PITA

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SONIC
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PITA

Post by SONIC »

How often are you guys having to fix issues with your machines?
I've had this thing a few months now and I swear I haven't had a solid week of good cutting yet.
Between Mach3 crashing/becoming unresponsive, candcnc hub disconnecting itself, candcnc PWM module crapping out, candcnc height control board crapping out, stuck consumables, etc I feel like I'm constantly jumping through hoops to get this thing to do what it's supposed to do.

With my CNC router I set it up, hit go and come back to a finished part.
With the CNC plasma I have to babysit and interfere with it and generally just dick with stuff to get it to perform.

I'm really hoping that once I get all this sh*t worked out that it begins to play nice and do it's job. But if it were an employee it would be very fired by now! It's so nice when I hit Run and come back an hour later and my parts are cut. But 9 times out of 10 I hit Run and come back in an hour to see that it made it 10% of the way through the file and something screwed up.

(also as to not walking away from the machine like everyone keeps telling me, I setup my cuts so that they run fine without me there, no tip ups no problems other than the damn machine not functioning correctly)

I suppose I am venting and curious if I've just got a lemon or if this stuff is just not up to the task of being a production machine.
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little blue choo
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Re: PITA

Post by little blue choo »

Sonic it help if you let people know what you are running, table, software, cutter, ect. Maybe even add a tag at the bottom of all your post with that info.

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SONIC
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Re: PITA

Post by SONIC »

Rick,
It's a LDR Table with CandCNC electronics and a PM45XP.

Not looking for troubleshooting help, just curious if i'm the only one that thinks the whole system is a pain in the ass :D
motoguy
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Re: PITA

Post by motoguy »

If you actually have hardware dying, that's a different beast. I've had my Bulltear table (same CandCNC controller/electronics) for just over a year. The first several months were quite frustrating. I did have a legitimate issue with my gantry (which was quickly addressed by Bulltear), but aside from that...all my "WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THIS POS!?" moments have been user error. Or, more accurately, not understanding the functionality/how the different aspects work together. It was a pretty steep learning curve.

I'm pretty comfortable with the system at this point, and regularly work on other things while the table is running. To be fair, a plasma system is much more involve, and dynamic, than a router. A router goes to a fixed point, and moves...that's it. The plasma has to deal with arc feedback (for THC), metallurgical differences (which affect arc voltage, therefor THC), and the fact that parts can tip-up (which is no fault of the hardware itself).

I am getting ready to order the CommandCNC Linux upgrade from CandCNC, for my table. Several of the "learning curve" aspects are for dealing with limitations of Mach (timing, CV, etc).

That being said, LDR is known for having good customer support. I'm sure they'll be happy to help you out as much as possible.
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SONIC
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Re: PITA

Post by SONIC »

Oh yeah Dan's been great. No problems with the table itself.

I bought it used with "no issues" but all of a sudden a bunch of stuff failed so I'm not sure if it was already on it's way out or what.
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Re: PITA

Post by tcaudle »

MACH3 crashing is 100% a PC/software issue. Nothing external to the PC can cause MACH to crash unless you have a MACH plugin issue (or conflicting plugins) and even then its something that would probably happen with great frequency.
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Re: PITA

Post by comeoutswingin »

My biggest problems are stuck consumables and my Z axis loosing steps over a bunch of pierces and stalling out. I hit run and walk away and within 10 pierces I'll be back resetting something.
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Re: PITA

Post by AdrianH »

Could I dare suggest that the start of the arc/piercings and the high levels of noise/rf/high voltages that occur when starting to cut are causing problems with the PC or motor driver? Possibly lack of screening/filtering getting back into the control and PC hardware to cause miss steps.

I get it with my very simple set-up some times and at other times it will run fine, if it is an 2nd user machine check if the cable screens are starting to break down on the moving parts any screws coming loose at earth points, cable glands loose if metal ones are used etc. Just basic items that could be checked over. If you use Mach3 one thing I found was a parallel cable I had in use, the case of the 25 way plug was not connected to the case at the other end, so no screen continuity in the cable. make sure you have a good quality Belkin or similar 25 way cable.

All guesswork as I know nothing of your set up.
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dhelfter
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Re: PITA

Post by dhelfter »

sonic, I don't recall the gentleman you purchased machine from having misfire and port hub issues? Did he mention that? So this leads me to believe it may be in the setup at your location. Just a thought.
Motoguy did hit the nail right on the head in my opinion. cnc plasma and routing are about as far from the same as you can get. I do not think it is a coincidence that you are getting misfires and having very short consumable life. I would be glad to walk you through some tests on Monday if you want to call me.

Thanks
Dan
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Re: PITA

Post by tnbndr »

I never leave my table when it is cutting, sometimes I am three feet away grinding stuff but usually I monitor the cutting. I don't have a lot of issues but sometimes weird things happen.
Cutting three identical parts yesterday, cut the first part fine, second part on small hole torch dove into plate and killed the arc, three times out of 6!!.
Third part cut fine until a short bend line cut, again torch dove into plate and killed the arc. Not sure why this happens.
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SONIC
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Re: PITA

Post by SONIC »

Dan you're right Andy didn't seem to have any issues, but he was also doing artwork that never required near as many pierces as what I'm doing. I can do a sign or an ARP piece no problem, it's the full nested sheet with 3-500 pierces that are a problem.
I'll give you a call on Monday if you've got a few minutes I don't want to take up your whole day
dhelfter
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Re: PITA

Post by dhelfter »

Yes call, morning if possible.
Pierce count is determined by soooo many variables. Clean dry air is a must.
dhelfter
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Re: PITA

Post by dhelfter »

The two issues you list
mach3 becoming unresponsive
loss of port hub
in our experience is electrical noise. These are things I would check:
make sure computer and control box are powered by the same circuit
make sure work clamp is clean tight and attached to metal being cut
attache heavy gauge wire from machine vase to an isolated dedicated ground rod
make sure plasma cutter is not physically "on top" of the control box
make sure none of the cat5 cables are laying next to any high power cables.
also are you using the computer we supplied with the table when Andy bought it?

As for misfires, the easiest way to troubleshoot is to break it down in to systems, then sub systems.
For example, if the red torch on led is illuminated on the sensor pwm, but torch does not fire then issue is within the plasma system. If torch on led is not illuminated then issue is within electronic control system.

If you are unable to cut with 300-500 pierces something major is wrong, that is not at all considered a large cut. On regular occasion I have a nested 5x10 with over 2300 pierces.
Dan
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SONIC
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Re: PITA

Post by SONIC »

Dan,
All of those things are done.
The USB cable has been covered with ferrite cores, tried multiples.
The cat 5 cables have been replaced with cat7 shielded cables.
Using the supplied computer.
Computer is in a shielded industrial control cabinet. As is the candcnc stuff.
Plasma is external under the table.

The misfires aren't caused by the computer they are torch related (hence the macro), it's a stuck consumable misfire, it tries to fire but no spark. And then just sits there uselessly for however long it takes me to realize it happened and then I hit "torch" and it fires and moves on its way.
dhelfter
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Re: PITA

Post by dhelfter »

So even with "all those things done" mach3 still locks up and you have a loss of port hub?
SONIC
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Re: PITA

Post by SONIC »

Yep, the hub is pretty constant failure. Once a day at least.
Mach craps out probably once a week.
dhelfter
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Re: PITA

Post by dhelfter »

There are thousands of systems out there same as yours. Most manufacturers are using the same electronics and Mach3 (ones in the lower price point that is) and that is not normal regardless of what people tell you. We have 6 different style machines running mach3 in our shop and in 15 years I can count on one hand how many times mach3 has "crashed". Twice! Both times on the computer that was also hooked up to the internet.
Loss of port hub daily and mach crashing weekly should be a very easy fix

What I would recommend is first put everything back like it was manufactured. Not suggesting at all that your changes caused any problem, but lets eliminate that possibility.
Get a new port hub from candcnc
Either reinstall mach3 or install on a new computer. All the installation programs, and backups of your profiles and screens and such are on the usb drive that was supplied to Andy when he purchased the machine.

As for plasma cutter misfires, I would contact Hypertherm tech. A misfire every 100 pierces IS NOT normal.

Dan
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Re: PITA

Post by Dingo745 »

Mate I would have to agree with most of your sentiments about CNC plasma cutting.
My previous experiences has all been with home built CNC routers, mill, and CO2 laser
Nearly all of them ran quite well after the usual teething problems so hen I got the urge to try a CNC Plasma I was pretty naive
to how complex to deal with they really are,plus how much more expensive to get setup and cutting compared to say a CNC router.
I have never had too many problems with Mach3 and my plasma is using an Ethernet Smoothstepper which has worked fine so far with no problems.
I have a good THC, a Neuron Simplicity which works fine when the idiot at the controls get's his setting right.
So for me it has been an education and it will be my last plasma cutter, so I think I will attack my lathe next and make that CNC too.
I reckon life is too short at my age to be stuffed around by a temperamental machine so it will b adios pretty soon if you live in Oz and are interested in complete setup.
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Re: PITA

Post by jimcolt »

The issues with stuck consumables:

1. Piercing too close to the material...especially with Finecut consumables...causes low air flow (nozzle orifice too close to material) and does not allow the electrode to fully retract, necessary to start. The Plasma will issue a "stuck consumables" because that is what occurs. Ensure that your ohmic contact is functioning properly and that the pierce heights listed in the operators manual are being achieved, every time.

2. Stuck consumable error will occur if you have momentary air flow starvation at the plasma inlet. I always suggest that a pressure gauge is installed (hard plumbed) right at the inlet. Activate air flow at the torch...read the gauge at your compressor, then read the gauge at the inlet. The inlet gauge will read lower, this indicates the resistive pressure drop in your air system. When the compressor is at the bottom (lowest pressure) part of its cycle it is possible that the inlet pressure occasionally gets below 90 psi....which can cause the stuck consumable error.

3. Worn out or damaged swirl ring (this acts as a bearing, allowing the electrode to slide freely, if damaged it can cause the electrode to stick).

There are about 50,000 of the entry level and light industrial air plasma cnc machines in North America. All of us had some learning curve issues that required more attention at the machine. Most of us now can walk away with the machine cutting....I know I do.

Jim Colt Hypertherm
dhelfter
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Re: PITA

Post by dhelfter »

sonic,
If you would like to send us your control box, cables and computer I would be glad to test system here and get to the bottom of the issue of port hub loss and mach3 crashing for free.
Thanks
Dan
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