Plasmacam to Torchmate, thinking of making the move

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Plasmacam to Torchmate, thinking of making the move

Post by Fishstink »

I'm an owner of a plasmacam DHC for the last 15 years.
I've been having issues that have kept my machine offline for 3 weeks plus now. It is the main machine in my shop and business has been at a standstill.
PCam has been deceptive and not helpful at all in solving my dilemma. I have shipped the control box to them twice and it has come back with the same issue and it does not seem that they have done anything to it despite their claims that they have replaced the PCB twice.

Now considering buying a Torchmate from Lincoln Electric as it seems that it is an integrated system and may be better all around.

Does anyone have any experience with any of this to share?
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Re: Plasmacam to Torchmate, thinking of making the move

Post by see&see »

Speaking for myself, I had a contract in hand to purchase a Torchmate Growth Series a few years ago. I decided NOT to go with the Torchmate and shortly after that Lincoln discontinued the Growth series. I almost threw 17K out in the street.. Not signing that contract was the best move I made in a long time.. Just saying..

I can't get Microsoft to support Windows 7 anymore either.. Outdated products are just that, outdated products...
You marry into the PlasmaCam family and must accept the fact your software and hardware are proprietary. It's a for better or for worse engagement with overwhelming security. PlasmaCam controls the computer, table, hardware to their advantage IMO. :x
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Re: Plasmacam to Torchmate, thinking of making the move

Post by jimcolt »

If you want to get away from PlasmaCam .....there are a dozen better choices than the Torchmate machines. PlasmaCam has some very nice software (if you have upgraded to Design Edge with advanced height and advanced control) that is hard to beat. Let us know what the issues are, what model Plasmacam and what kind of parts, materials and thickness you cut....and we can help steer you in the right direction. Jim Colt
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Re: Plasmacam to Torchmate, thinking of making the move

Post by Gamelord »

I have a 7x14 Torchmate table and love it.....that being said, if I do upgrade or find the need to get another table, it will probably be another brand. First thing I will look at is the speed in which it can run, how fast it accelerates, speed control in the corners etc...

Drive system, how the motors connect to the frame and gantry. Weight of the gantry (light for fast turning and changing direction without disrupting the rest of the table).

With the same importance, I will take a real close look at the THC. It has to be fast enough to cut at speed and easy to set/control. My Torchmate THC works...but it takes a lot of patience to finally get it dialed in and when it gets out of wack it takes a lot of work, time and wasted material to get it back in shape.

Also look at how the software/hardware interfaces with the Plasma (Which will be a Hypertherm on my next table.

Durability and strength of the table is important to me. I want to drop a 5x10 plate of 1/2" on the table without worrying it may bend something. My current table is built ultra strong and it's nice knowing that it will never get damaged with a mishap when loading. Drop rail on the side is a must if you don't have an overhead crane or forklift to lift your pieces on and off.

Oh...and the company has to be a sound solid company that I know will be around for years when the parts start to wear out and need replacing. I don't want a table that I fear will be obsolete in a few years because the company decides to build something different. I really don't have any regrets with my Torchmate, but I do find myself in constant worry that if a piece goes down I am screwed and will have to resort to the aftermarket world to try and get my operation back up and running. Right now I don't have a clue if Torchmate even supports my table any more...or has any parts available. This is the same reason I would be very cautious about purchasing something from China or any new start up company that doesn't have some kind of a track record. For minimal amount more you can purchase from a known, well established company that knows what they are doing and has the financial ability to carry replacement parts and support for WHEN something goes down.

Just my two cents worth.
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Re: Plasmacam to Torchmate, thinking of making the move

Post by beefy »

Gamelord wrote: Oh...and the company has to be a sound solid company that I know will be around for years when the parts start to wear out and need replacing. I don't want a table that I fear will be obsolete in a few years because the company decides to build something different. I really don't have any regrets with my Torchmate, but I do find myself in constant worry that if a piece goes down I am screwed and will have to resort to the aftermarket world to try and get my operation back up and running. Right now I don't have a clue if Torchmate even supports my table any more...or has any parts available. This is the same reason I would be very cautious about purchasing something from China or any new start up company that doesn't have some kind of a track record. For minimal amount more you can purchase from a known, well established company that knows what they are doing and has the financial ability to carry replacement parts and support for WHEN something goes down.
I would add to that the software too.

As we have seen in a recent Plasmacam thread, a user with an older working table, had lost his original install DVD. He informed us that Plasmacam would not even send him a replacement DVD, and to get his table going again, he would have to spend $1000 to buy the upgraded version.

They said they did not "support" old software.

I'd get it in writing at table purchase time that the software it comes with will always be available in case the customer loses theirs. For the company it's nothing but a few files in storage.
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Re: Plasmacam to Torchmate, thinking of making the move

Post by rdj357 »

beefy wrote:
Gamelord wrote: Oh...and the company has to be a sound solid company that I know will be around for years when the parts start to wear out and need replacing. I don't want a table that I fear will be obsolete in a few years because the company decides to build something different. I really don't have any regrets with my Torchmate, but I do find myself in constant worry that if a piece goes down I am screwed and will have to resort to the aftermarket world to try and get my operation back up and running. Right now I don't have a clue if Torchmate even supports my table any more...or has any parts available. This is the same reason I would be very cautious about purchasing something from China or any new start up company that doesn't have some kind of a track record. For minimal amount more you can purchase from a known, well established company that knows what they are doing and has the financial ability to carry replacement parts and support for WHEN something goes down.
I would add to that the software too.

As we have seen in a recent Plasmacam thread, a user with an older working table, had lost his original install DVD. He informed us that Plasmacam would not even send him a replacement DVD, and to get his table going again, he would have to spend $1000 to buy the upgraded version.

They said they did not "support" old software.

I'd get it in writing at table purchase time that the software it comes with will always be available in case the customer loses theirs. For the company it's nothing but a few files in storage.
It was also decades old software and I don't find it unreasonable that the company will not provide a copy of outdated software. You'll be hard pressed to get anything in writing that says you'll get anything you want, anytime you want, forever. Those companies aren't usually around for very long so forever isn't a long time....

My guess is, that user was able to politely contact another table owner that has or could provide him with a working copy. Unless of course the politely part was not considered necessary.
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Re: Plasmacam to Torchmate, thinking of making the move

Post by beefy »

rdj357 wrote: It was also decades old software and I don't find it unreasonable that the company will not provide a copy of outdated software.
Well, it's up to potential / existing customers to decide what they think of that.

The software is outdated for new table sales, but it's not outdated for the currently fully functioning Plasmacam table that the owner has. However, old it is, it's not worn out, and works good (if he has the software :roll: ).

We are not talking the manufacturing upkeep of spare parts here, or phone support for the said old software, or troubleshooting, etc.

We are talking nothing more than an ISO file kept by Plasmacam (I bet you they have the ISO file sitting there right now), on a PC hard drive or wherever, which can be effortlessly burned onto a DVD and posted to the customer. I don't call that support. AND they can make some profit for the small effort.

As far as I'm concerned, this would not be a problem at all for any decent seller. My view is that Plasmacam is using the "support for outdated" line, as an excuse to try and get $1000 out of a customer, when it's not at all necessary. I can bet you they will lose more money from bad word of mouth and loss of future sales by this tactic.

As I've already said, what I think means zippo and potential buyers will decide.
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Re: Plasmacam to Torchmate, thinking of making the move

Post by see&see »

beefy wrote: As far as I'm concerned, this would not be a problem at all for any decent seller. My view is that Plasmacam is using the "support for outdated" line, as an excuse to try and get $1000 out of a customer, when it's not at all necessary. I can bet you they will lose more money from bad word of mouth and loss of future sales by this tactic.
Wow, if ANY part of that was true MOST companies would have been out of business long ago.. You could have said the same thing about Microsoft, Apple, Ford, Chevrolet, Chrysler and thousands of other companies that no longer support their 15 year old products.

At least give some of us here a little credit for being intelligent enough to know how a solvent business needs to operate..

Any "decent" member here should realize that in a minute.. But sadly, maybe it's just totally beyond comprehension for some... :roll:
You marry into the PlasmaCam family and must accept the fact your software and hardware are proprietary. It's a for better or for worse engagement with overwhelming security. PlasmaCam controls the computer, table, hardware to their advantage IMO. :x
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Re: Plasmacam to Torchmate, thinking of making the move

Post by see&see »

rdj357 wrote: My guess is, that user was able to politely contact another table owner that has or could provide him with a working copy. Unless of course the politely part was not considered necessary.
Exactly, and that's why we've had several instances on the PlasmaCam forum of free availability of older software by members..
You marry into the PlasmaCam family and must accept the fact your software and hardware are proprietary. It's a for better or for worse engagement with overwhelming security. PlasmaCam controls the computer, table, hardware to their advantage IMO. :x
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Re: Plasmacam to Torchmate, thinking of making the move

Post by beefy »

see&see wrote: At least give some of us here a little credit for being intelligent enough to know how a solvent business needs to operate..

Any "decent" member here should realize that in a minute.. But sadly, maybe it's just totally beyond comprehension for some... :roll:
So, if I express my opinion on something and you don't like it, you see fit to say I'm not a decent member, and in certain words, you are calling me stupid.

Have I missed something, or is this a DISCUSSION forum. In your case it seems to be a forum where someone cannot say what you don't like.

You've threw 2 insults at me in such a few words.

Seeing as you started the insults, do you realise how hypocritical, indecent, and stupid you have just made yourself look.

You call me an indecent member, yet the indecent member is you for starting to throw insults. There was no need for that.

And seeing as you've just implied I'm stupid, I'll fire it right back at you. You've just proven you are the stupid one by saying I'm not a decent member when you are the one who started throwing insults.
Clearly the indecent member is you.

Another indication of your stupidity is that you connect having a good knowledge of how a solvent business operates, with being a "decent" member. I'm still a little dazed by your thinking on that one.

Perhaps the moderator should state this in the forum rules and guidelines, that when you become a member of this >> plasma cutting << forum, you'd better not show any indecency to other members, by not having an good working knowledge of business solvency.

So look darling, I suggest you wait until the time of the month has passed, so you can think a little more clearly, and not make yourself look like a stupid hypocrite.

Glad to see we're such good buddies.
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Re: Plasmacam to Torchmate, thinking of making the move

Post by rdj357 »

Everyone is entitled to have and express their opinions. Like every other area of debate on a forum, that right does not free you from others holding your statements accountable to fact. You can oversimplify it by calling it a greedy company with an ISO file sitting there that they won't share but many will completely understand that it is a business decision to change versions and require upgrade. That practice is common across almost every other software company.

I do expect consumers to make their decision with all the information provided. I'm not selling anything, I'm only saying that those looking from the outside in or those with unrealistic expectations of software licensing polices should not and will not be the only voice in the discussion no matter how loudly or repeatedly they state their opinion. That said, this forum is made up of a very eclectic group of people representing owners of every style and flavor machine. A disagreement about one thing doesn't mean they aren't a valued member of the group.
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Re: Plasmacam to Torchmate, thinking of making the move

Post by steel 35 »

Hope you have read between the lines and found your answer.
You said you want a change, The other question has been answered several times; I would concur! Still waiting on a quote :lol:
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Re: Plasmacam to Torchmate, thinking of making the move

Post by see&see »

beefy wrote:
Another indication of your stupidity is that you connect having a good knowledge of how a solvent business operates, with being a "decent" member. I'm still a little dazed by your thinking on that one.

Perhaps the moderator should state this in the forum rules and guidelines, that when you become a member of this >> plasma cutting << forum, you'd better not show any indecency to other members, by not having an good working knowledge of business solvency.

So look darling, I suggest you wait until the time of the month has passed, so you can think a little more clearly, and not make yourself look like a stupid hypocrite.
Wow, I have to wonder.. It's fitting that you are so sensitive to my simple analogy? Thanks for the laugh.. This isn't the first time here you have insulted PlasmaCam and it's users so I figure my mission was accomplished..

I understand reading comprehension is not one of your strong points but where did you see the actual imagined personal attack that justifies returning with a genuine temper tantrum effort at insult.. And then cry for the moderator :lol: You got an A for effort tho...

On the other hand I realize it's easy to hide behind the keyboard and insult along with calling another member stupid that owns a machine from a "non decent company" like PlasmaCam.. In business, our people just drown out guys like you..

But now that it was turned around how does it feel... Oh sorry, you answered that and expressed your feelings nicely.. I'd say if the shoe fits wear it!
You marry into the PlasmaCam family and must accept the fact your software and hardware are proprietary. It's a for better or for worse engagement with overwhelming security. PlasmaCam controls the computer, table, hardware to their advantage IMO. :x
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Re: Plasmacam to Torchmate, thinking of making the move

Post by beefy »

see&see wrote: Wow, I have to wonder.. It's fitting that you are so sensitive to my simple analogy? Thanks for the laugh.. This isn't the first time here you have insulted PlasmaCam and it's users so I figure my mission was accomplished..

I understand reading comprehension is not one of your strong points but where did you see the actual imagined personal attack that justifies returning with a genuine temper tantrum effort at insult.. And then cry for the moderator :lol: You got an A for effort tho...

On the other hand I realize it's easy to hide behind the keyboard and insult along with calling another member stupid that owns a machine from a "non decent company" like PlasmaCam.. In business, our people just drown out guys like you..

But now that it was turned around how does it feel... Oh sorry, you answered that and expressed your feelings nicely.. I'd say if the shoe fits wear it!
You are just making yourself look more and more silly.

First of all you are now saying I target Plasmacam customers and insult them. That's news to me and I have nothing against anyone just because they use a Plasmacam. If you used your brain, you'd see I'm actually fighting for Plasmacam users, and saying I don't think it's right what Plasmacam are doing to them. Seems like your reading comprehension is not one of your strong points too. You'd better get more specific and link to my posts, clearly stating where I "insult' Plasmacam users for the sole reason they use a Plasmacam. I actually think the Plasmacam system is a great easy to use design.

Another example of YOUR lack of reading comprehension is saying I cried for the moderator. Anyone could see I was making a sarcastic remark about your link with decency and knowledge of business solvency. You obviously didn't have the mental capacity to see that and thus misinterpreted it.

You started the insulting so don't try and throw that one at me. I just responded in kind to your insults. I was being diplomatic until you came on the scene with YOUR temper tantrum. So don't try throwing that crap at me either.

Like I said I suggest you wait until your time of the month is over so you can think more clearly, and stop talking untruths about me.

I'll keep my diplomacy with other members while they do the same. With an idiot like you, not so much.
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Re: Plasmacam to Torchmate, thinking of making the move

Post by see&see »

beefy wrote: You are just making yourself look more and more silly.
Wow, you wrote the book on silly here buddy, nothing is more silly and ignorant when you take two analogies, misapply them as personal attacks, knee jerking with ur best vulgar dialect while at the same time shooting yourself in the foot and unknowingly admitting the analogies fit to a tee.. :roll:

Yep, I really believe some folks are dumb as a post..

Walking back your attack on PlasmaCam won't fly here either. When are you finally going to figure out what a lie it is to attack PlasmaCam for not supporting 15 year old software and parts? Which is the same policy every major American company has had for years...

I thought the light bulb would finally come on but I guess not.. :lol: Or maybe your sophistry just won't let you explain your point about supporting 15 year old parts and software.. Which is it?

Like I said, my mission here was accomplished.... bye
You marry into the PlasmaCam family and must accept the fact your software and hardware are proprietary. It's a for better or for worse engagement with overwhelming security. PlasmaCam controls the computer, table, hardware to their advantage IMO. :x
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Re: Plasmacam to Torchmate, thinking of making the move

Post by beefy »

see&see wrote: At least give some of us here a little credit for being intelligent enough to know how a solvent business needs to operate..

Any "decent" member here should realize that in a minute.. But sadly, maybe it's just totally beyond comprehension for some... :roll:
OK, seeing as you keep saying I misinterpreted you, let's get pack to the post shown above, where you started throwing the insults:

1). Any "decent" member here should realize that in a minute.
Well I'm completely dumb if you have not called my in indecent member for not knowing how a solvent business operates.
That seems rather obvious and clear, nothing much to misinterpret.

2). But sadly, maybe it's just totally beyond comprehension for some... :roll:
Likewise, you're basically implying I'm an idiot for not thinking the way you do.

We wouldn't be having this argument if you had not started it with confrontational insulting comments. Sensitivity and misinterpretation has nothing to do with it, and you making repeated statements that I misinterpreted something does not make it so. You're simply trying to divert attention away from the fact that you started the aggression with insults.

I'm trying to talk facts, whereas all you seem to be doing is throwing extra crap into the mix. And I might add, fabricated crap.

I confronted you about about your accusation of me attacking/insulting specifically Plasmacam users, and I see you have sidestepped that one.

And regarding your other comment:
When are you finally going to figure out what a lie it is to attack PlasmaCam for not supporting 15 year old software and parts?

As this is a discussion forum, I expressed an opinion on something. An opinion is neither true or false, therefore it cannot be a lie, as you have just stated. But as you have shown very strongly, you are getting very upset about me expressing my opinion. Hmmm, I would have thought any "decent" forum member would allow others to have their opinion without insulting them (sorry I just couldn't resist :lol: ). There, now you've got me going with the laughing smilies.
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