Software Workflow, Speed, Ease of Use

[Borntofabricate]

Hello All,

I'm in the market to buy a table immediately. Budget is up to $25,000.

The one thing I don't fully understand yet is the varying software that the different tables use.

From my initial reading it seems that most use a CAD program, and then a CAM (e.g. Sheetcam), and then machine control software (e.g. Mach3).
1) Is that correct?

However, there are some tables like PlasmaCam (Design Edge) and Westcott Plasma (Design 2 Cut) that use one piece of software for everything including drawing.
2) Are there any others in my budget range?

Most importantly I would like input on how aggravating (or easy) it is to use 3 different pieces of software to draw, process, and cut an item.
3) Do you spend a lot of time in each program or is it largely set and forget once the CAM and machine software are configured?
4) Does it make troubleshooting more difficult?
5) Do you believe you burn up a lot of time because of having to use/maintain/transfer between 3 different pieces of software?

6) Any input on the easy/difficulty of use of specific programs would be very appreciated as well.

Apologies if I didn't frame these questions very well. I'm pretty lost at this point.

[djreiswig]

I have no experience with a table like PlasmaCam. Mine uses the 3 software design. I think this gives me more flexibility. I can use any CAD program I like. SheetCam is very easy to use, and with the post processor design it is easy to modify to get the gcode to activate different features on the machine. I don't find it overly complicated using 3 steps.

[Borntofabricate]

Thank you. That's the kind of input I'm looking for. I do see an advantage to learning/using a 3rd party CAD program since they are typically being constantly upgraded.

After you draw a new product, a say a simple bracket, how much time does it take to set up Sheetcam again to actually cut it?

[schmaus]

I have used a Plasmacam table and owned a Torchmate and now have a borrowed older Bulltear table to build my new table. There is good and bad to all of them. Personally I hated drawing in Plasmacam but like everything else about it. I also hated Torchmate cad. But I have years of experience with Autocad so I may be biased. Now at home I use Draftsight which is the best free cad program in my opinion (almost identical to Autocad). Sheetcam seems pretty easy to use for the cam software. The best advice I can give is download the software before you purchase a table and practice practice practice. If you have no cad experience I would recommend Plasmacam.

Once you setup the Cam and Motion software you don't need to make changes to often. You spend way more time in the drawing software.

[acourtjester]

The process in not long after you understand the flow. you draw a part (CAD or art type) then setup the cutting perimeters (CAM) then the table operational software ( mach or newer table are going with Linux). Some of the table manufactures lump them together, This puts you into buying only their software and getting help from them. With the 3 type package the help can be obtained in a more open forum like here. SheetCam has automatic updates for free ( they pop up when you start the program and take maybe a minute to complete). Once SheetCam is setup it takes a few minutes to generate g-code, this goes to the table operational software by file transfer, if the material ready, you just push Go.
You do not need to redraw a part unless you change it, you can download files from here run them through Sheetcam and be cutting them in 5 minutes.

[Borntofabricate]

schmaus,

I don't have any CAD experience and I'm sure once I get to know a program I won't want to switch.

Did you have the older Plasmacam software or Design Edge?

acourtjester,

That's very helpful. It sounds like for most people the CAM and table g-code software work well the majority of the time and isn't labor intensive at all.

[schmaus]

I used someone else's table it was DHC2 not design edge. The thing I liked most was the ease of changes to the drawing. If you want to make changes to 3 tier setup you have to go back to the cad software and so on. I do more one off stuff and I think it is quicker with Plasmacam even though I would still draw main drawing in draftsight. once you learn your software it is really quick to go from finished drawing to cutting.

[djreiswig]

Like acourjester said, a few minutes. Basically once you have your part drawn, you load the drawing into SheetCam and drop it on the material where you want it. If you have all of your tools for different materials set up in SheetCam (it remembers them), then you set up an operation with the proper tool, check/adjust piercing & lead in's. The run the post processor to output the gcode. Load it into Mach3, set your zeros and hit start.
If you need to modify the drawing, then go back to CAD and then add a new part in SheetCam and repost.
Once you do it a few times, it goes really quickly.

[IBBruin]

I'm very biased since I use Aspire exclusively for the CAD part. And like stated earlier, most of the time spent with software is actually drawing. I have Aspire on one laptop on my bench with a very comfortable chair. I sometimes work with multiple different files getting them ready to cut. Once I have them like I want them, I transfer them to a USB stick then plug that into the laptop I use on my plasma table. Load them into Sheetcam, configure cut paths, run the post processor. Fire up Mach3, load the gcode file and cut. The Sheetcam/Mach3 process takes less than 3 minutes.

[destroyer000]

i was in this boat when i was looking to buy a table, ive only every used a plasma cam, altho the software is easy to use and its an all in one deal, i ended up buying a table that uses a cad program sheet cam and mach 3, and honestly it does exactly what the plasma cam table does just have to do it a different way, took me a good couple hrs to get the jist of it but once i got it up and going i have no problem making a cut file quickly. i like the fact that it uses off the shelf software, i dont have to buy exclusively from plasma cam if i have an issue down the road with software.

[rdj357]

That's great Destroyer. That was one of my big concern/questions. Is, does any other manufacturer/software combo work like the Plasmacam encoder system?

Can you throw a piece of metal out in the middle of the table, physically move the torch to the center of the material scrap, drag your drawing over to the crosshair that's showing you where the torch is on the table, and cut it there?

[djreiswig]

With Mach3 you put the part in SheetCam where you want it on the material and then move the torch to your material (I usually use the corner of the part) and zero the X & Y. I think you can set SheetCam up to use the center as the zero point but I've never done that.

[djreiswig]

SheetCam basically has an outline of the material whatever size you choose and you drop the drawings wherever you want them. You can flip and rotate them to make them fit. It's nice because if you have a large sheet you can cut some parts and save the job and bring it back up later to add more parts and the already cut parts still show so you know where you still have material. I've never used a PlasmaCam so I don't know anything about them.

[BanksAg]

I don't have much more to offer that hasn't already been said, except I was in the same boat a little over a year ago. We were looking at tables and I was worried about first having to learn multiple pieces of software, and then second having to teach high school students to use those same pieces. While I was intimidated at first, I soon found that it really wasn't that bad; both the students and I have picked it up pretty quick. It also helps a lot that there are some really good resources online and on this forum that walk you through step-by-step, and even show you how to troubleshoot/resolve issues. Don't let the multiple pieces of software worry you - they really aren't that bad.

[Borntofabricate]

You guys are answering my questions and then some. Does sheetcam do automatic nesting well?

[rdj357]

I see a lot of folks post about the catastrophic problems with a tip up. When it drags the material and/or causes the stepper to lose steps. Also if there is a problem with cutting that you need to go back and correct seems difficult in Mach 3 for instance. I think this is an area where the Plasmacam makes life easier.

Because the encoders are sending the location of the head back to the software, there is no such thing as losing steps. Also with their full height control if there is contact in rapid travel it will stop the torch. I'm sure other height control systems do this as well.

Now let's say I'm cutting something out of the center of a 3x3 sheet of metal. On the the perimeter cut of the design and the torch hangs up halfway around and drags the sheet over and out of square, knocks the machine torch off the magnetic mount, and stops cutting (obviously). The solution for me is to put the torch back on and fix the tip up situation, then move the torch to the corner of the sheet on my drawing (by clicking Alt-V and then clicking on the nodepoint of the sheet I drew around my piece. If I need to slide the piece over to correct it's location, I do so. Then double check another corner or two to make sure the metal is back in place. Then I manually move the torch head to directly over where it stopped cutting. The yellow crosshairs on my screen that show me the location of the torch head will show me where on the path it stopped cutting so I just click to break the cut path there, select the part that hasn't cut yet, and hit cut to finish cutting the piece out.

I know, know, know that as a company they are idiots most of the time but I find that their table and software are quite capable.

[djreiswig]

You can start in the middle of the cut in Mach. The screen shows the moves around the part. As you step through the code it shows the cut segments in white. Just find the correct one that is close and start the code from there. Then when the torch reaches the point that it needs to start cutting, click Torch Fire. It will continue on from there. Maybe not quite as graceful, but it works.

[steel 35]

You guys are answering my questions and then some. Does sheetcam do automatic nesting well?

Columns & row's / Manual; So it works better then my automatic one, but I still compare.

And you May see (Mr Sheetcam) on here Writing custom codes for individuals

[Borntofabricate]

Thanks.

I've been watching youtube videos so now I have a general idea of how CAD/sheetcam/machine software works. I can see the advantages to plasmacam's software, but it looks like the 3 software will be fine for my use. Most of my cutting will be repetitive once I get the drawing correct.

Has anyone used Westcotts "Design2Cut" or have any background on it?

[Bobkovacs]

Regardless of which system you use, the vast majority of your time will be spent in the design. Once I finish a design in Inkscape, it takes about 2 minutes to bring it into Sheetcam, create a cutting operation, move a few start points around, and process the G-code. I use Repetier Host for machine control, and it imports the G-code file in a few seconds, and then I just move the torch to my start point and hit "start".

[Borntofabricate]

Thank you. I was mostly thinking about when minor changes need to be made that I would be spending a lot of time moving files between programs and readjusting the settings. It's good to hear that won't be the case. Many plasmacam people do make comments like "I'm sure glad I don't have to fool with g-code" as if it's a huge hassle, but I'm sure most of them haven't actually used it. The other thing I was concerned about was having to troubleshoot 2 pieces of software (settings) instead of just one.

Once I have a part like I want it and fully nested for say a 4x8 sheet is Sheetcam the only place I can save all the settings or does Mach3/4and CommandCNC also let you save it?

[djreiswig]

Once you have the gcode you can run it again as long as you zero your torch in the same place. Mach has machine and motor settings. All of the cut parameters are in sheetcam. You usually don't have to change Mach once you have things working.

[Borntofabricate]

Thank you.

[acourtjester]

Like many things what you learn the first is what you like until someone shows you a better way. Software is like that for those that have Plasmacam or those that use the 3 type versions. But knowing how to look at G-code and see the info and understanding how it helps you is another thing when you have a problem. Attached is an image of a group of parts I have cut many time. each one was drawn separately and was nested in SheetCam very easily. You just use add part for each new addition you can move the parts any way you want and position them where you ant too. They are save in a JOB file and if you want to change things you load the JOD file into SheetCam and add or subtract parts and make a new JOB file with a different name. then you create another G-code with that change so you have both to select from to cut. In the G-code shown each part and is ID by the drawing name, The other info is where is starts and the operational commands to start the cut action.
The more knowledge you have the better off you are. Bornto I sent you a PM from here

nested parts for table in SheetCam.jpg

g-code2.jpg

[Borntofabricate]

You're great at explaining things. Being able to easily add/delete parts from the nest will be nice.