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Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby jimcolt » Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:10 pm

A bad o-ring does not knock anything out of alignment.....what it does is that it changes the critical shield gas pressure / flow. Having a damaged shield orifice, plugged shield vent holes or a damaged retaining cap will do the same thing. By changing the shield flow....it can also affect the cut flow ......which often shows up as either an off center electrode burn, and / or notching on the inside of the nozzle orifice (low flow).

Remember what a bad o-ring did to the space shuttle Challenger launch?
Jim

"Jim,
if you're reading this, would it not be a good suggestion to the design team to review the torch consumable area design so that a less than perfect O-ring won't knock the cap out of alignment. Seems a poor design when precise alignment depends on a flexible rubber part having perfect consistency in softness and dimensions. Hydraulic rams often have hard fibre rings next to the sealing O-rings, and these fibre rings take the side loads, etc and keep the metal parts accurately located. Don't know if something like that could be added into the design of the torches."

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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby see&see » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:38 pm

motoguy wrote:The magnetic clamp IS always on the X+ side of the work...surely this thing couldn't be "pulling" the arc...right? That's where I'm currently at...wondering if my damn magnetic clamp is causing the bevel!


Glad you found the problem. Too many Elvis impersonators out there to take that chance, especially with high powered magnets laying around which might accidentally end up in your pants pocket. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I use a couple of high power Mag-Switch clamps on the 5/8" plate BuildPro welding table. These new clamps are getting so strong they are dangerous if you're not careful. I've had magnetic force affect the welding process 3' away across the table while holding the work piece.

Only used a small Mag-Switch clamp once on the plasma table and learned a hard lesson. Bad bevel and incomplete cuts. IMHO, there is no way anyone should use a magnet near the plasma cutting process... Not to mention the damage it could do to the critical electronics, height control etc...
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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby Nacs Fab » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:45 pm

I am in the exact same boat with thicker material and my O-Ring is the only thing I did not replace. Motoguy, did you buy this as a hypertherm Part number or did you measure the original and source one locally? I would assume buying genuine Hypertherm is the way to go so I'll look into it. I have a Duramax Torch on my 1250.
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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby motoguy » Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:06 pm

Nacs Fab wrote:I am in the exact same boat with thicker material and my O-Ring is the only thing I did not replace. Motoguy, did you buy this as a hypertherm Part number or did you measure the original and source one locally? I would assume buying genuine Hypertherm is the way to go so I'll look into it. I have a Duramax Torch on my 1250.


Hypertherm part. I don't remember if I ordered them separately, or if they came with a consumable kit.

Also, I don't recall what the o-ring is supposed to be lubed with, per the owners manual. I've been spraying some WD-40 on my finger, and lightly wiping it down (which will coat the exterior surfaces only).
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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby Brand X » Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:38 pm

Probably why it messed up in the first place. I have yet to replace a O-ring on any machine I own. I have the o-rings too..(For years, and years) :) Silicone Dielectric Grease is what you want to use. It's what Victor/Esab, and Hypertherm send out with some of their Consumable kits..

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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby acourtjester » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:02 pm

I ordered my separately that is why I posted the part neumbers.
Some "O" rings are effected by chemicals I had one (not on the torch) shrink up by using vaseline on it.
Originally I used it to assemble a container to get a good seal, vaseline helped it get tighter. But when I took it apart the next time the "O" ring would not fit in the grove in the container and I had to replace it.
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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby Brand X » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:57 pm

https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Ford-Sil ... B000NU7OZG

This is totally fine too. Heck of a lot more for the $$$

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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby motoguy » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:26 pm

Final results of the job that led to this thread. I notice the 4th photo looks like the edges are excessively beveled, but they're not. All edges are around 2 degrees of bevel. I've never been able to cut thick plate this well. Then again, I cut a lot of thin plate before I cut anything thick, so perhaps that o-ring has been blemished for a long while.

20161230_152929_1483463943683_resized.jpg

20161230_152935_1483463945092_resized.jpg

20161230_165759_1483463948205_resized.jpg

20161230_165813_1483463950246_resized.jpg


Oh, I now understand why some of you guys have made deflectors for use on thick material. Good grief.

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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby Nacs Fab » Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:30 pm

Nice Job! here is a set I did for a customer a while back. Sorry to highjack but if you are planning on welding those in, PM me for a cool trick I used that made them run true.

1509277_10152234432579536_1906817333_n.jpg
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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby SONIC » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:21 pm

I've been having odd bevel issues as well.
After reading this thread I went and checked and I was getting a LOT of leakage out the top of the torch past the oring!
Replaced it with another that I had and while the leakage and bevel are improved, I'm still getting a lot of leakage out of the top.
Can someone put their hand near their torch while it's cutting and let me know if this is normal or if I need to keep investigating? seems like it shouldn't be leaking at all.
New oring is brand new with a good lube with hypertherm dielectric grease.

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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby motoguy » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:08 pm

SONIC wrote:I've been having odd bevel issues as well.
After reading this thread I went and checked and I was getting a LOT of leakage out the top of the torch past the oring!
Replaced it with another that I had and while the leakage and bevel are improved, I'm still getting a lot of leakage out of the top.
Can someone put their hand near their torch while it's cutting and let me know if this is normal or if I need to keep investigating? seems like it shouldn't be leaking at all.
New oring is brand new with a good lube with hypertherm dielectric grease.


I'll check next time I fire it up. I cut more 1/2" parts yesterday (adapter plates for a backhoe bucket), and they turned out great. Bevel on straight sections at book was minimal. I had some bevel at corner and curves, but I believe that was a result of my cut rules. The parts cut since changing the o-ring are the first non-beveled (thick) parts I can remember cutting. I feel like my table has a whole new capability.

Since replacing the ring, I have been using the Hypertherm dielectric grease (because I have it...generic stuff when it's gone) to keep the o-ring coated. Also, I have started wiping down the inside of the retaining cap, which I have never done before. Other than blowing out with a blow gun (to keep holes from being blocked), I totally neglected the interior of this cap. I now wipe the interior of the top (black ceramic) section, as well as the brass area where the o-ring seats (visible at top of cap, in photo below). There was a ton of dust/crap in there when I first wiped it down. Makes sense that some of that dust could keep a seal from forming, and/or damage the o-ring.

Image

I'm very interested to hear if this o-ring issue solves the mysterious bevel issues others were having. It seems to have worked great for me.
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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby Old Iron » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:48 pm

Oh my, you guys are an absolute Godsend.
I've been at my wits end with this exact issue. I can't wait for the welding supply to open Monday so I can get a new o-ring.
Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby motoguy » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:05 am

Old Iron wrote:Oh my, you guys are an absolute Godsend.
I've been at my wits end with this exact issue. I can't wait for the welding supply to open Monday so I can get a new o-ring.
Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Let us know if it works. It seems many folks have this same issue. I'm curious to see if a simple o-ring switch/lube/cleaning of the interior of the retaining cap solves this for some people. It seems we've all been so focused on the consumable part, that we've overlooked that little o-ring.
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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby Old Iron » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:05 am

motoguy wrote:
Old Iron wrote:Oh my, you guys are an absolute Godsend.
I've been at my wits end with this exact issue. I can't wait for the welding supply to open Monday so I can get a new o-ring.
Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Let us know if it works. It seems many folks have this same issue. I'm curious to see if a simple o-ring switch/lube/cleaning of the interior of the retaining cap solves this for some people. It seems we've all been so focused on the consumable part, that we've overlooked that little o-ring.

I will definitely post the results, thanks again!!!!!!!

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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby jimcolt » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:29 am

There is a small amount of air that is supposed to exit above the retaining cap on some Hypertherm air torches....it is for torch body and retaining cap cooling. This air flow (it is not what I would define as a leak!) is necessary!

Jim Colt Hypertherm

SONIC wrote:I've been having odd bevel issues as well.
After reading this thread I went and checked and I was getting a LOT of leakage out the top of the torch past the oring!
Replaced it with another that I had and while the leakage and bevel are improved, I'm still getting a lot of leakage out of the top.
Can someone put their hand near their torch while it's cutting and let me know if this is normal or if I need to keep investigating? seems like it shouldn't be leaking at all.
New oring is brand new with a good lube with hypertherm dielectric grease.

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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby SONIC » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:17 am

Gotcha,
Thanks Jim!
This feels more normal now after replacing the oring, before it was clearly a leak, now it fees more controlled.

Also there are 2 spaces for Orings on the duramax machine torch, but the diagrams only show the oring in the bottom one, any word on why or if 2 orings in an improvement?

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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby TimP » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:25 am

Put me in this same school, except my son is bigger and meaner than me.
I've tried everything to get rid of bevel on 3/8 and 1/2 plate. Everything
except the o-ring.
I ordered one, but couldn't wait to see if it helped, so I cheated and bought
some that were extremely close in size at Lowe's, in the plumbing department.

This is on a PM1000. After cleaning all of the dust out of the cap and putting the new
o-ring in, bevel issue is solved. Now I just need to wait for the actual Hypertherm
ring.

Thanks for sharing the goldmine of information!

Tim

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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby Old Iron » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:05 pm

:D The o-ring worked perfectly 8-)
I cut some 1/4" parts and all were clean with square edges ;)

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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby SeanP » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:23 pm

I keep expecting to see motoguy to come back and say na it's still there, but no more and more saying it worked :)
Must get a couple myself I reckon now, good stuff!
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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby motoguy » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:27 pm

SeanP wrote:I keep expecting to see motoguy to come back and say na it's still there, but no more and more saying it worked :)
Must get a couple myself I reckon now, good stuff!


When I cut the backhoe bucket plates (2nd group of 1/2" parts cut since replacing the o-ring), I noticed a bit of bevel on the parts. "Oh no!"

Upon inspecting the nozzle, I saw it had developed a slight divot/blowout on one edge of the tip. Replaced with a new 45A nozzle, and the parts cut perfectly. :D

It sounds dumb, given how simple it is and how much grief it seems to have caused, but I really think clean/lubed o-ring (and a retaining cap with a cleaned interior surface) was the cause of my issue! I'm kind of like you..."surely it can't be this simple...right?" That's why I've been waiting to see if others have similar results. Now, it's starting to look like they are...

Hey, does this qualify for an Elite Member status? :P :lol:
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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby Old Iron » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:06 pm

I vote motoguy to receive Elite status 8-)

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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby Old Iron » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:20 pm

You most likely already know this but, just in case
Goto User Control Panel
Click on User Groups
Click the radio button to the right of Elite Contributing Members
Drop window to Join Selected
Then click submit.

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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby WyoGreen » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:29 pm

This has been a very interesting thread. I had completely forgotten about that O ring, and had done nothing to it for years. I have noticed a bit of a bevel on the last few parts I cut, but they were nothing critical, so I haven't taken the time to chase down the cause. So now I suppose I should do some replacing, cleaning, and lubing. :?

This thread is the reason I love this forum, always learning something new. (or being reminded of something I should be doing!)

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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby Old Iron » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:51 pm

I just done a happy dance in the freezing rain :lol:
I have never been able to run Hypertherm spec on my cnc until changing the $.50 o-ring :P
Last edited by Old Iron on Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bevel issue made me punch my kids in the face!

Postby Old Iron » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:05 pm

I'm gonna use the 20 amp settings next time


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