast when put in my oven at 130 degrees for 25 minutes. I do have a question for you and tried to get ahold of you last week. I have been making a ton of the battle worn flags and using your red and blue dye for them. Sometimes after i do the clear powder, there will be small blisters or bubble on the finish. Is this caused from the solvent not being completely evaporated off, or from something else? Also, do you do any kind of bulk discount for your dye? I have been buying it from you in 8oz jars, but it does not go too far, especially when i get an order for 5 or 6 4 foot flags. I ran out of dye over the weekend and tried to use fabric dye and acetone, it worked, but not as well as your dye. I like using your dye and have been thinning it out to go a little farther, but I need it in a bigger quantity, like 16 or 32 oz bottles.
Thanks

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steelfx
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Re: Topcoat time...

Postby steelfx » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:12 pm

Yes, you can email me for quantity pricing on the dyes.
Im not a PC expert by any means, but the dyes wouldn't be the source of any blistering. The solvent flash is less than 1 minute.
[email protected].
Thanks.
Bill
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Re: Topcoat time...

Postby little blue choo » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:45 pm

Bill, sometimes I got small blisters in my clear coat when I applied it heavy just after applying the dyes. I also got some bleeding of the dyes. I found that if I wait 10 minutes or so all these problems go away. Since I started giving it a little time to dry I have done many pieces with no more problems. Weather it's the type of clear I use or who no's what the answer was to give it a little time. I only say this because it may make someone else's experience with your dyes a better one. Love your products.

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