Cutter questions

[erichsmith]

I am new to this site and let me tell you I love it. I currently use my fathers Waterjet but I am limited on how much "play" I can do on it. We use it for fabrication of race and restoration car parts. I am the main AUTOCAD guy in the shop especially for hard to draw stuff but I want to do some art cutting. I can do it but only after hours and when there is nothing else to cut (which is rare). I also have my own welding and fabrication business that keeps me busy as well. So I am wanting to purchase a plasma CNC (I can't afford my own waterjet or that's what I'd buy). I have noticed there are TONS of Plasmacam users on this site but my personal experiance with Plasmacam has been less than desirable. We had a Plasmacam years ago and it was crap according to my dad and the only other guy still there that was there when he had it. I have looked at a number of them and I am leaning towards a Torchmate but just looking for pros and cons and maybe even some suggestions that I have not looked at yet. So feel free to be brutally honest I am a metalworker and nothing bothers me.

[Loyd]

I have owned a P-cam for over 3 years. I have been a machinist for over 30 years. Used to build jigs and fixtures for F-16, F-18, L-1011, Maverick Missiles and Blackhawk helicopters. I was also a tool and cutter grinder for cnc machines. Compared to a high end machine like I am sure your Dad's waterjet is, just about any of the low end plasma cutting machines would fall into the category of your dad's description, however, I use my P-cam every day for production and artwork. It is a good machine for the money.
If money is not an object then I would maybe do something different. Think about it, It moves in X and Y, does it very well, the cutting is done by a plasma machine, in my case a Hypertherm 1250 or 380 whichever I hook up to. I chose it because of monetary restraints, could I have done better?, probably but I am happy with what it does.
Loyd

[jimcolt]

PlasmaCam, TorchMate and a few other brands of cnc entry level plasma machines all work very well for what they are intended for. If you pay $10k or so for a cnc plasma machine.....you should not expect it to be in the same class as a $150k abrasive water jet machine. That being said, there are many industrial quality cnc plasma systems in the $75k to over $150k price range that will operate at high production rates and with very nice precision.....these system use advanced high definition class plasma systems....not air plasma systems as the entry level machines do.

Water Jet, Laser and high definition, as well as entry level air plasma systems all have their cutting capabilities niche. I have been in many shops that have each of the processes. In a nutshell here are some comparative notes:

Laser. Highly productive on steel and stainless sheet stock (under 3/16" thick). Acuracies in the range of .005"....with the right equipment. High maintenance levels required to keep optics clean and in focus. cost per foot of cut is moderate, purchase cost is high.

Abrasive water jet. High input power consumption (50+ HP pump), high operating cost, low speeds (compared to plasma and laser) acuracy comparable with laser, and there is no heat affected zone. This process will cut almost anything. Very messy, abrasive slurry. High cost per foot of cut, high purchase price.

High Definition class plasma. The most productive (fast cut speeds) on all metals above 3/16". can cut with excellent quality down to gauge materials...at speeds that are faster than water jet but slower than laser. Easy to maintain and operate. Lowest cost per foot of cut, moderate purchase price, low power consumption. Typical cut part accuracy in the .015" range.

Entry level air plasma systems. Generally are for producing low volume of parts, although cut speeds and quality are respectable. Typical cut part accuracy in the .030" range. Perfect for artwork, and for new cnc programmer/operators....easy learning curve. Lowest cost per foot....next to high definition plasma, lowest purchase price.

I have owned two PlasmaCams.....perfect for my home shop use, and for artwork applications. I suspect the Torchmates and other entry level brands would perform similarly.

Jim Colt

[jeeplogic83]

In my experience the best bang for you buck would to build your own machine. You have the tools available to build your own table. the gantry table is not rocket science and just about all of the parts are available through McMaster Carr online. My table is made mostly from 80/20 aluminum frame. The few parts that are not available are machined from 6061 aluminum that you could do on your water jet machine. Then talk to Tom at http://www.candcnc.com for the electronics I would bet you could build a machine for about 5-6k that would run better than a majority of the entry level machines available. I wish I had built my machine but have basically done that after my machine went to crap. I would not under any circumstances buy a machine from Precision Automated Equipment PAE in Eaton Rapids MI. formally known as Practical CNC. There customer service is horrible.
Just my $.02

[Loyd]

Oh, did I forget to mention? My P-cam has paid for itself (including the 2 plasma cutters) in 3 years almost 4 times. That's nice.....
Loyd

[DumOleBob]

I've had two PlasmaCams over ten years and would certainly buy one again. The biggesat problem I've seen is folks buying one and not even bothering to study the tutorial. Ya gotta read da book!

[Loyd]

Good advice. I would suspect that some people buy a low end machine and expect miracles. I cut hundreds of various parts at a time and you can stack them up and they
are very close to the same size. I would venture to say consistently within .015 ....that's three sheets of paper thickness. I have operated many different types of machine tools and grinders.....they ALL have a learning curve, some more, some less.
Loyd

[erichsmith]

In my experience the best bang for you buck would to build your own machine.

I have thought about doing this and it is an option for me to consider. Thanks for all the info I will take this and as soon as I have made a decision I will post.

[precision]

Eric,
You may want to look at machines made by a company called "EZ-Router". I own one of there 4' X 8' tables and have had very good success with it. It is extremely heavy built, all welded construction, and comes fully assembled. My table can be used for both plasma cutting, and CNC router work by changing the Z-axis. ( takes about a 1/2 hr to change the axis, remove the plasma grates, and install spoiler boards for routing.)
The machine is a beast, weighting in at about 1000 lbs. has 4" of gantry clearance in plasma mode, and nearly 8" for router work.
Uses Mach 3 control software.
Just adding my 2 cents worth. I know a lot of people use plasma cam, but i felt the machine was to light weight for my needs, and the cost of my EZ-Router table was actually less at the time i bought it than plasma cam.

Mike

[bignoles]

Eric,
Lots of experience on this site. While I don't have first hand knowledge of all of the machines, I will tell you that our Torchmate 3, 5' x 10' is a great machine. Currently running a Hypertherm 1650 with machine torch. Have cut up to 5/8" steel and 1/2" stainless without a hitch. Of course there are what I assume to be normal concerns like keeping the racks clean and dry air. We also have to watch the gear on the Y axis as it will tend to loosen up after 2-3 hours of use, simple tightening of a set screw and it's good to go. I'm sure there will be quirks with whatever machine you buy. Only word of advice I can give is to buy or build a large enough table. There are days that I wish I had a 12' table. Do your homework and get what works for YOU. If you have questions about the TM feel free to send me a PM or ask here. I'll try to be unbiased but I do like the TM as it has paid for itself and more in less than 6 months!
bignoles

By the way, I don't cut much art stuff. Most of what I do is for fabrication but am trying to become more "artsy"

[jerrybarrett]

I am running two PC machines at the present time with Hypertherm 1650 . I seldem have a problem production cutting. I ahave recently started doing some artwork. I cut ss plate 3/16--1/4 and mild steel from 16 ga. to 1 1/2 thick. Jerry Barrett

[bignoles]

Jerry,
Do you have any pictures or videos of cutting 1"+ mild steel? I would LOVE to see them. I have been leery of cutting anything over 3/4" since that's what the manual recommends for the 1650 on a machine.
Dang it, now I'm gonna have to try it, hold my beer and watch this!
I did get good results on 1/2" SS, but at that cost, I don't think I'll be practicing much. By the way what type machine are you running?
bignoles

[jerrybarrett]

I have a DHC and DHC-2 Plasma Cam. I cut all of my thick material on the DHC-2 because it is the newest machine but i cut up to 5/8'' on older machine. On the thick material you will have to either have to edge start or drill starting hole. I set plasma and air setting higher and also set pierce time and cont after cut longer. Cut travel inches have to be slooooow. Try it on some scrap you will be amazed . I dont have any pics but next time i cut thick i will post some. If you have questions contact me jerrybarrett@cableone.net jerry

[jimcolt]

I just cut a cross wedge for a log splitter on my DHC2 with a Powermax 45 out of 3/4" steel. Angles on the wedge were cut on the PlasmaCam as line segments with the torch mounted at a 45 degree angle....a little time consuming to set it up, but the result was nice. The 45 is conservatively rated by Hypertherm for 3/8" mechanized cutting, although I regularly pierce 1/2" and edge start and cut to 1".

Jim Colt

wedgeparts.jpg

[jimcolt]

And here is a picture of the wedge on my 6 year old log splitter..the wedge center piece was 1" steel with two 45 degree bevels....these were cut on my old PlasmaCam 98z with a Hypertherm Powermax1000.

Jim

IMG_2305.jpg

[jimcolt]

I figured I may as well show the splitter....its 6 years old, I personally have split about 18 to 20 cord, who knows how many my friends that borrow it have done. I added the side log shelves with my name cut into them so they remeber where they borrowed this from. Notice the main beam also serves as the hydraulic tank, the motor (11hp, electric start) and the wheels came from a discarded Sears lawn tractor at the dump....every piece of metal is cut with a Hypertherm Powermax unit on a PlasmaCam machine, or by hand.

Jim

IMG_2843.jpg

IMG_2845.jpg

[Bigrhamr]

Hi Jim,
umm, can I borrow your log splitter?

[jimcolt]

My splitter just occasionally disapears from my property.....my long time friends just come and take it.....although they are always good about taking care of it......but sometimes it just doesn't come back when they are done. Since I added the personalized log shelves.....its seems to come back home more regularly!

Jim

[BrianMick]

hey jim, got any pics of how you mount the tip at a 45 deg. I'm curious it could come in handy...I have
a Samson 5x10 with a machine torch...running a hypertherm 1650
Brian