Hypertherm Powermax 30XP for CNC ?

[Dingo745]

Hi,
I was going to use an Everlast 50S Plasma Cutter for my 5'x5' CNC table that I am building because of my budget constraints but I have been offered an ex demo Hypertherm Powemax 30XP for a price which is too good to let slip from what everyone on here has said about Hypertherm Plasma's in general.

But before I pull the trigger is there any reason this model won't be suitable for CNC use with an intended use of mainly light guage steel signs and artwork up to say 3mm.

Is there any special things that I will need to interface the 30XP to a Mach3 CNC, any good how -to's or sites in general
I also intend to use a low end THC such as a Proma or LCTHC or possibly a Neuron Simplicity or would that be overkill in my case ?
I have already made a floating torch mount.

So am I on the right track now ?

Thanks.

[jimcolt]

The 30XP was not designed specifically for machine cutting as the Powermax45 and larger Hypertherm units were. The difference is that there is not a machine torch available, there is not an electrical interface connector (for electrical connections to the cnc machine), and that the duty cycle is below Hypertherm's engineering standards (ok for hand cutting) ....so we do not promote it as a plasma for use with cnc machines.

That being said, there are many Powermax30XP's being used on cnc machines for applications similar to yours, and it does a great job when used for machine cutting on 3/16" thickness and thinner (occasional 1/4" cuts are ok as well). Above 1/4" I would not recommend piercing in a mechanized application.

-You will need some sort of hand torch holder that holds the torch by the handle...not by the retaining cap.
-You will have to be able to understand the wiring schematic in the service manual (downloadable at www.hypertherm.com) in order to slice into the torch trigger circuitry for interfacing to the plasma output from your cnc. You will also need to locate the positive (work lead) and negative (electrode) connections in the power supply for arc voltage feedback for the height control. These are relatively easy to figure out if you are familiar with electrical schematics.

Height control is necessary for plasma use on a cnc.......but only if you desire good cut quality and good consumable life!

Jim Colt Hypertherm

[Dingo745]

Thanks for the info Jim.
This is definitely only for home/hobby use and not a machine that will be doing long sessions cutting.
I only intend on doing the odd signs and artwork as a hobby being retired I have more time than I know what to with, hence my cnc hobby, I'm on my fourth cnc machine build now and this will be my first plasma cutter so I have a lot to learn.

Would you recommend buying a THC such as the Neuron Simplicity standalone over one of the cheaper THC's as it seems to me to have all the bells and whistles for a hobby machine build.

[muzza]

Another one Jim forgot to mention was that you cannot get shielded consumables so no ohmic sensing for height control unless you make something up yourself which some have done.

Previously you said you were looking to use Chinese over a Hypertherm because of costs, your comparison between the Neuron and Proma height controls is on a similar comparison scale, it's not comparing apples with apples on any level. Just have a look at the manuals for starters, I would say it's like your plasma comparison, top of the list with average and again you will only have to buy it once.
Murray

[beefy]

Got to 2nd what Murray said.

I'm not flush with cash and as a result I'm often forced to buy a cheaper option or get nothing at all. One painful realisation of buying the cheaper option is that I often end up paying more with time, either by replacing the item when it stuffs up or buying the better one later on because the cheaper option just didn't cut it.

My plasma table is an example. I used chains and sprockets with a single motor driving a common shaft. I get chain slap above fairly low cutting speeds. This has cost me heaps in jobs that I cannot do, plus I have to rebuild this part of the table when I can afford it. Lost time, lost opportunities and lost money.

If you can build right first time, & buy the quality and the size that you think will last you into the future, it will work out cheaper in the long run. Might even be worthwhile getting a loan if necessary but hopefully that would be compensated for ++ when you start making income.

Keith.

[Dingo745]

Good advice thanks all.
I got very lucky with the deal on the Hypertherm as it was listed on our Oz Gumtree which is sort of like a Craigs list thing in comparison.
The guy was selling all his stuff and relocating overseas and lucky for me I just happened to be up late and glanced on Guntree andd spotted the Hypertherm for $800 AUD which is probably equal to about $600 USD and it was too good a price and as rare as rocking horse shit normally on the secondhand market to pass up. The Powermax 30 XP retails here in Oz for around the $2500 AUD mark.
That is why I can now afford to spend a bit more on a better THC which I think the Neuron Simplicity appears to me to be as it seems to be able to most things and I haven't read too many bad things about them as compared to likes of Proma etc.
I still have a lot to learn about plasma cutters as I have only ever played around with CNC Routers and mills, so I know how to build a reasonable machine mechanically, but it's all the "electrickery" that baffles me somewhat and plasma seems to have that in droves.
As for getting a loan, well that is laughable as I only have a disability pension for income and no money tree in the backyard, so it's a case of scrimp and save every penny I can for my "toys"
So as usual it all boils down to money, but I will get there in time and help from you guys I hope.

[BensPlasmaAu]

Good advice thanks all.
I got very lucky with the deal on the Hypertherm as it was listed on our Oz Gumtree which is sort of like a Craigs list thing in comparison.
The guy was selling all his stuff and relocating overseas and lucky for me I just happened to be up late and glanced on Guntree andd spotted the Hypertherm for $800 AUD which is probably equal to about $600 USD and it was too good a price and as rare as rocking horse shit normally on the secondhand market to pass up. The Powermax 30 XP retails here in Oz for around the $2500 AUD mark.
That is why I can now afford to spend a bit more on a better THC which I think the Neuron Simplicity appears to me to be as it seems to be able to most things and I haven't read too many bad things about them as compared to likes of Proma etc.
I still have a lot to learn about plasma cutters as I have only ever played around with CNC Routers and mills, so I know how to build a reasonable machine mechanically, but it's all the "electrickery" that baffles me somewhat and plasma seems to have that in droves.
As for getting a loan, well that is laughable as I only have a disability pension for income and no money tree in the backyard, so it's a case of scrimp and save every penny I can for my "toys"
So as usual it all boils down to money, but I will get there in time and help from you guys I hope.

I feel you pain mate. Everything i did to build my table was done on a budget. I went the whole hog and bought a Powermax 45 and the CandCNC electronics all in one go after selling my motorbike. Which was a tough decision.

All the rest of the stuff was a compromise of cost, suitability, whatever junk parts were being thrown out at the mine i worked at and the age old "surely u can build that myself with a welder and a couple of grinders".

Keep it up though. Where are you in Australia? If you're in Melbourne you could come and have a look at mine for inspiration and assistance if needed. We all need a helping hand when starting. The guus on Plasmaspider are amazing. Read lots, ask the stupid question and learn all you can. Usually the question you think is stupid, someone else is thinking it and is too timid to post it up. This is by far my favourite website, apart from YouTube.

Cheers, Ben.

[Dingo745]

Good advice thanks all.
I got very lucky with the deal on the Hypertherm as it was listed on our Oz Gumtree which is sort of like a Craigs list thing in comparison.
The guy was selling all his stuff and relocating overseas and lucky for me I just happened to be up late and glanced on Guntree andd spotted the Hypertherm for $800 AUD which is probably equal to about $600 USD and it was too good a price and as rare as rocking horse shit normally on the secondhand market to pass up. The Powermax 30 XP retails here in Oz for around the $2500 AUD mark.
That is why I can now afford to spend a bit more on a better THC which I think the Neuron Simplicity appears to me to be as it seems to be able to most things and I haven't read too many bad things about them as compared to likes of Proma etc.
I still have a lot to learn about plasma cutters as I have only ever played around with CNC Routers and mills, so I know how to build a reasonable machine mechanically, but it's all the "electrickery" that baffles me somewhat and plasma seems to have that in droves.
As for getting a loan, well that is laughable as I only have a disability pension for income and no money tree in the backyard, so it's a case of scrimp and save every penny I can for my "toys"
So as usual it all boils down to money, but I will get there in time and help from you guys I hope.

I feel you pain mate. Everything i did to build my table was done on a budget. I went the whole hog and bought a Powermax 45 and the CandCNC electronics all in one go after selling my motorbike. Which was a tough decision.

All the rest of the stuff was a compromise of cost, suitability, whatever junk parts were being thrown out at the mine i worked at and the age old "surely u can build that myself with a welder and a couple of grinders".

Keep it up though. Where are you in Australia? If you're in Melbourne you could come and have a look at mine for inspiration and assistance if needed. We all need a helping hand when starting. The guus on Plasmaspider are amazing. Read lots, ask the stupid question and learn all you can. Usually the question you think is stupid, someone else is thinking it and is too timid to post it up. This is by far my favourite website, apart from YouTube.

Cheers, Ben.

G,Day Ben,
It's nice to hear from another Aussie mate but no I'm not in Melbourne, I live in coastal/rural South Australia about 80km. south of Adelaide on the coast at a place called Wirrina Cove.
I do use forums heavily for info and learning about new stuff like plasma cutters.
This is not my first, but fourth homemade CNC machine so I know the basics of a cnc router/mill for example but Plasma Cutters are a lot different in other ways.
Luckily I have lots of spare time, but not much money to be able to make most of my own stuff as I have an old lathe and decent mill, and tig welder so I can and have done most of my machines fabrication which saves a lot of money, but I can't do anything about all the expensive electronics to make these things work well.
As usual being in rural Oz we are always waiting on stuff to come from somewhere else, which is where I'm at now waiting on reduction gear pulleys and belts to arrive so I can continue my build which is using R&P drive on the X&Y axis and I have a leftover 25mm ballscrew & nut on my Z axis which is way overkill for a plasma.
My table is built like a brick sh t house for rigidity and will have a 5' x 5'cut area and probably a water table later on.
I plan to use an Ethernet Smooth Stepper with Mach3 and get the Hypertherm 30XP talking to them with a Neuron Simplicity THC all of which I hope is a good enough setup for hobby machine that will only be doing light gauge metal artwork and signs I hope to make a few dollars pocket money to supplement my pension.
I will definitely be asking lots of dumb questions especially when I get to the THC stage, and I still have to work out how SheetCam works with Mach3 !

Thanks,
Deane.

[jimcolt]

Honestly I do not know enough about the THC's that you mention to recommend either one. The THC systems that work best are ones that are integrated into the cnc drive system.....with the z axis using arc voltage feedback instead of step positioning or encoder feedback. By having the THC integrated as another axis you have full control of the THC during corner and intricate detail slowdowns...and issue that causes standalone THC systems to dive into the material, often affecting the part or damaging the torch. Basically you need to freeze torch height whenever the cut speeds drops by 10% or more.....or the arc voltage rises, causing the THC to react with downward correction.

It is also important, especially on materials thinner than about 3/16" (4 mm) for the height control system to use ohmic contact.....with very sensitive sensing of the work surface so that the material does not deflect. Incorrect (too close) pierce height is the number 1 cause of short consumable life and the ensuing poor cut quality.

I do understand the importance of budgets though...and generally speaking, any height control is better than none!

By the way...the standard consumables for the Powermax30XP are shielded, the Finecut set are not shielded. For ohmic contact the shield needs to have an electrical connection back through the THC electronics....and the shield is the locating point for the surface of the material before each cut. On unshielded consumables you would need to fabricate some sort of metallic sensor that is positioned slightly below the nozzle to sense the surface. And....for the price....you stole that Powermax30XP! Best regards, Jim Colt Hypertherm

Thanks for the info Jim.
This is definitely only for home/hobby use and not a machine that will be doing long sessions cutting.
I only intend on doing the odd signs and artwork as a hobby being retired I have more time than I know what to with, hence my cnc hobby, I'm on my fourth cnc machine build now and this will be my first plasma cutter so I have a lot to learn.

Would you recommend buying a THC such as the Neuron Simplicity standalone over one of the cheaper THC's as it seems to me to have all the bells and whistles for a hobby machine build.

[acourtjester]

Hi Deane
I would do more research on the Ethernet Smooth Stepper when working with Plasma. I think they work fine for other setup but not for plasma.

[Dingo745]

I was told that they are preferable for a plasma machine over the USB Smooth Stepper version as the ethernet version has much better shielding against RFI and they are quicker as well.
I want to use one also so that I can use a modern laptop and not some ancient desktop system that has a parallel port as they are also getting harder to find in good running order and I have two spare laptops for the job.
But I'm open to your recommendation if they are not suitable, maybe I will ask the experts on the forum and see what the consensus is on the subject.

Thanks,
Deane

[acourtjester]

That is what I would suggest, "maybe I will ask the experts on the forum and see what the consensus is on the subject."
I know that CandCNC uses Ether connected electronics and I am not talking about theirs, as it works well. I am talking about the simple replacement for a BOB board using an ether or USB connection
I have tried both types and keep going back to the simple BOB boards or one from CancCNC on the tables I have built.

[Dingo745]

I did a bit of digging and on the Warp9 website (Smoothstepper) they quote it as being suitable for THC use on a plasma cutter.
"The Ethernet version is less susceptable to electrical noise than the USB version, so it is better for things like controlling the THC (Torch Height Control) on a Plasma cutter."
I will still have a normal BOB to connect the motors and drivers etc, and the Ethernet Smooth Stepper is really just a replacement for the parallel port.
I still want it confirmed by someone that can say 100 % that it will work ok.
Always better safe than sorry so they say.