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45XP vs old 45 with duramax torch

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SeanP
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45XP vs old 45 with duramax torch

Postby SeanP » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:43 am

For a while I couldn't make up my mind which way to go either get the new XP or keep the old 45 and get the new torch.

Well one way or another my mind has been made up all be it the expensive way!

The new XP arrived, all seemed fine until I started with 12mm plates, for one reason or another it would pierce and just as it broke through it would loose arc, but motion would continue piercing again as it moved - far from ideal! didn't do it every time maybe 10% of pierces.
That was all at book settings, good air, tried longer pierce delay, shorter, different pierce height but nothing worked.

To be fair my supplier has been very good, they sent a new torch and unit to try, with no difference.

Ah you say it's got to be my setup then, well maybe it is but what I don't know the old 45 never did this at all, it's being suggested to try different upgrades to the candcnc controls to cure it, but that's more cash away and not guaranteed to cure it.

So the couple of weeks I have run the old 45 with the new duramax torch, I have cut 4 sheets of 12mm, 3 sheets 10mm, 3 sheets 8mm, 2 sheets 6mm and a bunch of other stuff, cuts perfect, never missed a beat and to be honest I don't see any difference in power or cut quality, it's down to the torch I would say.

Even volts settings are near enough to book settings now where as before I always had to run at -10v to book with the old 45 machine torch.

Getting far better edge angularity consistency with the new torch, maybe not quite as shinier edge finish on say 6mm as the old torch, but still good. Finecuts work great.

I have a energy meter fitted on the plasma supply, yes the XP used a little less around .2 of a KW.

So unless you really need some of the other 'advantages' of the XP I would just go for the new torch.

So I don't see any point in battling with it any more, just wish I had gone the torch upgrade in the first place.
If anyone want's to buy a XP45 with hand torch let me know.

A couple of videos here of the problem I had.

12mm loss of arc
https://photos.app.goo.gl/U6Ela8enmiixqx2x2

20mm edge start, cutting at best quality setting,
https://photos.app.goo.gl/hDIesnUrt0QXRiE03

1.jpg


2.jpg


3.jpg


3a.jpg


4.jpg

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Powermax 45 with Duramax torch.
Home built table, Candcnc DTHC 2, Dragoncut 620-4
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beefy
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Re: 45XP vs old 45 with duramax torch

Postby beefy » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:20 pm

Sean,

is it possible for you to put an LED/resistor across the Torch On relay coil, as a simple confirmation that the Torch On relay is always energised when this happens.

I see another user has a similar problem with the 45XP:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24488

Interesting that it always flames out as it breaks through after piercing. Voltage will spike at that point (maybe more with the 45XP than the 45) so either some over-voltage sensing in the cnc controller is temporarily turning off the torch (??????????? maybe disable any such settings temporarily), or it's an internal issue with the 45XP itself.

The LED across the Torch On relay coil will help determine if the cnc controller is turning off the torch or the 45XP is turning itself off while it still has the Torch On signal.

You'll have to watch that LED like a hawk for it turning off momentarily.

Keith.
8 x 5 water table
Powermax 1250 with Duramax torch
UCCNC controller, UC400-ETH & UC300-ETH motion controllers.
Sheetcam
Geomagic Design 3D solid modelling
Coreldraw X5

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SeanP
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Re: 45XP vs old 45 with duramax torch

Postby SeanP » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:31 pm

Thanks Keith, yes I seen that post, it's not a easy one and fault finding isn't my strong point to be honest, now if there was a gain to be made I probably would try twice as hard, but seen as don't see one I might as well just cut my losses, just thought it might be of use to anyone thinking about the torch upgrade as I was.
Powermax 45 with Duramax torch.
Home built table, Candcnc DTHC 2, Dragoncut 620-4
R-Tech 210 Tig, Jasic 250 mig
Sheetcam, Scanything, Coreldraw X8, Solidworks
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urbnsr
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Re: 45XP vs old 45 with duramax torch

Postby urbnsr » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:36 pm

Keith has an excellent idea with the LED. That would help confirm what is (or isn't) going on. I may add this simply as an additional indicator.

With that said - Thanks for posting your experience as to help others thinking about the same upgrade. I'm not looking to replace my PM85 today (it does have a few head-scratchers that I haven't completely figured out), but one never knows and I still appreciate your information. I've been in those situations where I'm on the fence and a little info from someone else may help tip the scale in one direction or another.

Cheers to you, Sean. And Keith.

Paul

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Re: 45XP vs old 45 with duramax torch

Postby beefy » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:04 pm

Sean,

I need to be a bit more like you, and think more practically in a business sense.

Just 15 mins ago I took a sledgehammer to my old Ryobi weed trimmer, not as an act of uncontrollable fury, but to put a stop to the amount of time, effort and money I was spending on it.
I replaced the carburettor, the ignition magneto coil, replaced the dried and cracked fuel hoses, and 2 new spark plugs. Spent about a total of $100 on the damn thing and a new one only costs $180. But being the stupid nerd I am, I get caught up in things like this. Friggin heck I could make enough in 1 day to buy a new weed trimmer if I put my mind to it. The sledgehammer came out when I told myself I must cut my losses, and must not waste any more time and money on it and must focus on something a little more profitable. It's in the bin now and only have one choice - make some cash to buy a brand new one.

You are probably doing the right thing carrying on with your original cutter :lol:

Seeya,

Keith
8 x 5 water table
Powermax 1250 with Duramax torch
UCCNC controller, UC400-ETH & UC300-ETH motion controllers.
Sheetcam
Geomagic Design 3D solid modelling
Coreldraw X5

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Re: 45XP vs old 45 with duramax torch

Postby WyoGreen » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:17 am

Thanks for your update Sean. Just yesterday I was wondering what was going on with your XP problems. I had been thinking about some of the things the XP could do until I started seeing the problems you and others were having. I think I'll just stay with the 45 for now.

Steve
Precision Plasma gantry
CommandCNC Linux controller w/Feather Touch & PN200 hand controller
HT-45 plasma cutter
Plate Marker
CNC Router table

Brand X
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Re: 45XP vs old 45 with duramax torch

Postby Brand X » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:44 am

It's funny Sean,
I still hang onto my complete Thermal Dynamics SL-100 SV torch setup (voltage card) in case a cheap Cutmaster shows up.. It's all about what works best for you..That said I really think my 45XP is nicer then my Hypertherm 65 in many ways.. Great unit overall. Hand cutting .750 at 45 amps is really impressive, and it's my favorite Hypertherm I have used.. I am not having any issues like other people, so the reason for the favorable comments.Upgraded thc system over yours though.. I like the Marking, and argon gas setup I get with the 45 xp. 100 percent happy with mine..

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Re: 45XP vs old 45 with duramax torch

Postby jimcolt » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:29 am

The 45XP inverter operates at a higher frequency as compared to the original Powermax45. This makes the XP more efficient, higher duty cycle and wit faster maximum speed and thickness. Og course the XP also has marking capability and Finecut capability. The issues with starting are likely electrical noise interference that make be caused by the higher operating frequency affecting your cnc control electronics. What cnc and machine are you using? Jim Colt Hypertherm

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SeanP
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Re: 45XP vs old 45 with duramax torch

Postby SeanP » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:46 pm

jimcolt wrote: What cnc and machine are you using? Jim Colt Hypertherm


Its a Home built table, Candcnc DTHC 2, Dragoncut 620-4
Just fit the feathertouch ohmic with the help of djreiswig on here.

I'm a bit disappointed that I didn't really see any performance gain to be honest between the two, I thought I might have seen a gain piercing 12mm but no I still need a spray of duck oil on the sheet to stop this happening https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BidmGh8acpk&t=18s
That's a disgrace! :lol:

I still feel there is something different with it having the auto sensing of mesh compared to the manual switch on the 45, even hand cutting it reacts different, that's just a feeling I get I could be wrong there.

No I'll be happy enough with the old 45 now thanks, don't need to listen to the fan roaring away now as well.
Powermax 45 with Duramax torch.
Home built table, Candcnc DTHC 2, Dragoncut 620-4
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SeanP
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Re: 45XP vs old 45 with duramax torch

Postby SeanP » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:56 pm

Brand X wrote:It's funny Sean,
I still hang onto my complete Thermal Dynamics SL-100 SV torch setup (voltage card) in case a cheap Cutmaster shows up.. It's all about what works best for you..That said I really think my 45XP is nicer then my Hypertherm 65 in many ways.. Great unit overall. Hand cutting .750 at 45 amps is really impressive, and it's my favorite Hypertherm I have used.. I am not having any issues like other people, so the reason for the favorable comments.Upgraded thc system over yours though.. I like the Marking, and argon gas setup I get with the 45 xp. 100 percent happy with mine..


That's good, na marking really wasn't on my radar to be honest.
Just curious what advantages do you see with the newer thc system?
Powermax 45 with Duramax torch.
Home built table, Candcnc DTHC 2, Dragoncut 620-4
R-Tech 210 Tig, Jasic 250 mig
Sheetcam, Scanything, Coreldraw X8, Solidworks
Table build gallery

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SeanP
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Re: 45XP vs old 45 with duramax torch

Postby SeanP » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:58 pm

WyoGreen wrote:Thanks for your update Sean. Just yesterday I was wondering what was going on with your XP problems. I had been thinking about some of the things the XP could do until I started seeing the problems you and others were having. I think I'll just stay with the 45 for now.

Steve


Seriously consider the torch upgrade, pity we hadn't know about it years ago, those finecuts are great.
Powermax 45 with Duramax torch.
Home built table, Candcnc DTHC 2, Dragoncut 620-4
R-Tech 210 Tig, Jasic 250 mig
Sheetcam, Scanything, Coreldraw X8, Solidworks
Table build gallery

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SeanP
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Re: 45XP vs old 45 with duramax torch

Postby SeanP » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:02 pm

beefy wrote:Sean,

I need to be a bit more like you, and think more practically in a business sense.

Just 15 mins ago I took a sledgehammer to my old Ryobi weed trimmer, not as an act of uncontrollable fury, but to put a stop to the amount of time, effort and money I was spending on it.
I replaced the carburettor, the ignition magneto coil, replaced the dried and cracked fuel hoses, and 2 new spark plugs. Spent about a total of $100 on the damn thing and a new one only costs $180. But being the stupid nerd I am, I get caught up in things like this. Friggin heck I could make enough in 1 day to buy a new weed trimmer if I put my mind to it. The sledgehammer came out when I told myself I must cut my losses, and must not waste any more time and money on it and must focus on something a little more profitable. It's in the bin now and only have one choice - make some cash to buy a brand new one.

You are probably doing the right thing carrying on with your original cutter :lol:

Seeya,

Keith


No I've got to the stage of taking the sledge out to it yet :lol:
Had same problems with chainsaws as well, drive you mad don't they!
Powermax 45 with Duramax torch.
Home built table, Candcnc DTHC 2, Dragoncut 620-4
R-Tech 210 Tig, Jasic 250 mig
Sheetcam, Scanything, Coreldraw X8, Solidworks
Table build gallery

beefy
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Re: 45XP vs old 45 with duramax torch

Postby beefy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:51 am

Hey Sean,

just thought of a much simpler way to confirm whether the problem is coming from the CNC controller (PC, etc) or the plasma cutter itself.

Simply wire a normally open pushbutton in parallel with the torch on relay contact. You'll no doubt have 2 terminals where you connect the Torch On wires from the plasma cutter. Just put the push button wires there too.

As soon as the torch fires, press the button and keep it down until the pierce has finished and the cut starts. If the torch gets past the piercing point and starts cutting with the button pressed, but it won't do that without the button pressed, you know the Torch On relay is de-energising.

If the plasma cutter still turns off while the button is pressed, you know the problem is in the plasma cutter itself because you definitely had a Torch On signal to the plasma cutter when it turned off the arc.

Just a though if you decide to have another try at it.

Keith.
8 x 5 water table
Powermax 1250 with Duramax torch
UCCNC controller, UC400-ETH & UC300-ETH motion controllers.
Sheetcam
Geomagic Design 3D solid modelling
Coreldraw X5

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Re: 45XP vs old 45 with duramax torch

Postby jimcolt » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:52 am

I have run into a small handful of sites that have electrical noise interference from the Powermax45XP. Easy fix is to use a few ferrite beads on the start and arc voltage feedback lines on the interface cable.....problem solved. Jim Colt Hypertherm

Brand X
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Re: 45XP vs old 45 with duramax torch

Postby Brand X » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:00 am

SeanP wrote:That's good, na marking really wasn't on my radar to be honest.
Just curious what advantages do you see with the newer thc system?


Just runs outside of mach. less load on the computer, and easier tuning overall.. It turned into a good upgrade for my 12-13 year old computer.. (Dell XP)Just a more stable system now . I did the upgrade when my THC box had a issue. I could of went with the full Ethernet system for a few hundred more, but just took this step only. Proved fine like Luke said it would. (CandCNC) I am not big on change if it's working well.. Reason I can get great cuts with my Victor/Thermal/Esab machines.. Had them forever, and still think they are great units with lots experience with them..


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