Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

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Diesel
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Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

Post by Diesel »

They say a picture is worth 1,000 words. How about a video?

https://youtu.be/ELypQafY1Lo

I recorded this earlier after goofing around for quite a while...and after brewing up a homegrown 4-jaw chuck.
(The 3-jaw chuck does not play nice with square tube. I should have just made a round fixture that would chuck up in the original 3-jaw instead of removing and replacing the 3-jaw. Live and learn.)

So the dry run is supposed to be an inside contour 2" diameter circle cut right at the apex of one radiused corner of the tube.
Tube is 4" x 4" x 0.25" wall with 0.5" radius - I've specified this in SheetCam.
SheetCam's simulation of all cuts that I've tried to do look just fine.
In Mach3 I'm using the rotary profile and setting the pipe radius to 1" - as soon as the G code loads, it resets the radius.

I thought this was interesting: If I place the circle so that it does *not* overlap any of the tube's radii, the dry run goes off without a hitch and the expected motion matches the geometry.

Even a straight line across all of the radius lines in SheetCam (simulating a cut-off) does not result in expected motion.

What am I missing here?
Wrong post processor?

Whatever I'm doing, it's probably a boneheaded newbie error since the dry run motion is completing half of the circle on one side and the other half on the side of the tube directly opposite it.

Many thanks in advance for your help!

Cheers,

Matt
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Re: Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

Post by pertneer »

Post the g-code and I may be able to tell if there is an issue with it.
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Diesel
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Re: Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

Post by Diesel »

Here you go. Thanks for looking at this!
I have a very basic understanding of G code. What's odd to me is that SheetCam's simulation shows everything perfectly.
(Note: DTHC will be turned on for this tool when I actually cut, I have it shut off for now to help eliminate variables.)

Cheers,

Matt


N0010 (Filename: FirstTest_Rotary_20161106_1.tap)
N0020 (Post processor: rotary and scribe addon.scpost)
N0030 (Date: 11/6/2016)
N0040 G20 (Units: Inches)
N0050 F1
N0060 G53 G90 G40
N0070 M116 P2.621
N0080 M115
N0090 G00 Z3.2463
N0100 (Part: Simple_Two_Inch_Dia_Circle)
N0110 (Operation: Inside Offset, 0, T2: 1/4" wall 65amp no thc)
N0120 (tool number: 2 Distance between Touch-offs: 0 Feedrate: 80)
N0130 (DTHC has been disabled in this tool)
N0140(Preset Volts: 127) (This code for use with Ether-Cut upgrade 10-15-14 or later)
N0150( Suggested Tip Size: 25 ) ( DTHC Delay: 1 sec )
N0160 ( Min Cut Length for DTHC ON : 6 units )
N0170 S999
N0180 (Global DTHC ON/OFF is OFF )
N0190 S3127 (Preset Volts set to 127 Volts)
N0200 S510 (DTHC Delay set to 1 Seconds)
N0210 S711 (DTHCIV tuning set to level 1)
N0220 S701 (Clear S Register)
N0230 G00 X3.0000 Y1.0132 Z2.6250 A0.0000
N0240 Z2.1500
N0250 M109
N0260 G00 Z2.1500
N0270 M03
N0280 G04 P0.5
N0290 G01 Z2.0600 F30.0
N0300 Y0.9132 F80.0
N0310 X2.8273 Y0.9285
N0320 X2.6601 Y0.9741
N0330 X2.5035 Y1.0484
N0340 X2.3624 Y1.1491
N0350 X2.2413 Y1.2732
N0360 X2.1440 Y1.4166
N0370 X2.0999 Y1.4958 F83.6406
N0380 Y1.4525 Z2.1060 A-0.0050 F234.0944
N0390 X2.0911 Y1.3902 Z2.1623 A-0.0113 F312.6077
N0400 X2.0823 Y1.3257 Z2.2161 A-0.0176
N0410 X2.0767 Y1.2553 Z2.2700 A-0.0242 F329.4315
N0420 X2.0711 Y1.1827 Z2.3210 A-0.0309
N0430 X2.0655 Y1.1081 Z2.3689 A-0.0375
N0440 X2.0599 Y1.0316 Z2.4136 A-0.0442
N0450 X2.0543 Y0.9532 Z2.4551 A-0.0508
N0460 X2.0487 Y0.8732 Z2.4933 A-0.0575
N0470 X2.0431 Y0.7916 Z2.5281 A-0.0641
N0480 X2.0376 Y0.7087 Z2.5594 A-0.0708
N0490 X2.0320 Y0.6245 Z2.5873 A-0.0774
N0500 X2.0306 Y0.5363 Z2.6124 A-0.0843 F339.6695
N0510 X2.0292 Y0.4471 Z2.6337 A-0.0912
N0520 X2.0278 Y0.3570 Z2.6511 A-0.0981
N0530 X2.0264 Y0.2662 Z2.6645 A-0.1050
N0540 X2.0250 Y0.1750 Z2.6741 A-0.1119
N0550 X2.0236 Y0.0835 Z2.6797 A-0.1187
N0560 X2.0222 Y-0.0083 Z2.6813 A-0.1256
N0570 X2.0208 Y-0.1000 Z2.6790 A-0.1325
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N0590 X2.0257 Y-0.2819 Z2.6625 A-0.1462
N0600 X2.0281 Y-0.3721 Z2.6484 A-0.1531
N0610 X2.0305 Y-0.4617 Z2.6305 A-0.1599
N0620 X2.0330 Y-0.5504 Z2.6087 A-0.1668
N0630 X2.0354 Y-0.6381 Z2.5831 A-0.1736
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N0650 X2.0403 Y-0.8097 Z2.5207 A-0.1873
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N0780 X2.3989 Y-1.1193
N0790 X2.5447 Y-1.0255
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N0820 X3.0471 Y-0.9143
N0830 X3.2189 Y-0.9380
N0840 X3.3837 Y-0.9915
N0850 X3.5366 Y-1.0733
N0860 X3.6726 Y-1.1807
N0870 X3.7876 Y-1.3104
N0880 X3.8779 Y-1.4584
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N0930 X3.9250 Y-1.2435 Z2.2787 A-0.2247
N0940 X3.9329 Y-1.1730 Z2.3275 A-0.2183
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N0960 X3.9421 Y-1.0195 Z2.4203 A-0.2048
N0970 X3.9466 Y-0.9400 Z2.4617 A-0.1981
N0980 X3.9512 Y-0.8587 Z2.4997 A-0.1913
N0990 X3.9558 Y-0.7760 Z2.5343 A-0.1846
N1000 X3.9604 Y-0.6918 Z2.5653 A-0.1779
N1010 X3.9649 Y-0.6064 Z2.5928 A-0.1711
N1020 X3.9695 Y-0.5199 Z2.6166 A-0.1644
N1030 X3.9741 Y-0.4325 Z2.6368 A-0.1577
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N1050 X3.9748 Y-0.2511 Z2.6664 A-0.1439
N1060 X3.9752 Y-0.1597 Z2.6753 A-0.1370
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N1150 X3.9631 Y0.6520 Z2.5786 A-0.0753
N1160 X3.9596 Y0.7378 Z2.5489 A-0.0685
N1170 X3.9561 Y0.8222 Z2.5155 A-0.0617
N1180 X3.9527 Y0.9050 Z2.4786 A-0.0548
N1190 X3.9492 Y0.9862 Z2.4381 A-0.0480
N1200 X3.9420 Y1.0622 Z2.3962 A-0.0415 F322.1775
N1210 X3.9348 Y1.1364 Z2.3513 A-0.0350
N1220 X3.9276 Y1.2086 Z2.3033 A-0.0285
N1230 X3.9205 Y1.2789 Z2.2525 A-0.0220
N1240 X3.9133 Y1.3470 Z2.1988 A-0.0155
N1250 X3.9061 Y1.4128 Z2.1424 A-0.0090
N1260 X3.8989 Y1.4763 Z2.0833 A-0.0025
N1270 X3.8917 Y1.4874 Z2.0600 A0.0000 F99.2991
N1280 X3.8063 Y1.3365 F80.0
N1290 X3.6956 Y1.2031
N1300 X3.5632 Y1.0913
N1310 s10
N1320 G02 X3.000 Y0.913 I-0.563 J0.801
N1330 G01 X3.0000 Y0.9632
N1340 M05
N1350 G04 P1
N1360 G00 Z2.6250
N1370 S900
N1380 S10 (DTHC is off)
N1390 S701 (Clear S Register)
N1400 G92 X0 A0
N1410 M05 M30
Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
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Diesel
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Re: Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

Post by Diesel »

Here is what I'd eventually like to be able to do.
Cut out the geometry in the tube to enable bending it and welding it.
4x4_tube_example.png
Solidworks has a sheetmetal option where you can flatten solid models.
It took me a while to figure out how to do this correctly.
4x4_tube_example_flat.png
Folks having issues with this should look closely at the following two tips:
1) Use a very thin wall on the tube/pipe in your solid model. This helps to eliminate goofy geometry at the bends that you can clearly see in the 3D model with a 1/4" wall thickness. This goofy geometry (though it isn't entirely goofy, Solidworks is just doing what its told) carries over to the flat pattern. The geometry wasn't that bad, but bad enough that I wanted to eliminate it.

2) The tube in the 3D model isn't actually a tube. There's a very fine slit a few thousandths wide at the apex of one of the radii and extrude cut the entire length of the tube. If you don't do this, Solidworks won't let you convert the solid model to sheetmetal and then flatten it.

Cheers,

Matt

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comeoutswingin
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Re: Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

Post by comeoutswingin »

You have my full attention with this. I have a rotary on my LDR too and I just don't use round tube so its worthless... If I could cut small sections of sq. on it I'd actually use it..
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Re: Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

Post by tcaudle »

You are mixing two different methods. To cut square tube and use the SheetCAM rotary plugin you have to use the another MACH profile because the rotary profile with the screen inputs for diameter pass the info to the POST via some variables that are missing. The square tube cutting in the MACH and its POST is for indexing (cutting four sides independently) not for a continuous cut. You HAVE to use the SheetCAM Rotary Plugin and the SheeCAM POST to match. Les plays some tricks in the POST and his plugin to make it do a 4 axis cut (SheetCAM is a three axis CAM program) Doing round is fine but a continuous cut square tube is a different animal.

You can break the job into 4 separate cuts on each face and do it with the MACH rotary Profile and the POST for MACH for square tube but its an indexing type cut with each one setting up and making a separate cut 90 degrees per turn
Diesel
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Re: Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

Post by Diesel »

Ah-ha! I knew it was a boneheaded newbie mistake!
Thanks for that info, Tom!

Looks like I have some more research to do.
I've never had to create or download a new Mach3 profile - time to do some looking around!

Thanks again!

Cheers,

Matt
Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
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Quincy 325 compressor
Ingersoll Rand D18IN refrigerated air dryer
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Re: Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

Post by Diesel »

OK, it's been 3 hours and 4 beers and I'm lost.
Can't seem to find information on how to setup a new Mach3 profile.

Beers,

Matt
Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
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matze-atze-sch
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Re: Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

Post by matze-atze-sch »

Maybe this help you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2fscbLNtGU

He is also here in the Forum, maybe he can help you...

Marcel
Diesel
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Re: Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

Post by Diesel »

Thanks, Marcel.

I've watched that video 3 or 4 times over the last week or so and it is still not apparent how he accomplished the Mach3 profile settings.

Cheers,

Matt
Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
Hypertherm Powermax85
Quincy 325 compressor
Ingersoll Rand D18IN refrigerated air dryer
Millermatic 251 MIG
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Re: Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

Post by pertneer »

Definitely a post processor issue like tClaude said.the code is doing exactly what it is supposed to.
Diesel wrote:Here you go. Thanks for looking at this!
I have a very basic understanding of G code. What's odd to me is that SheetCam's simulation shows everything perfectly.
(Note: DTHC will be turned on for this tool when I actually cut, I have it shut off for now to help eliminate variables.)

Cheers,

Matt


N0010 (Filename: FirstTest_Rotary_20161106_1.tap)
N0020 (Post processor: rotary and scribe addon.scpost)
N0030 (Date: 11/6/2016)
N0040 G20 (Units: Inches)
N0050 F1
N0060 G53 G90 G40
N0070 M116 P2.621
N0080 M115
N0090 G00 Z3.2463
N0100 (Part: Simple_Two_Inch_Dia_Circle)
N0110 (Operation: Inside Offset, 0, T2: 1/4" wall 65amp no thc)
N0120 (tool number: 2 Distance between Touch-offs: 0 Feedrate: 80)
N0130 (DTHC has been disabled in this tool)
N0140(Preset Volts: 127) (This code for use with Ether-Cut upgrade 10-15-14 or later)
N0150( Suggested Tip Size: 25 ) ( DTHC Delay: 1 sec )
N0160 ( Min Cut Length for DTHC ON : 6 units )
N0170 S999
N0180 (Global DTHC ON/OFF is OFF )
N0190 S3127 (Preset Volts set to 127 Volts)
N0200 S510 (DTHC Delay set to 1 Seconds)
N0210 S711 (DTHCIV tuning set to level 1)
N0220 S701 (Clear S Register)
N0230 G00 X3.0000 Y1.0132 Z2.6250 A0.0000
N0240 Z2.1500
N0250 M109
N0260 G00 Z2.1500
N0270 M03
N0280 G04 P0.5
N0290 G01 Z2.0600 F30.0
N0300 Y0.9132 F80.0
N0310 X2.8273 Y0.9285
N0320 X2.6601 Y0.9741
N0330 X2.5035 Y1.0484
N0340 X2.3624 Y1.1491
N0350 X2.2413 Y1.2732
N0360 X2.1440 Y1.4166
N0370 X2.0999 Y1.4958 F83.6406
N0380 Y1.4525 Z2.1060 A-0.0050 F234.0944
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N0430 X2.0655 Y1.1081 Z2.3689 A-0.0375
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N0590 X2.0257 Y-0.2819 Z2.6625 A-0.1462
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N0610 X2.0305 Y-0.4617 Z2.6305 A-0.1599
N0620 X2.0330 Y-0.5504 Z2.6087 A-0.1668
N0630 X2.0354 Y-0.6381 Z2.5831 A-0.1736
N0640 X2.0378 Y-0.7246 Z2.5537 A-0.1805
N0650 X2.0403 Y-0.8097 Z2.5207 A-0.1873
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N0830 X3.2189 Y-0.9380
N0840 X3.3837 Y-0.9915
N0850 X3.5366 Y-1.0733
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N0870 X3.7876 Y-1.3104
N0880 X3.8779 Y-1.4584
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N0900 Y-1.4421 Z2.1158 A-0.2440 F294.3558
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N0940 X3.9329 Y-1.1730 Z2.3275 A-0.2183
N0950 X3.9375 Y-1.0973 Z2.3755 A-0.2115 F333.0629
N0960 X3.9421 Y-1.0195 Z2.4203 A-0.2048
N0970 X3.9466 Y-0.9400 Z2.4617 A-0.1981
N0980 X3.9512 Y-0.8587 Z2.4997 A-0.1913
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N1030 X3.9741 Y-0.4325 Z2.6368 A-0.1577
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N1110 X3.9769 Y0.2988 Z2.6602 A-0.1025
N1120 X3.9735 Y0.3883 Z2.6455 A-0.0957 F336.1926
N1130 X3.9700 Y0.4772 Z2.6270 A-0.0889
N1140 X3.9665 Y0.5651 Z2.6047 A-0.0821
N1150 X3.9631 Y0.6520 Z2.5786 A-0.0753
N1160 X3.9596 Y0.7378 Z2.5489 A-0.0685
N1170 X3.9561 Y0.8222 Z2.5155 A-0.0617
N1180 X3.9527 Y0.9050 Z2.4786 A-0.0548
N1190 X3.9492 Y0.9862 Z2.4381 A-0.0480
N1200 X3.9420 Y1.0622 Z2.3962 A-0.0415 F322.1775
N1210 X3.9348 Y1.1364 Z2.3513 A-0.0350
N1220 X3.9276 Y1.2086 Z2.3033 A-0.0285
N1230 X3.9205 Y1.2789 Z2.2525 A-0.0220
N1240 X3.9133 Y1.3470 Z2.1988 A-0.0155
N1250 X3.9061 Y1.4128 Z2.1424 A-0.0090
N1260 X3.8989 Y1.4763 Z2.0833 A-0.0025
N1270 X3.8917 Y1.4874 Z2.0600 A0.0000 F99.2991
N1280 X3.8063 Y1.3365 F80.0
N1290 X3.6956 Y1.2031
N1300 X3.5632 Y1.0913
N1310 s10
N1320 G02 X3.000 Y0.913 I-0.563 J0.801
N1330 G01 X3.0000 Y0.9632
N1340 M05
N1350 G04 P1
N1360 G00 Z2.6250
N1370 S900
N1380 S10 (DTHC is off)
N1390 S701 (Clear S Register)
N1400 G92 X0 A0
N1410 M05 M30
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_Ogre
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Re: Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

Post by _Ogre »

bulltear 4x8 cnc plasma table, candcnc bladerunner w/dthc, hypertherm powermax 65, sheetcam, mach3
laser cross hair for hypertherm torch http://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12508
an ogre smiley :mrgreen: how cool!
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Re: Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

Post by Diesel »

pertneer wrote:Definitely a post processor issue like tClaude said.the code is doing exactly what it is supposed to.
OK - so can I just edit my rotary post for round and it will then work for round and square/rectangular?
I was under the impression that I needed a new plugin specifically for square/rectangular - but it would appear to be all the same.
Screenshot from: http://www.sheetcam.com/Register/purchase
SheetCam_RotaryPipe.jpg
_Ogre wrote:try this video
Thanks - I've watched that about a half dozen times in the past.
I made the assumption that the post variables were already setup since I've cut round tube.
Now I will need to go have a look.
tcaudle wrote:To cut square tube and use the SheetCAM rotary plugin you have to use the another MACH profile because the rotary profile with the screen inputs for diameter pass the info to the POST via some variables that are missing.
How does one create a new Mach3 profile?
I've done some searching and can't find what I'm looking for.

Thanks as always, Gents!

Cheers,

Matt

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Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
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Re: Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

Post by Diesel »

After re-watching Les' video (thanks for pounding that into my head, _Ogre!), I checked my rotary post and found some issues that I've highlighted in red below. These lines were missing from my post when compared to Les' video suggestions so I added them.

function OnArc()
local radius = math.hypot(currentX - arcCentreX, currentY - arcCentreY)
dist = dist + radius * math.abs(arcAngle)
if(arcAngle <0) then
post.ModalText (" G03")
else
post.ModalText (" G02")
end
post.ModalNumber (" X", (endX + offX) * scale, "0.0000")
post.ModalNumber (" Y", (endY + offY) * scale, "0.0000")
if(offZ) then
post.ModalNumber (" " .. currentZAxis, (endZ + offZ) * scale, "0.0000")
end

post.Text (" I")
post.Number ((arcCentreX - currentX) * scale, "0.0000")
post.Text (" J")
post.Number ((arcCentreY - currentY) * scale, "0.0000")
post.ModalNumber (" " .. rotaryAxis, endA, "0.0000")
post.ModalNumber (" F", feedRate* scale, "0.0###")
post.Eol()
end -- end function

Now I'm going to try my modified post and see what happens.

Thanks, Gents!

Cheers,

Matt
Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
Hypertherm Powermax85
Quincy 325 compressor
Ingersoll Rand D18IN refrigerated air dryer
Millermatic 251 MIG
Everlast PowerPro 256 TIG/stick/plasma w/ water cooler
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Re: Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

Post by Diesel »

OK - so none of that post editing helped...it only hurt.
Now the torch dives into the tube after the Z touches off.
It doesn't retract to pierce height like it usually does.
Son of a!
Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
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Quincy 325 compressor
Ingersoll Rand D18IN refrigerated air dryer
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Re: Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

Post by pertneer »

Keep in mind that the rotaryplasma post also imports a "Helper" file from the plugins directory. So that edit may not be the only one needed.
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Re: Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

Post by Diesel »

pertneer wrote:Keep in mind that the rotaryplasma post also imports a "Helper" file from the plugins directory. So that edit may not be the only one needed.
Wow...OK, I've seen no mention of that anywhere I've looked.
I will keep plugging away - thanks!

Cheers,

Matt
Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
Hypertherm Powermax85
Quincy 325 compressor
Ingersoll Rand D18IN refrigerated air dryer
Millermatic 251 MIG
Everlast PowerPro 256 TIG/stick/plasma w/ water cooler
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Re: Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

Post by Diesel »

I got in touch with Dan at LDR.
He is going to help me out with an entirely different post processor that will work with square and rectangular tube.

Cheers,

Matt
Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
Hypertherm Powermax85
Quincy 325 compressor
Ingersoll Rand D18IN refrigerated air dryer
Millermatic 251 MIG
Everlast PowerPro 256 TIG/stick/plasma w/ water cooler
Diesel
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Re: Square Tube + Rotary: Help Needed

Post by Diesel »

Dan at LDR got back to me the next morning with a new post processor.
I was finally able to try it out yesterday afternoon.

It helped with my originally reported issue in that it didn't cause the torch to dive into the workpiece but it also would retract the Z about 2.5" after touching off. Damn.
That drove me nuts trying to figure that out.

For grins I substituted the original rotary post that shipped with my table.
That post followed the contour of the tube quite nicely in all of the motion tests I completed...so I decided to try a test cut with DTHC active.

Man, did it ever raise the torch up during the run...it looked like it was about an inch above the tube at times. (Note: I didn't measure the cut height, but there is no doubt that it was quite high...much higher than I've ever seen it cut and much higher than I thought was possible for air plasma.)

Here's a test cut in 4" square tube (1/4" wall) at 65A.
I have some tweaks to make - no doubt about that.
RotaryTest_4x4-SquareTube.jpg
Thanks for your help!

Cheers,

Matt

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Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
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Quincy 325 compressor
Ingersoll Rand D18IN refrigerated air dryer
Millermatic 251 MIG
Everlast PowerPro 256 TIG/stick/plasma w/ water cooler
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