Having issues with the new table...couple of new guy ??'s

[shiner2001]

I just got my BurnTables 4x2 set up yesterday and have spent several hours trying to get it all dialed in. I'm having hell getting it to finish a cut, even just cutting a circle or square. The most common problem seems to be that it stops and starts the torch movement several times before it finishes a part, but it rarely even finishes before it just stops movement and torch firing altogether. Here are a few pictures in which you can see better what's going on. I am brand new to the CNC world and was hoping someone could offer me some insight while I wait on the folks at BurnTables to get back to me. I'm using a Powermax 45 with a machine torch, just fyi. The software is SheetCam and Mach3. In order to try to get my THC set up correctly, I have even tried just cutting a 12" line along the Y axis. The most of that line I was able to get cut before the machine would stop firing was about half of it, and even on that there were a couple of start/stops along the way, leading to burn out holes. I can't figure out what is telling the machine to start/stop movement, but I think it's THC related because I can turn off THC and it dry runs a part perfectly with no extra stops.

Thanks in advance!!

--Derek

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[ssbn.981]

not a pro either. i am using a torchmate system.
can you watch the machine code run without cutting and then watch it when you are cutting?
is your air pressure constant?
pierce height and cut height correct?
voltage settings correct?
just some ideas.
sure there is someone on the site that has had this problem and will get you
headed in the right direction.

[shiner2001]

The code scrolls until it gets to the point where it either stops and starts again for stops completely. The air pressure is good. Pierce height is good (I think)? and the cut height should be good too (although it seems like a lot of the straight line cuts don't penetrate all the way through). Can't see the voltage settings on BurnTables's version of Mach 3, so I don't know.

[weldor2005]

A shot in the dark idea, is the plasma cutter ground attached good to the table/work?

Kind of looks like it is going as a plasma will if you were to just pull the trigger in the air, and then cutting out since there is no ground sensing. This would explain a good dry run also as it wont look for that signal.

[shiner2001]

I tried clamping my ground directly to the workpiece yesterday and got the same results. Here are today's attempted 12" straight lines. It stops every 1.5". No idea how many 1.5" segments I'll get every time, but you can see the results of about 16 or so attempts here (chalked between each run). Also, the very bottom straight, good cut was with the THC turned off and the pierce and cut height set in Sheetcam.

IMG_1229.jpg

[dustywill]

Can you post up the straight line g code for us. to rule out the code being the problem. I would not expect more than about 20 lines and only 3 are really doing the cutting.

I use the same torch and cutter. Mine don't look like that and never have. The voltage setting should be in the THC.

[shiner2001]

Can you post up the straight line g code for us. to rule out the code being the problem. I would not expect more than about 20 lines and only 3 are really doing the cutting.

I use the same torch and cutter. Mine don't look like that and never have. The voltage setting should be in the THC.

I won't be back in the shop for a couple more days, but I can get that code then. The cut that was made with the THC turned off was perfect, and was from the same drawing as this one. THe only differences that were made were inputting the pierce and cut height in SheetCam instead of letting the THC handle them, so I doubt the code is the problem, but I'll get it for you when I can. Also, if you'll notice in the other pictures, you'll see the same stop/start behavior on all the difference shapes I tried to cut. Not sure if this tells anyone anything or not.

[iacreate]

I also just bought a burntables (4x8) machine and i'm using a powermax45 too. Had it setup for about a week and a half now and I am running into a lot of the same issues and was having quite a bit of trouble getting answers and the help i needed from burntables. A couple of the things that may be issues for you are your torch speed and the software you are using to create the dxf files. Maybe we can help each other get our machines running right. If you want, email me at halbur_ryan@hotmail.com and I will send you my number and we can talk that way too. I was using coreldraw and exporting to dxf but found that it was causing issues witht eh gcode that was created from it in sheetcam. If you cut speed is too slow, it can cause your height controller to plunge the torch into the steel. That might be part of your issue. Burntables also told me that if the grounding rod that is connected to the control box is too close to another grounding rod like the grounding rod for your buildings electrical panel, it can get feedback and disrupt signals there too.

[ssbn.981]

i don't know anything about the software you are using.

i have had some cuts like you are showing but only when the tip got to close or to far
away from the material and when some of the consumables were kinda flawed.
i had some warped material and that caused the problem. to close to far.

it also seems according to your pictures that the pierce holes are a bit large.

you might also make sure the tip you are using is rated for the amperage
your machine is set at.

sorry i can't be of more help.

[Metriccar]

I would try getting in touch with Thom at CandCNC. If you can cut fine without THC that should eliminate a lot of things (air pressure/quality etc).

[_Ogre]

i'm also new at this. check your sheetcam screen for segmented lines and arc. click on the "S'' button to see where all of your starts are. if you have a start at each blow out then your cad work needs some polishing up.

[shiner2001]

Hey guys sorry for the response delay, been away from the computer (and table) for a couple days.

I also just bought a burntables (4x8) machine and i'm using a powermax45 too. Had it setup for about a week and a half now and I am running into a lot of the same issues and was having quite a bit of trouble getting answers and the help i needed from burntables. A couple of the things that may be issues for you are your torch speed and the software you are using to create the dxf files. Maybe we can help each other get our machines running right. If you want, email me at halbur_ryan@hotmail.com and I will send you my number and we can talk that way too. I was using coreldraw and exporting to dxf but found that it was causing issues witht eh gcode that was created from it in sheetcam. If you cut speed is too slow, it can cause your height controller to plunge the torch into the steel. That might be part of your issue. Burntables also told me that if the grounding rod that is connected to the control box is too close to another grounding rod like the grounding rod for your buildings electrical panel, it can get feedback and disrupt signals there too.

I'd definitely like to be in touch with other BT owners so we can compare notes trying to get these set up, especially with the 45. I'm thinking about upgrading to the 65 if that will help, this kind of performance and headache for the life of the table won't be acceptable.

i'm also new at this. check your sheetcam screen for segmented lines and arc. click on the "S'' button to see where all of your starts are. if you have a start at each blow out then your cad work needs some polishing up.

I'll check that out when I get back to the table this week. I know for sure that I only had one start point on everything I've been trying to cut, but I'm bot familiar off the top of my head for the segmented lines and arc. Still learning all this software, so I'll have to be sitting in front of it to answer that.

For what it's worth, although I've been having some typical new guy problems with this setup, I'm not trying to throw the guys at BT under the bus. They've been extremely responsive and willing to help at every request. That being said, I still have a table that is unusable, but hopefully we'll get there!

[jimcolt]

The only way the plasma (Powermax45) can stop and restart is if the cnc control is stopping it, then restarting. Most likely the cause of this is in the actual gcode of the part program. Have someone with experience with your software look at the code developed for the parts you have the problems with....and help you determine what is going wrong with the drawing/gcode process. That is likely where you will find the fix.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

[shiner2001]

The only way the plasma (Powermax45) can stop and restart is if the cnc control is stopping it, then restarting. Most likely the cause of this is in the actual gcode of the part program. Have someone with experience with your software look at the code developed for the parts you have the problems with....and help you determine what is going wrong with the drawing/gcode process. That is likely where you will find the fix.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

Jim, would that mean that Sheetcam is where the problem probably lies, since that's what I am generating the code with? Also, what are your thoughts on why it cuts ok with the THC off, but not with it on? That's why I was assuming it was a THC problem and not a drawing/coding problem. But then again, I'm the one here who has next to no experience with any of this, ha.

I'll get some G Code when I get back to the table. Can I post it here for some analysis? If so, what's the best way to copy it...meaning where and in what program can I access it without having to transcribe it by hand from the G Code window in Mach 3?

[shiner2001]

Not entirely sure why this thread got moved, but it's probably buried now. I know it references a specific brand of table, but it also could help others with similar problems if they could only see it, which probably won't happen in the "various manufacturers" sub-category. Hopefully those that have already responded will be able to help me keep chasing the problem.

[shiner2001]

Many thanks to the admin for allowing this to return to the general board. I have a feeling I'm gonna need as many eyes on this as possible, ha.

Anyway, back to the table today (will be here for the next few) and got some of the files that I have been trying to work with. I hope they work as attachments on here...

Dig in, guys.

(OK, two of the three files I tried to attach weren't accepted (.tap and .gr), but the .dxf file was. Let me know if I need to do something different or if yall need something else to hopefully help out).

line12y.dxf

[muzza]

That file is just 1 straight line and appears fine.

You cant post a tap file here but you can cut and paste the G code to a notepad or other and post that so we can see if there is something wrong in the code.

I've not had anything to do with Burntable so I don't know what customising or personalising they may do to the Sheetcam or Mach3 software but my way of thinking is that if it cuts fine with THC turned off but does this stop start with the THC on you problem must lay somewhere in the THC not the code itself.
I have seen others posting here and elsewhere with problems relating to Burntables THC and from memory one here including a reply from Burntables that their THC wont work with finecut consumables, not sure why or what is different in the way their THC is setup but it must be different to others to not work with finecuts. If you can't get this solved with Burntables I'd suggest contacting Tom at CandCNC to see if he offers some sort of retrofit to get you going.

Sorry I can't be more help.
Murray

[shiner2001]

That file is just 1 straight line and appears fine.

You cant post a tap file here but you can cut and paste the G code to a notepad or other and post that so we can see if there is something wrong in the code.

I've not had anything to do with Burntable so I don't know what customising or personalising they may do to the Sheetcam or Mach3 software but my way of thinking is that if it cuts fine with THC turned off but does this stop start with the THC on you problem must lay somewhere in the THC not the code itself.
I have seen others posting here and elsewhere with problems relating to Burntables THC and from memory one here including a reply from Burntables that their THC wont work with finecut consumables, not sure why or what is different in the way their THC is setup but it must be different to others to not work with finecuts. If you can't get this solved with Burntables I'd suggest contacting Tom at CandCNC to see if he offers some sort of retrofit to get you going.

Sorry I can't be more help.
Murray

I was trying to find where I could cut/copy the gcode from so that I could paste it somewhere else and post here, but I couldn't figure out where. Is there a menu selection in Mach3 that allows me to do this?

Also, from a troubleshooting standpoint, I agree with the idea that it is the THC and not a drawing/code problem. When I scroll line by line through this gcode, the whole 12" section lights up on one line of cut code, so I know it's not broken up from a code standpoint like it is showing when I actually put the torch to the table.

As far as consumables, I'm using whatever came with the torch, which I bought from BT, so I would hope that it's right.

[muzza]

If that's the case I'd pretty much rule out code error.

I also think from previous Burntable posts that their Mach3 display doesn't show a lot of the details while cutting ie torch volts, preset volts, torch up, torch down etc. to see if its going outside the upper or lower fault limit which makes it a bit hard. If you can check those what is your torch volts showing as and what are your fault limits set at ?
Does it restart the cut after stopping by itself or do you have to do that?

Did you set the THC and run through the checks etc. or was that supposed to have been done by Burntables? ie was it shipped as a tested and running table?
Murray

[muzza]

I thought I'd read about THC problems with Burntable here before so I used the search and came up with this one, http://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.p ... burn+table there are others but it could be worthwhile contacting some of these guys to see how they ended up resolving things.
Murray

[shiner2001]

You are correct; the BT version of Mach3 is quite dumbed down. I was just in the shop discussing the fact that you indeed can not see the torch voltage. I was also discussing the feasibility of hooking up an external volt meter so that I could indeed see what it was reading. I assume it is that number that you try to match to the voltage specs in the Hypertherm manual? Also, I have no idea what the upper and lower fault limit is you are referring to, so I assume that's something else I've been blinded to by BT. Is there a way to reconfigure Mach 3 to show me what I WANT to see instead of what someone else wants me to see or is it "locked" once a manufacturer tailors it?

No, it does not restart the cut, I have to do that manually. It stops mid-code and I have to rezero and rewind the code to start another attempt.

As far as setting the THC, there was one tool programmed in Sheetcam when I picked up the table, and I entered in another to match the material that I was testing on. Yes, it was shipped/sold (I picked it up at the factory) as a tested and running table. Concerning the toolset in Sheetcam, I asked the same question in another post, but I'll repeat it here. How do I load the tool settings that are included on the Arclight page into Sheetcam. When I hit the download button, I just get a new tab full of text, which I can copy and paste, but in Sheetcam it is looking for something with a .tool extension, not a text file. The file that I am referring to is at the bottom of this page:

http://arclightcnc.com/training.html

[shiner2001]

I thought I'd read about THC problems with Burntable here before so I used the search and came up with this one, http://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.p ... burn+table there are others but it could be worthwhile contacting some of these guys to see how they ended up resolving things.
Murray

I've read and reread that thread several times for sure. I do need to ask some of those guys what they ended up doing. Also thinking about calling (maybe visiting) CandCNC to see what they would suggest. I was already preparing to upgrade to the 65 since BT told me my 45 was really finicky with their THC, but it looks like for way less than that maybe I can just upgrade this less than stellar THC setup.

[shiner2001]

I spent some time on the phone today with the guys at BT and think I may finally be on my way out of the THC woods. It took some more adjusting and I think I might have finally stumbled upon the very very narrow window of happiness between my HT45 and the BT THC. Here are a couple of early results...

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[GPM870]

Shiner2001 when or if you figure it out let me know. I have been fighting with my table for a year and a half with the same results. I have even modified my drawings so there weren't any long cuts, I break them up into shorter sections. Yes, it is hell on consumables from a lot of extra pierces but at least I don't have to rewind the G code that far when I have to recut a section. If I do a sign or something with some detail I can usually get about 3 minutes on the Mach time counter before I have to rewind and recut. I have contacted different companies about getting different controls and scrapping what I have... no one wants to touch it. Best of luck to you.
Gerry

[shiner2001]

Shiner2001 when or if you figure it out let me know. I have been fighting with my table for a year and a half with the same results. I have even modified my drawings so there weren't any long cuts, I break them up into shorter sections. Yes, it is hell on consumables from a lot of extra pierces but at least I don't have to rewind the G code that far when I have to recut a section. If I do a sign or something with some detail I can usually get about 3 minutes on the Mach time counter before I have to rewind and recut. I have contacted different companies about getting different controls and scrapping what I have... no one wants to touch it. Best of luck to you.
Gerry

I don't know what exactly made my table start working other than finding the sweet spot on the THC knob. It's cutting really nicely right now, and I have new consumables on order, so it should get a little better once those come in.