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Mach3 trouble shooting help please

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RyanY
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Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby RyanY » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:51 am

Hi I recently built a CNC plasma table and I have everything hooked up to the table and I have my Motors running up and down my table. when I go to the settings page to do the motor calibration I calibrated the Y axis just fine but I am having trouble calibrating the X&Z axis. On my z axis I have my steps per at 1000 I have my velocity at 115 and I have my acceleration at 90, driver pulse is 3200,and it goes up-and-down on the table just fine. now when I put my mark on my rail for measuring and tell Mach to move 2 inches it will move fine. then it wants me to measure the actual distance and I put the actual distance in which is maybe 1.5 inches. then it gives me the command saying it is going to set the inches per to 4000 to adjust for the correct distance. I clicked OK, accept the terms and then I bring my table back to my mark with the keyboard to recalibrate it to see if it's on. I tell Mach that I want it to move 2 inches again and it acts like it's jammed up and it doesn't move. the X aXis does the same thing. I have it set up in inches not mm on Mach. I've had another member on here help trouble shoot and he can't help me anymore because he can't figure it out so he said to post my question here.
Does this sound like a software glitch?
Thanks.

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WyoGreen
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby WyoGreen » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:11 pm

It sounds like Mach3 is doing the math wrong. Why don't you just try changing the distance a little bit each time to sneak up on it. Going from 1000 to 4000 is a huge jump. If you were going 1.5" in 1000 steps, then logically you'd be going 6 inches in 4000 steps.

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RyanY
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby RyanY » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:09 pm

How would I do that and calibrate it?? Are you saying just put my inches per at something 2500 and try calibrating it or what?? Why would it be doing the math wrong on 2 axis bunt not on the third

Paint Chip
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby Paint Chip » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:12 pm

When I calibrated my motors I started with an initial guess, ran off 3 inches in the x axis and then measured the actual travel (I set up a mark on the rail to measure from. Then I divided the desired travel by the actual travel and multiplied this factor by the initial guess - this will be your second guess. If you traveled less than the desired amount your factor will be >1 and will increase the value for steps per for your next trial. If you traveled more than your desired number your factor will be <1 and reduce the steps per for your second trial. It should only take a couple tries to get it real close. Then increase your desired distance to near the max travel of your table and go through the factor determination and adjustment again. This will increase your accuracy and precision. Then do the Y axis and then the z axis.

RyanY
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby RyanY » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:32 pm

Do you understand what is happening when I'm calibrating it?? Maybe I don't get it idk. If Mach automatically picks how many steps per I don't get what you are saying?? Am I suppose to calibrate like normal but after I put in the actually distance just abort the calibration and divide like you are talking about. So if I have my steps per set at 2000 and I tell it to move 2" but it moves 1.5" I take 1.5/2=.75x2=1.5?? I don't get it???

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acourtjester
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby acourtjester » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:08 pm

Ryan is using Machs axis calibration method shown here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTRatwpSgpA
What happens is after the first X axis movement for a distance and the correction number is entered all goes well. But when He tries to move the X to go back and start the procedure again the motor speed has drastically change and the motor stalls. When I have done this the speed does not change. You can change the "steps Per" value and repeat the travel check over and over without the speed changing. This is only to calibrate the distance traveled. Later you can work with the velocity and acceleration values, to tune in the table operations.
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Paint Chip
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby Paint Chip » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:40 am

Ah, I see. I don't have that in my version - I have a custom set of screens from CandCNC. But the math Mach is doing sounds like just what I described. He should be able to go into the Config menu, choose motor tuning and enter an initial value in the Steps per window and then hit the Save Axis Settings button. Then follow the steps I gave. Or, using the the method he's using, he should be able to do the math as I described and check the number that Mach is coming back with for steps per. If the number is wrong he could select "No" when it asks if the new steps per is ok - seems like Mach would then ask for a number to be input instead. If so, then he should enter the number he calculated. I'm not sure why the motor is stalling just from a sets per change though. That should just dictate how many turns the motor makes to achieve the distance desired. The acceleration seems kind of high though - I think mine is only set around 20 or 30; but maybe its what his setup requires, idk. I also am not sure what the driver pulse is, I only have inputs for step pulse, which can be set from 1-5 microseconds and for pulse direction, which can be set from 0-5 (units unspecified). Hope this helps.

RyanY
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby RyanY » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:22 am

Thank you. I was thinking about this and thought if I changed the numb in config and saved it then ran the calibration and just didn't put the distance in and went back into config and just increased the steps per a little each time that would work to untill it was right. I don't understand your math so I will try it my way. Thanks.

Paint Chip
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby Paint Chip » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:15 am

Adjustment Factor = Desired length/Actual Length

Adjusted Steps per = Previous Steps per X Adjustment Factor

ex - 1000 steps per initial guess for 3 in travel (desired length) results in 2.5 in travel (actual length)

Adjustment factor = 3 in/2.5 in = 1.2

Adjusted Steps per (your new trial amount) = 1000 X 1.2 = 1200 steps per (put this number into the steps per box and re-run you test measurment. You should nail the number in 2-3 tries.

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acourtjester
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby acourtjester » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:17 am

First Paint chip if you check this post you will find out how to use that function. Why fiddle with the math when Mach does it for you.
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=20950&p=123635&hilit=axis+calibration#p123635
Now as to the values he is using they are the same I have on my system, along with the gear ratios for the X axis. He is building his table from plans I supplied and the parts shown in the plans. I have built 4 tables using the same info and know there are others out there too.
The driver pulse is the switch setting on the drive for the number of pulse the drive uses to turn the motor shaft 1 revolution. The step per is how many of those pulses it takes to move the axis to a distance. By no means am I an expert, There is something not working correctly and we were looking for help to find and correct it.
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Paint Chip
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby Paint Chip » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:07 am

Ok. Hope you figure it out. The only case I would make for doing the math yourself is the numbers he gave don't add up. If he had 1000 steps/in to start, set for 2 in of travel and only got 1.5 inches the factor would be 2/1.5=1.333, which would then give a new set/in value of 1333, not the 4000 he was getting from the Mach calculator.

tcaudle
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby tcaudle » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:16 pm

One thing that jumps out at me is the acceleration or 90. That is really aggressive for most stepper axis . Jogging does not use that velocity or acceleration soit can jog fine but G-Code can caus it to stall and not move the right distance. For some math that makes the acceleration as 5400 IPM/sec Maybe the mechanics can do that but there is a reason for the actions you are seeing and it is not the mechanicals and it jogs okay then it has to be in the motion parameters

RyanY
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby RyanY » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:00 pm

I made a video today but couldn't post it so I emailed it to acourtjester this morning but haven't heard from him today. Maybe he knows how to post videos on here???

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acourtjester
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby acourtjester » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:05 pm

I tried to attach the video, it is 21 megs I edited it to 2X speed now 11.4 megs and zipped both and they are still to large to attach here. :(
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RyanY
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby RyanY » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:10 pm

I tried to upload it on YouTube but no luck there

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acourtjester
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby acourtjester » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:34 pm

here is Ryan's video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAJlsVFpv1c
I saw something I did not think is normal when he does the first calibration step and enters in the correct distance it give a value of 4000.
I have never seen a even number like that it is always like 2947.304 not an even 1000 number, don't know if that means anything but I don't think its normal. :o
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Paint Chip
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby Paint Chip » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:13 am

Using the numbers I thought I heard him say in the video:

1500 (initial guess) X 2 in (desired travel) / 0.75 actual travel =4000 steps/in

So it looks like the math it's doing is correct. The number, in this case, just happens to come out even because the numbers going in are all evenly divisible by 2.

RyanY
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby RyanY » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:27 am

My steps per were set to 1500 before I started.

RyanY
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby RyanY » Fri May 05, 2017 9:53 am

I got the new Mach3 uploaded the other night but now I must be missing some settings because I can't get the motors to move at all. They lock up but when I use the keyboard it shows they are moving but nothing happens. I have these filled out correctly but must be missing something??
IMG_2189.PNG

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tcaudle
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby tcaudle » Fri May 05, 2017 4:40 pm

The step & dir pins for a given controller are totally up to the connections of THAT controller. Since the type and model were never listed its not possible to say if the screen shot is right. If they are not correct then MACH will send the pulses out to the assigned pins and change the DROs since it does not know there is no movement. The pin numbers in the screen shot are not consistent with most controllers out there.

RyanY
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby RyanY » Fri May 05, 2017 4:47 pm

Yea I think I know what I did wrong. I will see later.

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acourtjester
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Re: Mach3 trouble shooting help please

Postby acourtjester » Fri May 05, 2017 6:21 pm

Screen shot of that BOB pin layout.
bob.jpg

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