aftermarket torch height control

[extranwp]

i have a hypertherm powermax 45 and go torch 2+2 table was wondering if i add a proma thc will it work with design edge basic basic software with no thc or should i use mach3 and if so do i need any specical parts to make it work. thanks

[acourtjester]

If you use Mach 3 you need to tell mach the input pins for the THC signals (up, Down, and torch on) and then click on the THC button on the pront page for it to work. It holps to have a floating head switch assembly too.

[jimcolt]

I am sure you could make the Proma THC work on the GoTorch....although you would have to ad a limit switch to the z axis assembly to sense the plate surface....you also would have to change the z axis drive motor to one that was compatible with the Proma up down output relays.

In reality.....upgrading the Go Torch to the advanced Design Edge and advanced THC would give you a far better performing height control with ohmic plate sensing and it would be totally integrated into the motion control which auto sets the arc voltage/height before every cut (compensating for consumable wear, speed changes). It also atomaticall freezes the height during corne slowdowns and small features as well as on smaller diameter holes....the Proma would dive the torch into the plate with no link to the speed.

Adding the capability to the GoTorch is around $3k....worth every penny. (I have one)


Jim Colt

i have a hypertherm powermax 45 and go torch 2+2 table was wondering if i add a proma thc will it work with design edge basic basic software with no thc or should i use mach3 and if so do i need any specical parts to make it work. thanks

[jimcolt]

The Go Torch uses PlasmaCam software....not Mach 3.

Jim Colt

If you use Mach 3 you need to tell mach the input pins for the THC signals (up, Down, and torch on) and then click on the THC button on the pront page for it to work. It holps to have a floating head switch assembly too.

[extranwp]

3000 way out of my budget, so my controller on my gotorch can't be operated by any other software but design edge. Was looking at mach3 it's only 175 for a license and the promathc is 300

[jimcolt]

The motion control part of the software on your GoTorch is from PlasmaCam. It has to do complex math algorythms' in order to accurately control x and y motion, it monitors real time position regarding torch location, it also determine start and stop signals for the plasma and height control as well as controlling when the height should freeze. This software comes standard and embedded in all PlasmaCam software. It is advanced in its capability and works flawlessly in my opinion....I see no reason to attempt to change it to some other software.

The GoTorch comes with this software and a post processing software that will accept a .dxf file from most CAD drawing software. You can download free CAD software, draw your parts and import the .dxf file into the GoTorch....and cut parts.

If you want CAD drawing as part of the Design Edge there is an upgrade. Their CAD upgrade is the easiest to learn and use that I have found....and rivals softwares that cost in the $1500 to $2500 range. If you want Auto Height control on the GoTorch it is an upgrade....it is one of the best entry level height controls that I have used, and I have used a lot. Remember that a height control requires a z axis lifter, electronics, and to work flawlessly it has to communicate real time with the x and y motion controller. If it doesn't....there will be incorrect height, plate collisions and poor cut quality and short consumable life.

Mach 3 is a universal motion control software. It does not do height control and does not have a CAD drawing capability. It provides motion control and has the ability to support plasma and height control systems. It is a well respected software package and is widely used on a variety of machines, however it need the correct electronics and drives to make it operate an x-y cutting machine. You could put it on a go torch, however you would need new drives, new motors new wiring and cables to do so. If you wanted to use Mach3 you should have purchased a machine that was designed for Mach 3.

Height control is critical for plasma cutting.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

3000 way out of my budget, so my controller on my gotorch can't be operated by any other software but design edge. Was looking at mach3 it's only 175 for a license and the promathc is 300

[Metriccar]

Did you contact GoTorch to see if you can get basic height control for $999?
By the time you switch your GoTorch to a Mach3 that can run it you will probably have more spent on it for an inferior product. Actually I'm not sure that basic height control can handle material warping or anything else during the middle of the cut. Reading information online I get conflicting information. I believe the arc voltage shift field is what determines cut height and you type it in manually with Basic, whereas Advanced, it's calculated automatically. Since Go-Torch does not offer phone support, you'll have to email. I have found in the past (as a Plasmacam owner) that I do tend to get better answers when I call. I have heard from several people now on the internet who are critical of their sales practices and now I totally understand. To buy a bottom of the line Go-Torch or PlasmaCam would be a lot like buying a 1910 Model T. Want to be able to drive it on the freeway? You're looking at $1000 upgrades. But after you have these upgrades it's hard to find a better machine in this price range.

[acourtjester]

I?m sorry but I disagree with your representation of Mach 3 it may not have sections in the software that others do for CAM or THC. But it will do THC very well I have used it on my tables and it is much simpler to set up. Mach takes signals from the Proma (up/down, and torch on) and moves the torch to follow the metal?s surface. It does not need any extra electronics and only needs 4 small wires for the signal connections. They do have post processing for different THC systems also. After hooking up the Proma?s signals I just turn on the software switch on the from page of Mach and it will control the Z axis by following the signals from the THC.
I am using a Hypertherm PM65 on my DIY table with the Proma THC in this video and on another table I am using another Plasma unit and the Proma.
Here I am cutting a 3D butterfly with 68 cut actions that took 19 minutes in 14 ga steel.
I used the cut chart from Hypertherm for my voltage setting and it came out great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ntjGi- ... wq0KTKpuRw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoXIRMLx8Sg

Have fun
Tom

[jimcolt]

mach three has the buttons and the drive outputs to support height control....but it does not do height control. You can interface a height control (like the Proma) to mach 3....which allows you to semi control it from the mach 3 screens. So...you need Mach 3, you need the Proma unit, you need a z axis lifter (which is on the go torch), you need to modify the lifter with a limit switch (to make it a floating head plate sensor) and you will need to change the motor on the Go Torch z axis to one that is compatible with the mach and you will need a motor driver. I'm willing to bet that after all that is done and you calculate your wiring and time....that you will have almost the same amount of money in adding this aftermarket height control...as you would with upgrading the GoTorch to their height control.

And....you would not have the proma interfaced to the cnc....it would not auto freeze the height during slowdowns (diving would be the result), it would not auto calibrate the height control before every cut (Plasma Cam does ohmic plate sensing which auto sets the voltage, effectively compensating for consumable wear).

The poster was asking if an aftermarket height control could be added to GoTorch. Yes it can, but it would cost (ultimately) similarly to upgrading to the plasmacam height control...and would not have features that worked as well.

I think the Proma would be a good low cost upgrade on a Mach 3 based machine (that did not already have height control) but it does not seem like the best solution for a go torch machine to me.....I guess that is my opinion though! I know how well the PlasmaCam height control works....it is trouble free with no voltage settings necessary, no guesswork!

Jim Colt

I?m sorry but I disagree with your representation of Mach 3 it may not have sections in the software that others do for CAM or THC. But it will do THC very well I have used it on my tables and it is much simpler to set up. Mach takes signals from the Proma (up/down, and torch on) and moves the torch to follow the metal?s surface. It does not need any extra electronics and only needs 4 small wires for the signal connections. They do have post processing for different THC systems also. After hooking up the Proma?s signals I just turn on the software switch on the from page of Mach and it will control the Z axis by following the signals from the THC.
I am using a Hypertherm PM65 on my DIY table with the Proma THC in this video and on another table I am using another Plasma unit and the Proma.
Here I am cutting a 3D butterfly with 68 cut actions that took 19 minutes in 14 ga steel.
I used the cut chart from Hypertherm for my voltage setting and it came out great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ntjGi- ... wq0KTKpuRw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoXIRMLx8Sg

Have fun
Tom

[extranwp]

ok guys thanks for the input. gotorch if your watching the forums a subscription service for your upgrades would be nice,just saying from a poor boys view. God Bless Texas

[vmax549]

Just as a reference MACH3 CAN freeze the torch height on corner slowdown. It can also control z height correction speed. It can also run ANY Z axis drive that is step and direction controlled.

Just a thought, (;-) TP

[jimcolt]

A torch height control system.....as originally designed in 1975 for plasma cutting consists of:

1. a means for finding the surface (before firing the plasma torch) of the material to be cut.
2. A means for retracting to the plasma torch manufacturers pierce height (before firing the plasma torch).
3. Torch fires...usually as an output from the torch height control that fires the torch after steps 1 and 2 are complete)
4. When an arc transfer signal is received from the plasma cutter (indicating that current is flowing on the work return path) a pierce timer is activated. This time delay (amount of time suggested by the plasma torch manufacturer) allows for full piercing of the plate before any x, y or z movement occurs).
5. After completion of pierce timer, z axis indexes down to a physical cut height (suggested by the plasma torch manufacturer), and x - y motion begins for the cut profile.
6. Once the machine achieves the programmed x - y cut speed, the height control starts monitoring the DC arc voltage (as measured between the plasma torch negative electrode and the positive work cable) and compares the actual arc voltage to a preset arc voltage (as suggested by the plasma torch manufacturer for the material and thickness being cut), then the height control adjusts the z axis so that actual arc voltage and preset arc voltage are essentially the same. If actual voltage is too low...the z axis indexes up until the voltage matches the preset.


Note: There are some Torch height control systems on the market that perform all 6 steps listed above. Other height control systems only do step 6....and rely on limit switches, the z axis design and a software like Mach 3 to ensure steps 1-6 are done before step 6 occurs. Mach 3....to my knowledge, does not have the ability by itself to monitor the DC arc volatage....and to compare it to a preset voltage in order to control real time torch to work distance while cutting with a plasma torch. The torch height controls from CandCNC.com and Proma include the electronics and comparator circuit that can monitor arc voltage and control height....after pierce height and cut height phases listed above have been completed.

Further....in order for arc voltage height control to maintain constant physical torch to work distance (critical to consistent cut quality with any plasma torch) the cnc control has to communicate with the arc voltage control to disable (freeze) height corrections when ever the x - y speed gets approximately 10 to 20% below the (torch manufacturers recommended) cut speed......otherwise the arc voltage feedback will increase causing the height control to dive the torch closer to the plate, ultimately affecting cut quality and causing plate collisions. This happens in corners, in fine features and in kerf crossing...or anywhere that the x -y motion has to slow in order to remain on path.

So, Mach cannot do height control....it needs to work with height control electronics in order to control real time torch to work distance. The latest technology height controls from CandCNC.com use Mach3 to preset the parameters required by the height control, but uses an Ethernet based communication with the machine PC to improve the speed of communication between PC and height control corrections....making the system work much more accurately.

The result is better cut quality and longer plasma torch consumable life.


Jim Colt Hypertherm

[DXF]

Is there a THC that will work with an older Plasma Cam?

Dave Hanks

[IndustrialRec]

I?m sorry but I disagree with your representation of Mach 3 it may not have sections in the software that others do for CAM or THC. But it will do THC very well I have used it on my tables and it is much simpler to set up. Mach takes signals from the Proma (up/down, and torch on) and moves the torch to follow the metal?s surface. It does not need any extra electronics and only needs 4 small wires for the signal connections. They do have post processing for different THC systems also. After hooking up the Proma?s signals I just turn on the software switch on the from page of Mach and it will control the Z axis by following the signals from the THC.
I am using a Hypertherm PM65 on my DIY table with the Proma THC in this video and on another table I am using another Plasma unit and the Proma.
Here I am cutting a 3D butterfly with 68 cut actions that took 19 minutes in 14 ga steel.
I used the cut chart from Hypertherm for my voltage setting and it came out great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ntjGi- ... wq0KTKpuRw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoXIRMLx8Sg

Have fun
Tom

Hey Tom, been going through the endless amounts of posts on Proma while trying to get our machine up and running. I noticed that your setup sounds very similar to what we seem to be having difficulties with. We're running PM85 with CPC port to Proma to our 5 axis board. We've tried every configuration of wiring and port & pins but CANNOT get it to communicate with Mach3 in Promas test mode. No blinking LEDs on the diagnostics page. Could you possibly share some tips and or your wiring schematic that got yours to work? Thanks in advance!

[acourtjester]

Here are some thing to check DO NOT HAVE THE POWER INPUT NEGATIVE ON THE PROMA ATTACHED TO THE SIGNAL GROUND TERMINAL.
Next just have power to the Proma and run the test function by pushing the arrow buttons both at the same time until it shows TST on the display and release the buttons. You should see the arc OK on and the up/down leds flash. If that works then you can attach the ground to the BOB ground and the arc ok wire to BOB input pin 11. run the test again and see if the arc OK lights on the diagnostic page. Test the up and down signals to pins 12 and 13 and see if they toggle the light on the diagnostic page.
You may have a bad Proma.

pin selection.jpg

proma.jpg

[IndustrialRec]

Here are some thing to check DO NOT HAVE THE POWER INPUT NEGATIVE ON THE PROMA ATTACHED TO THE SIGNAL GROUND TERMINAL.
Next just have power to the Proma and run the test function by pushing the arrow buttons both at the same time until it shows TST on the display and release the buttons. You should see the arc OK on and the up/down leds flash. If that works then you can attach the ground to the BOB ground and the arc ok wire to BOB input pin 11. run the test again and see if the arc OK lights on the diagnostic page. Test the up and down signals to pins 12 and 13 and see if they toggle the light on the diagnostic page.
You may have a bad Proma.

pin selection.jpg

proma.jpg

Thanks for the quick response! Our Proma definitely works in test mode by itself, but will try your tests out in a minute here. I noticed that in your pin settings you don't have your "Active Low" checked. If mine are not checked it sends a constant signal that will actually move my Z axis and will not let me reset. Any reason why you don't have those checked?

[acourtjester]

The output signals from the Proma should be a normally open and close when it triggers each signal (light on at the Proma).
I would hook an ohm meter across the ground and to each output signal pin and run the test. These are relay outputs from the Proma if no change the relays are not working.

[IndustrialRec]

The output signals from the Proma should be a normally open and close when it triggers each signal (light on at the Proma).
I would hook an ohm meter across the ground and to each output signal pin and run the test. These are relay outputs from the Proma if no change the relays are not working.

I tested the Proma for continuity during test phase and the signal correctly travels to my breakout board at pins 11,12,13 for Arc, Up, Down. But this information is not being transmitted to my diagnostics page in Mach3. I have my settings matching that in Ports and Pins. Any more thoughts? Thanks again for all of your help on this. Seems like I'm missing something simple.

[tcaudle]

Find the input common on the BoB and short between common and the inputs defined as 11 12 and 13 to make sure you have the inputs and the port defined correctly. Some noards have input LED/s that show when an input goes active, other wise you have to use the jumper method. You may also find the inputs need a voltage source. To go active when you take them to common . If you cannot make a simple NO switch work on an input the Promo won't either because it just small NO relay contacts

You do need to define what is "Common" for the Inputs. It may or may not be the PC side logic ground. The common on the Promo has to be the same as the common on the inputs

[IndustrialRec]

Find the input common on the BoB and short between common and the inputs defined as 11 12 and 13 to make sure you have the inputs and the port defined correctly. Some noards have input LED/s that show when an input goes active, other wise you have to use the jumper method. You may also find the inputs need a voltage source. To go active when you take them to common . If you cannot make a simple NO switch work on an input the Promo won't either because it just small NO relay contacts

You do need to define what is "Common" for the Inputs. It may or may not be the PC side logic ground. The common on the Promo has to be the same as the common on the inputs

Thanks again to everyone for their help so far but still no success... I have attached a rough schematic of what we have running where and a couple pictures of our Mach3 settings to assist in possibly finding a remedy to this. If you have any questions or suggestions feel free to post them. Thanks in advance!

PromaWiring.jpg

Proma1.jpg

Proma2.jpg

[acourtjester]

It has been a long time since I used a Proma but I seem to remember that you need to have this box enabled on the program page.

THC front panel.jpg

[IndustrialRec]

It has been a long time since I used a Proma but I seem to remember that you need to have this box enabled on the program page.

THC front panel.jpg

Thanks, already got that one.

[IndustrialRec]

We got it to communicate! It all comes back to this BoB. This link is what saved us. Thanks again for all your help on this guys!

https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index ... 53.10.html