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PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby Joe Jones » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:29 am

jimcolt wrote:Plasmacam does do a great packaging job. Jim


I agree 100% there! The crate they send the machines in is built so well, it could be used to transport Cubans to Florida!

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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby Joe Jones » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:35 am

Capstone wrote: why would you double down and even try to give them more money?!


When you already own three machines, and you have purchased many thousands of dollars in additional parts and accessories, it is not really smart to change brands and software, so that you have two different platforms you must learn and operate, and alternate between. It is like when you have an assortment of Makita cordless power tools. Yes, you COULD move to Milwaukee or DeWalt if you are not completely happy with the Makita tools, but then you need a whole separate assortment of battery chargers, batteries, accessories and such. It becomes a problem itself.

If I choose to abandon PlasmaCam, I will probably sell EVERYTHING, tables, parts, accessories, software, etc. and move completely to another manufacturer, like JD Squared.

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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby Joe Jones » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:44 am

rdj357 wrote:I can see how this thread can and likely will turn into a bash PlasmaCAM (and apparently by extension, their owners) but let me clear a few things up. Their tables are in fact good quality. Despite the rah rah crowd claiming a bolt together table is cheap and chincy compared to their homemade iron fortresses their table is quite capable of full sheets of thick material. There is a member here who regularly cuts 3/4 and 1" material on his 5x10 table. Despite the 'island of misfit toys' rant about the software, I'm able to use it and help many people right here on PlasmaSpider.


I agree. The tables are quite capable for their price.

Please go both barrels on their shady, unacceptable, vile, childish, ignorant business practices. They've earned it. They got a little excited in their piecemeal software market by overpricing upgrades and being secretive about what those upgrades actually do. They lose credibility by leaps and bounds when they show that glossy book and video but neglect to inform their customers just what upgrades must be purchased to accomplish what's shown in the ad. They have decades long history of poor business practices and sketchy support. Business wise it is obvious that their rise to popularity was due to their being innovative at the right time in history. That day has passed and now they are a money hungry, desperate company that desperately needs to hire a business adviser and marketing strategist if they have a shred of hope at competing in the current market.


:roll: I cannot argue with this.

I'm perfectly happy with my PlasmaCAM (Samson) machine in its performance and reliability. I am perfectly happy with the software that is an easy to use CAD program with integrated CAM. Were I to go back in time 5 years when I got this table knowing what I know now I'd likely do it again. Today I guarantee I would build my own or look to Wescott, JD2, or the like simply because I wouldn't hitch my wagon to the assholes at PlasmaCAM that insist they're gods in the market and would worry about their continued ability to operate.


The company is certainly going though growing pains, and they could use a good, highly paid P.R. man!

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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby Joe Jones » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:52 am

Metriccar wrote:This guy Joe Jones rattles on about how Plasmacam does everything wrong then goes and buys two additional machines from them. Do they must be doing something right otherwise he would have bought a wescott or something else right?


Not quite right. I bought two additional USED machines from former owners, and now that I am familiar with the machines and the software, I do not want to go trough the learning curve of another manufacturer and software.

"The Devil you know, is better than the Devil you don't know."

Or did he just spend $6000 out of spite?


I explained my reasons for purchasing the two 2x2 machines.

DesignEdge is excellent software. The table construction is fine. The servo motors are great. Plasmacam has an excellent piece of equipment.


DE is good. I would not go so far as to call it "excellent." There is a lot of room for improvement on the table construction. The Z axis needs a servo motor.

Some people actually have one Plasmacam table and don't buy extra tables and there is absolutely no reason to buy additional tables for "spares" nor is there any reason to have spares unless it's springs, belts and maybe a few other cheap things totaling less than $100 and that's only if you're doing high volume production and can't afford 2 days downtime, which clearly he's not.


Wow! So YOU are the guy who was anointed by God to determine the needs of other people! I always wondered who it was! :lol:

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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby Joe Jones » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:00 am

see&see wrote:
Met,

I wouldn't read too much into what Joe wrote here without being familiar with the whole situation. Joe is fully supportive of PlasmaCam products as any of us would be. He's done many PlasmaCam instructional videos and posted them online as well as helping a lot of newcomers with the product.

His beef here is regarding a business action, possibly by lower management who sold and accepted hard money for two fairly pricey products on E-Bay and than obviously later made up a story about the reason for not supplying same after the fact. I suspect the actual PlasmaCam controlling owner knew nothing of this proceeding. I saw the auction myself and thought about doing the same thing myself as I noticed it was a good buy. When you sell on E-Bay as many of us do there is a strict set of rules, actually a contract you agree to and we are legally held to that contract if push comes to shove. Apparently, that wasn't followed in this case and more details will follow I'm sure.

A lot of what Joe does is "with tongue in cheek" and most folks that might at first reject a sense of humor find it a bit rash and I can understand that. Myself, I found Joe's video quite entertaining.. As for what Jim Colt wrote I agree fully...


THANK YOU, for your rational, informed, considered evaluation of this situation, and for being one of the few people who fully understands. You are 100% correct. My frustration with PlasmaCam is that I am seeing them do things that no sensible business would do, and that worries me. I have invested a lot into PlasmaCam, and I want them to be around. I used to be a HUGE proponent of PlasmaCam, but it is difficult to groom a dog when it bites you at every opportunity. They seem to be Hell bent on self-destruction, and they don't seem to want to listen to their customers.

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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby Joe Jones » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:56 am

So we work out EXACTLY how I was to purchase those two machines through eBay, and pay for them with my credit cards.

TWICE, I had paid for each machine with a separate credit card, because when you keep your card balances below a certain percentage of the available credit, it doesn't DING your credit score.

TWICE I paid for both machines with separate cards, and TWICE PlasmaCam refunded my money to both cards.

The third time, we got it all worked out (or so I thought) and I logged into eBay to pay for the machines. SURPRISE! Both machines were combined into a single invoice for $6,990.00 :?

So I paid the invoice with a U.S. Bank credit card. Done ... RIGHT? NOPE!

I immediately get an alert text from Citibank, asking me, "Did you just attempt to put a $6,990.00 charge on your Citibank card ending in -#### which was DECLINED" ? Well, NO I DID NOT, thank you very much! :x

So My cards are now locked up, LifeLock goes into action flagging all of my major credit cards for potential fraud, and a call to Citibank reveals that "GOTORCH" tried to charge both machines on one of the previous cards I had used to pay for ONLY ONE machine, without my knowledge or consent.

I called PlasmaCam. "Hi thank you for calling PlasmaCam..." I said, "Who am I speaking with?" The voice replied, "This is John ... HI JOE." Now ... maybe it is just me, but I tend to believe that if they are using Caller I.D. to decide which calls to answer and which calls to NOT ANSWER, and they KNOW who is calling ... why don't they just pick up the phone and say, "Hi Joe! This is John. What's up?"

So I asked John, "Why did PlasmaCam try to charge $6,990.00 to one of my credit cards without my knowledge or consent?"

Get ready for it ....

Are you ready ...

TRY not to laugh ...

John replied, "We have absolutely nothing to do with GOTORCH. They are a separate company... an online company. We don't know anything about these GoTorch purchases. I am looking at your file and we haven't heard from you since last May when you purchased ..."

I said, "Let's not play that game. I want to know why someone attempted to collect the money for those two GoTorch machines on my #### credit card without asking me for permission! There is a REASON I used two separate credit cards!"

He said, "We have nothing at all to do with GoTorch. You will have to contact them. Look them up online."
I asked him for the phone number of GoTorch ... "I don't know how to contact them. Google it..." I hung up.

A FEW MINUTES LATER, I received an E-mail from Brian Henderson, Sales Manager of PLASMACAM, thanking me for my purchase of the GoTorch machines, and attached .. a PDF file of the sales invoice!

It all makes perfect sense now. Every time I buy a Big Mac combo meal from McDonalds, Burger King sends me a "Thank you for your purchase!" E-mail along with a PDF copy of McDonald's sales receipt :lol:

If you want to know the EXACT conversation, call PlasmaCam. They RECORD and ARCHIVE every telephone conversation WITHOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE OR CONSENT.

Submitted for your future PlasmaCam / Samson 510 / GoTorch buying decision consideration ....

http://flic.kr/s/aHsm9fnmMr



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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby djreiswig » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:27 pm

All this mess makes me glad I briefly looked at PlasmaCam and then quickly moved on to a Bulltear/StarLab table from Matt in Minnesota. Matt has been nothing but helpful. Even taking calls and answering e-mails on evenings and weekends. Very upstanding guy and a very high quality product. Thanks Matt.

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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby rdj357 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:38 am

Correct djr. The social and marketing world has left PlasmaCAM in the dust. They have a great product that is actually reasonably well priced but their tactic of secretive pricing, indignant attitude toward licensed software users about providing information on the content of updates, deity-like complex about the use of their software, and overall disrespect for their customers and potential customers is going to kill them. What was common practice years ago is no longer the market average. This is the information era and they've stubbornly clung to the sinking bit of the Titanic rather than change a single thing. Any changes they make are to fortify their position rather than respond to the changing market.

Their manager is ill-informed and behind the times. If the owner is one and the same and he continues to cling to prehistoric marketing and customer relations tactics then he will either ride it to the end or reorganize under a chapter 11. If he has put someone in place that is making these decisions for him then he would do well to replace that person with a forward-thinking person or take the reins back with a renewed attitude of success and customer service.

I own one, I love it. I love the software and use it for MUCH more than just plasma processes. I, however, could never in good conscience EVER recommend that anyone do business with the company until and if they restructure their attitude toward consumers. I'm researching my options for replacement or conversion of this table to other controls should I be faced with the need in the future.
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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby acourtjester » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:56 am

It is amazing how today with all the communication paths and with being able to talk with people you may never meet anywhere in the world. Companies (or people) still do not realize how fast the word gets out about a shady deal they try to do.
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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby Joe Jones » Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:01 pm

It is a real shame. I had so much faith in PlasmaCam, the company, the tables, and the software, that I poured a TON of money into them, certain that I would eventually generate a nice side income from signs and metal art. What was once a source of pride for me, has now become this albatross that I would already have rid myself of, if I could have found the time to locate a suitable replacement.

I am looking HARD at the JD Squared plasma tables and their new router tables. They are not far from me, and I need to get down there to check out their products before the weather turns too cold for a motorcycle ride. Then again, I may just drive my truck down and bring a table or two home with me.

I really ENJOYED routing things with the Samson 510 table and DesignEdge software, but now, with all of these $^%&* GAMES being played by PlasmaCam, I am uncomfortable even having DesignEdge on my computers, or having those computers connected tot he Internet.

I'd sure like to find one talented software engineer who could look inside of DesignEdge, NOT to pirate the software, NOT to circumvent their license, but just to see what back doors and unauthorized access (if any) is built into the software.

That new "Computer Number" that 4.44 generates in a big red flag for me. Having used GoToMeeting and Team Viewer, I know the capabilities of one computer to connect to another remote computer without the owner's knowledge or consent. All the remote computer needs is a unique identification ... you know ... like the Computer Number DesignEdge now assigns to every computer running the software.


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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby metalmanartsk » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:28 pm

rdj357 wrote:
Capstone wrote:More importantly, I knew that the real hook was the software that drove the table, and I quickly saw that PlasmaCAM owners were on their own little island of misfit toys; never quite able to play nice with the rest of the community.


I can see how this thread can and likely will turn into a bash PlasmaCAM (and apparently by extension, their owners) but let me clear a few things up. Their tables are in fact good quality. Despite the rah rah crowd claiming a bolt together table is cheap and chincy compared to their homemade iron fortresses their table is quite capable of full sheets of thick material. There is a member here who regularly cuts 3/4 and 1" material on his 5x10 table. Despite the 'island of misfit toys' rant about the software, I'm able to use it and help many people right here on PlasmaSpider.

Please go both barrels on their shady, unacceptable, vile, childish, ignorant business practices. They've earned it. They got a little excited in their piecemeal software market by overpricing upgrades and being secretive about what those upgrades actually do. They lose credibility by leaps and bounds when they show that glossy book and video but neglect to inform their customers just what upgrades must be purchased to accomplish what's shown in the ad. They have decades long history of poor business practices and sketchy support. Business wise it is obvious that their rise to popularity was due to their being innovative at the right time in history. That day has passed and now they are a money hungry, desperate company that desperately needs to hire a business adviser and marketing strategist if they have a shred of hope at competing in the current market.

I'm perfectly happy with my PlasmaCAM (Samson) machine in its performance and reliability. I am perfectly happy with the software that is an easy to use CAD program with integrated CAM. Were I to go back in time 5 years when I got this table knowing what I know now I'd likely do it again. Today I guarantee I would build my own or look to Wescott, JD2, or the like simply because I wouldn't hitch my wagon to the assholes at PlasmaCAM that insist they're gods in the market and would worry about their continued ability to operate.


Hi I have owned a 4 X 4 plasma cam since 2009, I have had very little trouble with my table. Now I have a cutting issue. I called Plasma Cam today and they refused to help me out saying I did not upgrade the soft ware, the cost would be around $1000 dollars. maybe some one can help online.
when I cut from the home position a straight line to the controller end which is 48 inches, the screen shows I have travelled 48 inches but the machine really stops at the 46 inch mark.I have changed the belt to no avail. I find it disappointing that Plasma cam would take this position, I need to upgrade to at least a 5 X 10 table to get away from indexing material that have large cut areas. Hope some one has an answer to my table problem.

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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby see&see » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:06 pm

Metalmanartsk,

If you go to the PlasmaCam owners forum you will probably have luck and get some good advice to fix the problem or why PlasmaCam won't help you.

Be sure to list your table model and version of Design Edge..
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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby Old Iron » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:59 pm

You don't say if it's the X or Y axis.
If you're not loosing steps on the stepper motor or a gear isn't loose then, it sounds like the steps per inch needs to be changed to get the other 2 inches.
At that point you may not get a true hole and will have to change the other directions steps per inch too.

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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby rdj357 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:09 pm

Old Iron wrote:You don't say if it's the X or Y axis.
If you're not loosing steps on the stepper motor or a gear isn't loose then, it sounds like the steps per inch needs to be changed to get the other 2 inches.
At that point you may not get a true hole and will have to change the other directions steps per inch too.


The PlasmaCAM tables all use servo motors with encoder feedback that reports the torch location back to the computer. Sounds like something else is off but will have to know more about what software version he's using on the table and there is more folks over on the Owner's Community that can help that are running his same machine and setup.
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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby Francisco » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:26 am

Metalmanartsk:

Quite probably, the timing pulley on the gantry servomotor´s shaft is worn down to 46/48 = 96% of its original pitch diameter. The pulley is held in place with a small setscrew and a bit of Loctite; you'll have to undo the screw and heat up the pulley (hot air gun) to take it out. Use a drop of Loctite on the replacement.

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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby Joe Jones » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:47 am

Post a photo of your setup. I am guessing that your torch is mounted protruding from the carriage, and so the torch already has a 2" lead on the total gantry travel distance.

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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby Metalsouljahdesigns » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:04 pm

Are there any programs available to plasmacam 510 owners that will run it like design edge and not have to add Mach 3 or any other type of cnc assisted nerve center.

For example plasmacam has disconnected my program or made it inaccessible for me to use. I had a stroke and I was financing it through their broker. When I couldn’t make payment they shut it down no warning. Now I have owned a shell of a Samson 510 and it has been sitting in its original crate. I have used it for approximately 8 hours and I can’t even fire it up. Through this ordeal they didn’t even want it back.
So does any one know how I can get my design edge to work or would some one be interested in buying it. I payed a total of
$19,000.00 to get it here to Hawaii.
My purchase included :
Advanced Designedge program with DTHC
Slats
5’ x 10’ Table(Red)
Cables
Gantry
A disc of 10 designs
A video manual
Crate
The shipping weight according to the crate is 700lbs.
I also got the new updated manual disc in the mail.
That’s what I don’t get they cut my line and still rub salt in the wound.
I had also bought a ThermalDynamics cutmaster 85 with the regular torch it comes with and some consumables.
Could some one advise please

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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby Joe Jones » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:52 am

I am so sorry to hear about this. Didn't you have some sort of insurance coverage to handle bills in the event of something like a stroke? Wouldn't your bank help you out? What about family?

Personally, I wouldn't finance a half-bitten gumball through PlasmaCam, but that is just me, I guess.

Are you able to pick up payments now? Do you have a source of income?

Joe

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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby beefy » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:11 pm

More guys very unhappy with Plasmacam:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/plasmacam ... tware.html

Seems like they actually want to go out of business.
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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby jimcolt » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:06 pm

When you have more CNC plasma tables in the field than any other company in the world.....expect to have a few end users that are not fully satisfied. The thread attached here on CNC zone is from the same end user that owns multiple Plasmacam tables.....used for routing and for Plasma cutting. He likes the systems, though is very vocal with the things that he would do differently if he owned or operated the company. In this case the issue was with selling practices on Ebay....not necessarily issues with the machine itself (though he also has some issues there!)

As an 18 year owner of Plasmacam systems from their first model 98-Z to my current unit...an over 12 year old DHC-2, I will say I am perfectly happy with the software, the cut quality and the reliability of the machine. When I bought this 12 year old machine new...there were not a lot of choices in the price range for CNC plasma's with servo drives and integrated torch height control. Today there are many choices though the Plasmacam units are often chosen based on their easy to learn and easy to use combined, integrated CAD/CAM/Machine Control software.

I have been plasma cutting for close to 40 years, have built 6 or 7 home built cnc tables. Most of the metal parts for each of my home built machines were designed and cut using the Plasmacam table.

Most of the issues I hear about Plasmacam have to do with the way they choose to run their business. The machines have few mechanical options, but a few different levels of software options. I always suggest upgrading the software to their advance height control and advanced machine control levels when you buy it....being a plasma guy I know that height control and good motion control are the keys to cut quality and consumable life. Some buyers however prefer to purchase with the highest priority based on price, not performance, and leave out the important updates.

Plasmacam also chooses to sell direct (no dealers or distributors, and suggest that their users join their large owners community in order to assist with the learning curve, cut quality issues and technical support issues.

Bottom line, with all the choices available today, Plasmacam is still a great cnc plasma cutting system. If you shop around....you will find as many as 30 manufacturers with machines in the similar price range. Review as many as you can and when you purchase choose the company and features that suit your needs best.

I understand why people use these social media sites to knock a company that they had bad experiences with. Unfortunately....what you don't often see on negative posts like this are what the far larger majority of satisfied customers think! Jim Colt


beefy wrote:More guys very unhappy with Plasmacam:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/plasmacam ... tware.html

Seems like they actually want to go out of business.

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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby beefy » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:35 pm

Having been well ripped off by an excavation equipment manufacturer that most people will have heard of (they almost seem to have a cult following), I've came to realise the initial purchase and how they deal with problems afterwards are 2 completely different things. Can't say too much because big companies can be like dictators and want to financially kill you if you bad mouth them.

In just a few short weeks I'll actually be working somewhere with a Plasmacam. Having heard of many happy users, I'm looking forward learning all its features and see what it has and hasn't got.

But like I say there's nothing worse than paying good money for quality, and when there's an issue, you find out the other side of the manufacturer. So I think threads like this are quite important so potential buyers don't get caught up in all the hype of how good the table itself is. So look in between the lines or these posts and see if this is just a few disgruntled customers, or have PC got too big for their boots and are starting to think they are Gods give to plasma guys.
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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby Joe Jones » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:57 am

jimcolt wrote:When you have more CNC plasma tables in the field than any other company in the world.....


I'd like to see some DATA on that claim. :lol: PlasmaCam MAY have more GoTorches and PlasmaCam 4x4s out there, but the majority of them are most likely home hobby tables. I seriously doubt PlasmaCam corners the market on industrial plasma cnc tables.

jimcolt wrote:The thread attached here on CNC zone is from the same end user


Nope. WRONG! Not my thread, Jim. Next time, CHECK!

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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby JillWest » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:38 am

My advice is for you to return the machine that you did not pay for to the finance company, as promised in the contract you signed. Apparently you have hung them out to dry for a couple of years without returning phone calls or cooperating in any way. If you resell the equipment, the buyer will only be paying for stolen property that they have to return anyway.

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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby jimcolt » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:57 am

I certainly agree that Plasmacam does not make industrial CNC plasma cnc machines. Plasmacam and about 30 other manufacturers of similarly priced machines produce entry level cnc plasma machines that are designed for art, hobbysists, small welding shops and businesses, etc. Above these machines are what I label as light industrial machines that typically range from about $25k to $80k, then above $80k (and into the millions ) are industrial CNC plasma tables that you would find on the production floor at Cat, Deere, steel service centers and shipyards. What I said was that Plasmacam has more cnc plasma tables in the field than any other company in the world. Since they are not a publicly traded company they do not need to divulge their sales unit numbers or sales dollars.....so you will likely never know exactly how many machines they have sold. I have a good idea based on working with them for the last 20 or so years.


Sorry on suggesting the thread on CNCZone was yours, I have the order of posts inverted on that site and it looked like your post was first, my bad. Here is the link.... http://www.cnczone.com/forums/plasmacam ... tware.html


Joe Jones wrote:
jimcolt wrote:When you have more CNC plasma tables in the field than any other company in the world.....


I'd like to see some DATA on that claim. :lol: PlasmaCam MAY have more GoTorches and PlasmaCam 4x4s out there, but the majority of them are most likely home hobby tables. I seriously doubt PlasmaCam corners the market on industrial plasma cnc tables.

jimcolt wrote:The thread attached here on CNC zone is from the same end user


Nope. WRONG! Not my thread, Jim. Next time, CHECK!

Joe

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Lmpsr70357
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 1:21 pm
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Re: PlasmaCam RENEGES on eBay Sales

Postby Lmpsr70357 » Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:40 pm

Joe Jones wrote:
Bobkovacs wrote:I've just got to comment on this- "$500 shipping"? For a 2'x2' table? x2, I'm assuming?


First, I will say this for the record: I LIKE the tables and I REALLY LIKE the software, even with all of the issues of seemingly endless .01 secret software updates (14 in the last nine months). Yes, they are FUN to use when they work, and a PITA when they don't.

I believe there are probably 60 more features that could be added to the software to make DesignEdge truly cutting edge, and put it worlds ahead of the other programs, but PlasmaCam seems reluctant to add new features. They have spent the last year on a Witch Hunt, looking for some Bozo who was offering to unlock the Full Monte for $1,000.00, and they have royally pissed off a segment of their paying customers in the process!

I wanted two more PlasmaCam tables in the 2x2 size so I could:

1. Go portable for car shows and craft fairs.

2. Have spare parts available for my three main tables.

3. Experiment with things like a low powered laser, paint pens, the PlasmaCam engraver I purchased, and perhaps other accessories that another person or company, or I myself have created or might create to run on a PlasmaCam table.

4. Use the GoTorch on existing surfaces to route a compass rose, or perhaps "Welcome to Our Home!" into hardwood floors at the entrances to homes and such, for the purpose of an inlay of a different wood, or a colored resin, or a stainless steel or polished copper inlay, or whatever. A regular PlasmaCam table would be nearly impossible to set up for that purpose.

For mobile shows, I would not use a plasma torch and a compressor. I'd set one up with a small router and the other one with a low powered red or blue laser for etching plastic and wood and foam blanks on the fly, all run off of a small Honda generator.

As for the $500.00 eBay shipping charge:


When you understand the bigger picture, you will understand why PlasmaCam set the shipping at $500.00 on eBay.

PlasmaCam has been playing a game with eBay for many years, using them for free advertising and for buyer recruitment. eBay can be abused for FREE INTERNATIONAL ADVERTISING!

eBay told me that up to and including MY attempt to purchase two GoTorch machines via the GoTorch eBay auctions, PlasmaCam has NEVER completed a GoTorch sale transaction through eBay.

When you advertise something on eBay you enter into a contract with them to HAVE that item ON HAND and ready to ship when the auction ends, or the BUY IT NOW option is exercised. You also agree to pay eBay 10% of the sale price, which would be $300.00 on a $2,995.00 GoTorch machine sale. So PlasmaCam added $360.00 to their normal $140.00 shipping charge ($360+ $140 = $500) to cover the eBay sales commission so THEY would not have to pay that $300 fee out of their pockets, and the additional $60.00 was to cover the 2% credit card processing fees. PlasmaCam wasn't about to pay EITHER of those out of their own pocket. Shifty? You decide.

The "GOTCHA!" is when someone "buys" a machine on eBay and gives them a DREADED credit card! When you buy something with a credit card, you have protections built into your purchase. If the GoTorch machine(s) arrived damaged, incomplete, broken, or not functional, or it was stolen off of my doorstep, or I was unhappy with them for ANY reason, the credit card company would go to bat for me, and refund my money and charge it back to PlasmaCam … and PlasmaCam WOULDN'T have ANY of THAT!

So every time a GoTorch was purchased through the eBay auction, PlasmaCam would tell eBay that the machine was "out of stock" or "damaged" or they would click on "Unable to Fulfill Order" and eBay would let them waltz away without paying any fees for luring in another GoTorch buyer.

PlasmaCam would then contact the "winning bidder" of the eBay GoTorch auction DIRECTLY, and point them to the GoTorch.com website, where the order form would let them buy the GoTorch immediately, with a promise of delivery in only a few business days.

On the GoTorch site, the shipping is "Only $140.00" so LOOK AT HOW MUCH MONEY YOU SAVED BY GOING DIRECTLY TO OUR WEBSITE! The customer would buy the machine for $2,995.00 + $140.00 shipping, and PlasmaCam would instruct them to send a Cashier's Check, a Money Order or wire the funds directly into PlasmaCam's account "for faster processing." The buyer would be unaware of the fact that they have unknowingly forfeited ANY option to recover their purchase price for ANY reason by NOT using a credit card.

So the $500.00 shipping charge" was an imaginary number that was never paid, because buyers would be redirected AWAY from eBay to buy the machines directly from the GoTorch.com website ... thereby cheating eBay out of their $300.00 sales commission for each machine sold, and cheating PayPal out of their credit card processing fees as well ...HUNDREDS of times over many years.

PlasmaCam did not even TRY to do this with ME, because they knew I was onto their game, and they did not want ME to have two more machines due to the fact that I have NINE "FULL MONTE" seats, additional DesignEdge seats that have EVERY option they offer, and those seats are installed onto computers that CAN be used to run ANY PlasmaCam table, including the two new GoTorch machines.

Unfortunately for them, an employee at PlasmaCam recently spilled the beans and announced publicly that additional seats CAN run other tables, when he tried to force another GoTorch owner to MATCH PURCHASE software upgrades for his second GoTorch machine. I discovered this shortly after buying my second table with only two upgrades on THAT DesignEdge license. I hooked up a Full Monte “seat” from table #1 to table #2 experimentally, and VIOLA! I had another fully functional PlasmaCam table.

Recent Bruh-ha-ha on the Owners Community and on my Facebook page has brought this whole DesignEdge licensing issue to a head. PlasmaCam INSISTS that your DE license can ONLY run the table bearing the serial number with which it was purchased. However, they seemed to think they could also demand that you ‘MATCH PURCHASE’ all upgrades for the DE License(s) sold with any additional table(s), and the LAW simply will not give them that omnipotent power. If you wish to buy upgrades for one table, you can do that. If you wish to purchase a second ‘Bare Bones’ machine, you can do that also.

PlasmaCam has ZERO authority to tell you that you must MATCH your software upgrades on additional machines. That would be like Home Depot telling you that you must purchase matching accessories for a second table saw, after you buy the Full Monte of accessories for your first table!

I kept this dirty, dark PlasmaCam secret for FIVE FULL YEARS, by repeatedly telling people that their software was absolutely tied to their table serial numbers and those additional seats could NOT run other tables. It was not my place to expose the lie, and I allowed PlasmaCam to keep it under wraps.

PlasmaCam must have thought they could force me to buy ALL of the software upgrades AGAIN for EACH GoTorch machine ... at some $30,000.00 total cost ... so that I would not use a Full Monte seat from my 510 table #1 to give my GoTorch machines additional capabilities that they claim I had not purchased. I think it is petty and GREEDY on the part of PlasmaCam to insist that one owner of several tables who is the sole operator of those tables must purchase identical software upgrades for EACH table at a cost of $1,000.00 per upgrade/per table. I have lawyers looking at this right now.

So they immediately refunded my money and canceled the eBay order of the two machines without a single WORD of explanation beyond telling eBay they were "out of stock or could not fulfill order" on the GoTorch machines. I know for a FACT that they are not “out of stock” on the GoTorch machines. They just did not want me to HAVE the machines without paying countless thousands of dollars for duplicate software upgrades.

There is a glaring lack of professionalism at PlasmaCam that really bothers me.

THIS is the E-mail I should have received from PlasmaCam on 9/12/2017:

“Dear Mr. Jones.

Thank you for being such a great PlasmaCam customer for the past five years. Our records show that you currently own THREE tables, two Samson 510 tables and one DHC2 4x4 table, and that you purchased tables #2 and #3 used. We have seen your YouTube training videos and also read with amusement, your sometimes heated and controversial participation in the Owners Community forum threads.

We know of your travels around America this past summer to train PlasmaCam table owners on how to use their tables and DesignEdge software so they can feel good about their table purchase and actually “Make Money In Metal Art!” as our slogan states.

We also received, and read with great interest, your generous proposal to invest $150,000.00 of your own money to build and run a PlasmaCam School at your home workshop by holding weekend training seminars on four Samson 510 tables and eight computer work stations. We regret that we declined to assist you in any way in that endeavor. In fact, we didn’t even acknowledge your offer, or consider participating in it’s success, even though we know that the seminars could have translated into additional table sales, software upgrades, and accessory sales, etc.

We are aware of the MANY thousands of dollars you have spent on software upgrades, additional seats, and a wide assortment of parts and accessories for your PlasmaCam tables, including the engraver and the pipe cutting attachment, additional gantry and carriage assemblies and more. We appreciate your continued business and loyalty to the PlasmaCam product line. We know you have other choices, and certainly the resources to move to another table manufacturer at any time.

We see that you just purchased two new GoTorch machines from our eBay auctions, which we were running during the time we had just raised the price of the GoTorch machine by $1,000.00 to $3,995.00 on our own gotorch.com website. The two eBay auctions we were running still listed those machines at $2,995.00 each. You were very keen and fortunate to have purchased both of them before we could change the price of those two machines on the eBay auctions. Congratulations on adding two more machines to you growing inventory of PlasmaCam tables! We look forward to a long and healthy business relationship with you.

You may not be aware of our recent reorganization efforts. We have temporarily ceased shipping the GoTorch machines due to a repackaging effort to reduce shipping costs, and provide more efficient service by streamlining our logistics. Regretfully, we cannot ship your two new GoTorch machines to you in a timely manner.

We are offering to refund your full purchase price to the two credit cards you used, so that you may use those available funds for other purposes. If you prefer, we will hold onto those funds, and notify you the moment your machines are ready to be shipped, but know that it may be several weeks before that may happen. Please reply ASAP with your preference. Of course, if we refund your money, we will honor the winning auction price of $2,995.00 each, plus $140.00 shipping each, to your home when the machines are ready to ship, and only for those two machines you legally purchased through eBay.

Finally, as you are aware, there is some controversy about using enhanced seats to run additional machines for which those software upgrades were not purchased. We both know that your Full Monte seats purchased for your first table Serial # (nnnnn) can run ANY PlasmaCam table, but the license agreement states that an owner will only run a table with the DesignEdge license sold with that table. We are counting on your discretion by keeping this company secret to yourself, as a public announcement of the ability to run any PlasmaCam table with an additional DesignEdge seat purchased for only $498.00 will make it quite difficult for us to sell software upgrades for each individual table a person or company may own.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation in this sensitive matter, and please advise us on how you wish to proceed with the purchase of your two GoTorch machines. We wish you great success in 2017!

John Dennigan
General Manager – PlasmaCam

cc: Jason Bulle



GREAT WALL OF WORDS BATMAN!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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