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Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

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motoguy
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Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby motoguy » Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:06 am

Had a couple of issues today. Cutting 1/4", and had my DTHC active time too low. Torch ended up dropping down into the pool and dragging. Unfortunately, this occurred (a couple of times) while I was not paying attention to the table. I was able to go back and re-cut the part, but it sure would have been nice if the system shut down when the torch was moved from the mount.

I'd like to see ideas for your implement of a "breakaway e-stop" setup. I've got a Bulltear table, and the entire torch mount is attached magnetically. it should be pretty easy to add a switch there, to send an e-stop signal when the torch moves.

I'll do some Google searching in the morning, but for now I thought I'd drop this here while I'm thinking about it. :)
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Bigrhamr
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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby Bigrhamr » Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:57 am

These guys have a breakaway mount with e-stop circuit built into it. You probably don't want to buy the whole setup but it's somewhere to look for ideas. http://plasmatorchprotectionsystem.com/

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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby VPT » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:44 am

Possibly just a simple break away wire connection for the plasma cutter trigger wire? The table should stop as well when no cutting signal is seen.

tcaudle
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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby tcaudle » Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:57 pm

All you gotta do is get a NC switch in the mount that opens if the torch mount moves and tie it to the EPO on the internal Table I/) . Estop works better than trying to use a LIMIT because limits can be ignored if you happen to be in a homing move. If you happen to have the Feather touch and set it up so the old touch off switch is no the E-stop yoou can add the breakaway NC inot the Estop "loop by take out the Jumper on the FT01 labeled LIMITS and wiring in the breakaway switch. Turn off the torch is not a good idea because that action doesn't generate a fault you can use to stop motion.

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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby BTA Plasma » Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:33 pm

Any switch you have mounted on the lower portion of the Z axis is a consumable. For this reason we mount a switch on top behind the Z axis on the proton. It will trip E-stop when the Z axis over travels in either direction. If the torch hit something and falls off the E-stop will activate because torch height control will bring the Z axis to its lower limit. If the machine is traveling and it hits a tip up the Z axis will travel down until it hits E-stop. If your torch falls off it should arc out and the system will loose the arc ok and stop traveling.

motoguy
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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby motoguy » Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:24 pm

BTA Plasma wrote:Any switch you have mounted on the lower portion of the Z axis is a consumable. For this reason we mount a switch on top behind the Z axis on the proton. It will trip E-stop when the Z axis over travels in either direction. If the torch hit something and falls off the E-stop will activate because torch height control will bring the Z axis to its lower limit. If the machine is traveling and it hits a tip up the Z axis will travel down until it hits E-stop. If your torch falls off it should arc out and the system will loose the arc ok and stop traveling.


What usually happens to me, is the torch catches something just enough to twist the mag mount, but not actually knock the torch off. So the mag mount protects the torch, as intended. However, the torch continues traveling/cutting, while cocked at some odd angle. This off track angle may gouge/cut the metal enough that I can't just rewind and cut from a good point.
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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby BTA Plasma » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:27 pm

What is your rapid clearance plane? What about your plunge safety plane? Check those in sheetcam/options/job options.

motoguy
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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby motoguy » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:28 pm

Rapid clearance .5, plunge safety .3
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motoguy
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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby motoguy » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:34 pm

tcaudle wrote:All you gotta do is get a NC switch in the mount that opens if the torch mount moves and tie it to the EPO on the internal Table I/) . Estop works better than trying to use a LIMIT because limits can be ignored if you happen to be in a homing move. If you happen to have the Feather touch and set it up so the old touch off switch is no the E-stop yoou can add the breakaway NC inot the Estop "loop by take out the Jumper on the FT01 labeled LIMITS and wiring in the breakaway switch. Turn off the torch is not a good idea because that action doesn't generate a fault you can use to stop motion.


I have a Bulltear table. I do have feathertouch, but the Bulltear table does not have a touch-off switch. It relies on Ohmic alone.
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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby BTA Plasma » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:47 pm

A secondary slide adds slop to the system. This is why you see machines that cannot cut at book speeds. The magnetic, limit and ballscrew is the most rigid system you can have with a safety factory. I would bring your rapid clearance up to at least .9. Maybe even over an inch.

motoguy
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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby motoguy » Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:19 pm

I'm quite happy with the maglok setup. It's saved the torch from my inattention on several occasions. :) I think it would be perfect if it had a way to stop motion when there's a deviation from vertical.
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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby East German » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:00 am

Hallo,

my Table makes Feedhold and Torch /Relais out .
That's my setting

By Feedhold is the Zero Point ok by Reset or Stop not.

Regards Peter

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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby tcaudle » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:01 pm

motoguy wrote:
tcaudle wrote:All you gotta do is get a NC switch in the mount that opens if the torch mount moves and tie it to the EPO on the internal Table I/) . Estop works better than trying to use a LIMIT because limits can be ignored if you happen to be in a homing move. If you happen to have the Feather touch and set it up so the old touch off switch is no the E-stop yoou can add the breakaway NC inot the Estop "loop by take out the Jumper on the FT01 labeled LIMITS and wiring in the breakaway switch. Turn off the torch is not a good idea because that action doesn't generate a fault you can use to stop motion.


I have a Bulltear table. I do have feathertouch, but the Bulltear table does not have a touch-off switch. It relies on Ohmic alone.

All you have to do is mount a NC microswtich so if the torch displaces it will trip. even two in series if needed then use the LIMIT jumper on the FT-01 and remove the EPO jumper in the controller.

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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby motoguy » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:34 pm

I like the look of something like this. I already know how Matt feels about it. ;) I'd like something that can stop the torch after a minor collision. I no longer babysit my table like I used to do. Anymore, I just listen for "that doesn't sound right" noises before I investigate. This type of thing would e-stop the system on strikes that can dislodge the torch, but not knock it all the way off the mag mount.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Plasma-Flame-Cutting-Machine-Torch-Lifter-Anti-collision-Clamp-Holder-/252124688575?hash=item3ab3cd70bf:g:vbcAAOSwA4dWHhtC

https://smile.amazon.com/KOHSTAR-Cutting-Anti-collision-Positioning-Function/dp/B01FVJHQ0Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483641019&sr=8-1&keywords=plasma+collision+clamp
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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby BTA Plasma » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:52 pm

We have some sensors coming in that are very very slim that will fit behind your Mag-Lok and if tied to limit will stop the machine if the Mag-Lok moves .060". That will eliminate the issue. BUT be forwarned that it is another wire to hook up so this means if you want to put a router on you will need to address the switch or swap back plates onto the nut/slide.

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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby BTA Plasma » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:54 pm

There are several issues with that troch mount you listed. The first being that is will require an outside 24 volt power supply for the proximity sensors OR a different plunger switch and they are not known to be a accurate way to stop the machine from a 360 degree collision.

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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby motoguy » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:00 pm

BTA Plasma wrote:We have some sensors coming in that are very very slim that will fit behind your Mag-Lok and if tied to limit will stop the machine if the Mag-Lok moves .060". That will eliminate the issue. BUT be forwarned that it is another wire to hook up so this means if you want to put a router on you will need to address the switch or swap back plates onto the nut/slide.


If you've got a setup coming that's a bolt on for your existing hardware, I'll go that way. :)
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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby ovrrdrive » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:27 am

That's a great idea motoguy... Lord knows I've been known to have marathon torch breakaway sessions from time to time. I think I'll look into adding something like this myself.

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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby Dana gear » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:57 pm

I installed a http://www.plasmatorchprotectionsystem.com electronic e-stop control on my Torch mate 3 CNC plasma table 2 years ago, and its one of the best investments I have made on this table, I don't have to baby sit the thing anymore when cutting. I put a sheet on the table hit start and go and do something else. In the event of a crash / tilt up the torch mount will move to protect itself and at the same time its internal switch will stop gantry movement and plasma arc. Once the tilt up/crash or whatever is removed or corrected the plasma torch simply resets into vertical position and self resets its internal switch.

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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby jakeg » Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:51 pm

Following to see what Matt comes up with. After a year or two of watching my table I have got pretty good at listing for "THAT DOESN'T SOUND GOOD" :lol: It can add to the custom sign when a line is 1/4 off from the other Dad's Gerage signs. It's officaily custom and i can charge more ;)

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Re: Idea for breakaway sensor on magnetic torch mount

Postby SPRINGER » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:21 am

Many CNC Plasma cutting machine manufacturers, include as a standard component on their machines,a Collision Sensor on their equipment. Very cost effective, saves your torch from crashes, stops immediately.

Please see the web site : http://rad-ra.com/rad-home/collision-se ... n-sensors/

They have been in business since 1984, the first company to design and build collision sensors. Has saved us a ton of money.


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