How to profit in this business? Please Help!

[elkriverfab]

Hi,

I just wanted to start a discussion on turning this from a hobby to actually running it as a business.

I am now wanting to start using my equipment and skills to turn this into a full time job.
I have been doing this for several years now. I have thousands of hours in designs, products and not to mention equipment.

My question to anyone out there is: What is the best course of action towards starting to turn this expensive hobby into a money making business?

I already have three active web sites displaying my abilities and products.

My question is, what is the best way to advertise this kind of business?
So many people out there know nothing of plasma cutting or what someone in this business is capible of doing.

Does anyone have experience in craft shows and events? My wife is trying to get me heavily involved in local events and shows. Do these work?

I have found out that you must offer more than just art work, using your equipment to make products or custom art pieces is the way to go. I also found that ebay is a waist of time and selling your items on ebay at ebay prices is really bad for this type of business and anyone doing it.

If anyone has any info that would help in this area, I would appreciate it and I am sure others would too.

I have found this web site to be very informative and the people to be very inelegant and professional. Out of all the other forum sites out there, this one seems to have some very smart and informed people.

I hope that someone out there who has found themselves at this point, wanting to move from hobby to a productive business will help us all with some good info or ideas.

Thanks,
elkriverfab!

[peepers]

HI
I am in the same boat as you it seems. I have been plasma cutting for a couple of years now and need to start making it support it's self. I have been doing mostly art stuff and custom street signs, memorial markers, etc. One thing that worked for me was a catalog that I gave to a couple of people to pass around at their work place. I got lots of orders from that. I need to update the catalog and pass them around again. I also post on craigslist in near by cities and have picked up custom work from those adds.
A few months ago I tried an arts and craft show. That is a whole world of its own. Most of the vendors at the larger shows travel around from show to show and have it down very well. They are also very helpful with information on starting the craft show tour. The one I attended was sponsored by the Jaycees in a nearby city. It was the most unorganized thing I have every been a part of. They did nothing they said they would or followed any of the rules stated in the contract. It was supposed to be and arts and crafts show only.with all items being hand made. That was not the case. I ended up having to compete with all the Chinese junk metal work selling for a couple of dollars. Despite that I still managed to cover my $150.00 booth fee and carry home around $500.00 profit for 3 days work and it was work.
Since that first show I was in no hurry to try it again but gave in and tried another. It was great, the location the management and the people made me want to do it again. This show was out doors in a park by the lake, we had a very large turnout of around 15000. Sales were good for all. It was arts and crafts only that had to be hand made. I went home happy.
Now that I have my own booth/canopy display setup most of the shows are booked. They book months in advance and require
booth fee's that are non refundable. Fee's can range from around $50.00 to $1000.00 or more depending on the location and projected turnout.
The next one I will attend is in December and is a juried show which requires you submit photo's of your art along with photo's of your booth/display. From what I am told by the regulars the juried events are very good for sales. I guess I will find out.
I didn't mean to write a book. Just sharing what I know abut the arts and crafts world. I hope that this will help out a bit. If you search arts and crafts shows on Google you will find lots of links to show promoters sites with all the information needed.

[weldguy]

Good thread to start.

I originally bought my plasma table to burn parts out for exhaust products that I was currently manufacturing and that allowed me to keep that work in house and paid for the machine. Years later the Chinese began prducing similar products and I was forced to pack it in, they were retailing similar looking products for less than could build them for.

After that I tried my hand at plasma cut art and learned that in order to make enough money to make it worth while you had to give it all you had and travel too all the different shows. Some would pay off, some wouldn't, always a gamble with your time and money, plus I was never around on weekends for my kids. Maybe if I took it more seriously I would have had better results but I didn't even really like doing the art stuff.

To make a long story even longer, I beleive that you CAN make money doing the art and shows but it's going to be hard work and you have to make sure it's what you want to do.

I ended up marketing my fabrication services to local resturants, bars, designers, etc. and it has worked out well because although there are others doing fab work locally, none of them had the ability to really personalize the fabrications with metal cut images, names, designs, etc. I was all of sudden producing some of the coolest and most unique stuff around and everyone wanted it. The best part is that business owners often belong to a network of other owners in similar fields and word spreads fast with this type of thing and they tend to compete with one another for style and deisgn.

Anyway, that's all I got.

Weldguy

[Scratch]

I bought mine with hopes to do this part time and supplement my income since my "full time" job allwos me to get home around noon each day, and I wanted to fill those hours with a part time business. I started making beadlocks for Off road vehicles and the occasional shock or link tab. Then I started making signs and stuff and selling them at my wifes hair salon which has allowed my work to get around to all of their families and friends also. Then I got hooked up with a couple designers. Some design for rich people, some design for model homes, some do design work for remodeled homes. I found there's big money in that and I loved the larger very creative work that I got to put out. Unfortunately... with the economy, that work is slowly dieing out...

I also do the occasional craft show which I'm not very fond of but it pays the bills. I don't do too many of the "sit in the park" shows because I don't have the time to sit there all weekend, but instead I do the shows that are put on by "crafty women" (mostly) who set up a craft/art show in their home, yard or garage. I price my items, deliver them, and pick them up along with my check after the show is over. These girls advertise and put up signs and get quite alot of customers. Unfortunately... the preferred price point for most of the customers is right around 15 bucks so it's sometimes hard to sell alot of larger stuff. I still end up making a profit of between 300-900 usually for most shows though and I'm ok with that since I don't waste my time working the show.

One thing I HATE about these "crafty women" shows is that they mix "everything" together! They have a big room with tables all over and they put my metalwork next to the wooden snoman, next to the frilly scarf, behind the purple broach. Everything gets lost in the mix and I swear I saw Waldo in there one time but lost him soon after.
On some shows, I set up my own display and I set everything up together and my sales are much better.

There's my .02...

[DISCONNECTED]

One thing I have learned the more capabilities and skills you have the better off you will be.You need to be able to weld,have a good horizontal bandsaw and a host of other tools.I probably have about $100,000 in equipment not including the price of my shop.Luckily I am an auto mechanic full time and make ok money.To me just making money trying do plasma cutting only is a tough gig.It has been kinda tough for me to equal the money I make as a mechanic,but I am getting closer every year.

[ce offroad]

Wow! all of you (and me) have similar story's.The thing that I have learned is I suck at marketing!!! I am a skilled craftsmen,I can build anything but the one thing I fail at every-time is marketing products and services. Once I get them in the door my work will sell itself but that is where my problem is...getting them here.
I am still looking for the right person or company that can do that for me. The only reason I am still in business is because of word of mouth and your friends but the problem with that is they send everything that they know you can do but not enough of the things that are a money making repeatable gig.

[jim]

Hey guys
Here is my two cents worth. Hope it helps. I have been in business 5 years and been lucky to be successful and keep two employees working. What seemed to help us was a wholesale show. Unfortunately they are expensive to go in but a 10x10 booth would be lots as you only need one piece each of your art. The show is only open to retails stores looking to carry your product in their stores. The downside is you have to wholesale your prduct and allow the stores to put a 100% markup on it. But the up side is you don't have to put money out for craft shows...you just stay in the shop and put your product out and add shipping. Our first show was in Toronto as we are in Ontario. That one show we came home with 60 stores that wanted to carry our product. I do about four craft type shows a year to help the cash flow. I try to go to the higher end local home and garden shows which draws a better market. You have to come up with a comfortable price for your product so that you are making money and allows the store to mark it up. Wholesale seems to be working for us. Hope this helps
Jim Dawe
Murals in Metal

[TammyVB]

Hi - I have been doing art and craft shows and similar events off and on for about 10 years. I have also traveled around with a cargo trailer and sold roadside. I sold chainsaw carvings back when they were hot and also woodcrafts that I made, but I would rather do metal art---higher profit margin, less time to make.

As far as the metal art, I sold it for awhile on eBay about 4 year ago. I will be doing my first art and craft show the first weekend in December with the metal art---will let you know what moves. I will be selling weathervanes (more home decor style than what you would put outside), yard art - different shapes welded to round stock, wine racks, jewelry stands, candle sticks and holders, wine bottle stakes, magnet boards with matching magnets, stocking holders for Christmas.

I have been to many craft shows and other events over the years, both as a vendor and as a customer. Yard art is one of the few items that I have observed consistently sell well. Foo-foo stuff, girlie stuff is what I am going to focus on. (Your customer base at the craft shows is mostly women.) I have noticed items that are related to the next upcoming holiday season sell well, too. These shows are a good place to get custom orders for signs, etc. too. But I think it's better to have plenty of inventory for people to buy from on the spot---I have heard that you should have at least 3 times as much inventory than you expect to sell.

I also have several retail stores that I will be selling wholesale to. I am also thinking about using a manufacturer representative once I get my product line more organized.

One thing I noticed over the years is that doing roadside selling is way better money than craft shows and events. That was my experience with the chainsaw carvings, anyway. We did it for a few years around Montana and Wyoming---mostly during the summer. I enjoyed doing the roadside more. It's always nice to have a way to go make some extra money if you need it.

Had a couple of guys who build hot rods offer me a job but that's not quite my thing---probably more money in that kind of stuff, though.

Tammy

[DARRYL21270]

Hi jim,
I'm seriously thinking about going the wholesale route on some of my smaller items that I usually sell for around $30 each. What would be a good wholesale price to pitch and do you have minimum quantities when you get stores to purchase from you.I figure I can do $10 wholesale on a $30 piece with a minimum order of 100 does that sound good or is that too high? Any input would be appreciated.

[srp]

Pithcing in my 2 cents worth about creating a business involving plasma cut items or for that matter or any business in this arena. I have been in the metal fab business since 1972 and have been through all the ups and downs and like the energizer bunny and still kicking. My best advice is to create your own style -Be Unique- If all you do is copy something everybody else does you will never set yourself apart from the others metal products out there. Through the years we have noticed those who have illegally copied our designs are now no longer in business. With no original thought they have no innovative ideas. This can be a great business and even the smallest of companies can have a national impact . Go for it and Good Luck!

[AnotherDano]

Thread resurrection;

I have a product that I've priced at $40.00. I've placed that item (Pepper roaster with a trademarked logo) in a local cooking-ware store with an exclusive guarantee. The owner is local and it's a small town. Part of my business plan is to capitalize on the small-town attitude that exists here. If a store manager has to clear any decision with 'corporate', I won't fool with them at all.

By offering a store an exclusive item, there is no worry about price competition or wondering about the 'deal' the other guy got. It's clean, simple, honest and a big plus for both the store owner and me. My products will be known as being produced by me locally and if you see one, that's where you can buy it - the only place.

This is just for specific items that are store-themed. I ask the stores what they think will sell in their store. I do NOT try to push what I want to make on them. When they come up with something, we give it a try. If it works, I offer then a 30% discount for small quantities; like 5-8 for a $30-$40 item. They seem happy with that.

There are some, however, who try to treat me like their Mexican or Chinese suppliers, only worse. One lady wants a 50% discount for one item at a time, as they sell. And she wants a replacement NOW. Idon't do business with her anymore.

Sorry for the rant - I've got to have a talk with her in the morning and tell her that I get more from another store, which sold four to her one.

Anyway, if you place an item on consignment, what cut are you used to paying?
What are fair wholesale discounts in your area?

[elkriverfab]

It's been a while since I had anyone comment on this thread!

Always looking to discuss this topic.

First off, I would stay away from the one who wants a 50% discount.
She is putting you in the same category as the Chinese and Mexican imports.

I am always faced with people wanting me to put a huge discount on some of the stuff I make.

The roaster in fact is one of them.

They wanted me to make them out of stainless steel and give them a 10.00 price (each), I know they were marking them up!

I am close to Mexico and they have a hard time paying for ANYTHING!

For one thing, a 4 X 8 sheet of 16 gauge steel cost me 350.00 here in Texas.

I can get 16 roasters out of a 4 X 8 sheet.

That's $160.00 for 16 roasters. Materials cost me $350.00 not to mention labor and consumables.

Sometimes you have to just move on!!!!!!

Even if I sold them at events for 25.00 each, I still lose.

Weather you get files from this site (we all share).... or draw your own, your work is custom and your time is money.

When I first wrote that post, I was trying too hard in the wrong areas and selling myself way to short looking for jobs.

I sat down with myself and said "This equipment cost me money,the tools, the time learning, finishing and so on".

I started to advertise CUSTOM CUSTOM CUSTOM work. Guess what? There are people who want it and you better deliver in some form or another.

I had to forget what I thought I knew and learn what I didn't (REALITY).

Every file shared on this site helps.... Take it and make it yours by changing it, chopping it and making it something else and thank the person for sharing the file they designed or chopped up.

My point is, don't let that type of customer keep you up at night.

I have found some consignment shops and local shops who want little to nothing or maybe 15% for the better known stores.
I try to stay out of them all together unless I am trying to get my name out in a different area. Which I do at times but for only making people aware of what I do.... not to make a profit.

This is a tuff business and I have found out that you will cut, build and make things you never thought about or wanted to do.

But, that's called custom work.

Just keep an eye out for the ones who want to steal your time, experience and services by low balling your skill.

Hope this helps in your decision and selling to that company.

[mdwalker]

Is $350.00 for a sheet of 16ga for hot rolled? Surely that is a misprint. What state are you in? I am in Oklahoma.

Danny

[AnotherDano]

Your input is always welcome and respected, elkriverfab. You've been very helpful and generous on the board, and do some great work.

They sure do like their steel in Texas, don't they? That's a pretty high price for materials from what I see up here in nowhere.

I make my roasters from 11ga hot rolled and buy it in 4x10 sheets. Cut in half, I can squeeze it into my old SUV. Just got 3 sheets (4x5) of 14ga for just under $200.00 with no cutting charge. Most of the things I do is 14ga and, as with the roasters, I think people like the heft of the products.

I do like the arrangement I have with my store owners. They like to be 'the only place in town to get this' and I am comfortable with it. I don't want to be caught in the middle between squabbling merchants. It works in a small town.

Wyoming has a program that provides neat little "Made in Wyoming" stickers to put on our products. Customers see it and ask who made things and where they can be contacted. It's working for me. I want merchants to contact me with ideas for something they want to be the exclusive seller of.

Here's my roaster that sells for $40.00.

[elkriverfab]

Hey guys, no misprint...That is what a 4 X 8 sheet of 16 gauge stainless runs here.

Most steel yards don't have stainless unless its used scrap and the ones that do charge for it.

My wife wanted me to make a bunch of the roasters and set up a booth for the weekend, just relax a little and for me to get out of the shop and farm.

I called the shops who sell stainless and we both said scrap that idea.

We tried again when a shop wanted to sell the roasters. Still too high.

I see it as a location issue. Hey everybody, Mexico is here to stay! Their low cost labor, low cost items and not to mention their low cost manufacturing.

I see it with the products I offer. A lot of the things I see you guys build and sell on this site, is just not going to get the same money here.

PLEASE understand, It's not a racist thing just a economic fact.

Also, the imported or Mexican items are of low quality and very thin material. They don't want heft or solid items, so the people here cant see the cost involved with material.

Just what I see.......

I will say this, When I lived in Northern Arizona (Flagstaff) a 4 X 8 sheet of 16 gauge cold rolled steel cost me around $112.00 a sheet.
Not stainless just cold rolled. Now that's highway robbery. They claimed it was because of the shipping and freight charges.

I asked for a business discount or bulk discount and they told me I had to order 40 tons in order to get a discount.

40 tons is a lot of 16 gauge sheets!!

If I was able to compete with the imports, I too would go for the local shops like you do.

Wyoming has a different class of people by far and in general the cost for everything is higher like Flagstaff is.

I am sure not all of Texas is like this but South Texas is not a high end area for sure.

But materials are not cheap at all either.

I gave a bid to a company in New York a while back and lost it due to the stainless steel cost here. my material cost was about (5) times higher than what they could get it for in New York.

They liked me ability and wanted me to do the pieces but materials were too high. Once I called their area and saw material prices, even I would have gone with someone else.

Thanks for the complaints and they way I see it......everybody here is very talented, skilled and a pleasure to have on this site (maybe not the ones who fill the posts with jokes and spam).

If we didn't have these kinds of problems, it wouldn't be AMERICA! we would not be free and some dictator would be telling us what we could cut, sell and profit.

You just suck it up and move on!

[mdwalker]

I didn't realize that price was for stainless. I buy 4x8 16ga hot rolled steel for just under $42.00 for 4x8 sheet. I was gonna offer to bring you 10 sheets for half of what your paying and drive 1200 miles round trip! We would both make money. Have you ever tried making the roasters out of regular hot rolled steel and seasoning them like a cast iron skillet? I haven't tried it but I have heard it works just like cast iron.

Danny

[elkriverfab]

Danny,

I was going to season them like cast iron.

I was thinking of boileing each one in oil for a while (turkey fryer).

Just a thought. I figure if I boiled them in oil after cleaning them, it would start them out right.

[mdwalker]

It should work. Let us know how it turns out.

Danny

[elkriverfab]

Danny,

I sure will.
I think it would be an alternative to the stainless steel and if they are kept oiled it should weather good.

If it works, it may be worth letting my wife set up a both and let her have at it!

[AnotherDano]

At least this day started out better than the previous two.

I dropped by my Cooking Store just as a lady was buying a roaster. That's three in ten days. Turns out her husband is running for Sheriff - might be nice to get to know them.

Keep in mind, around here the Bucking Horse (Steamboat) is huge deal. She asked if I could make one for the side of her house - well, yeah, that what I do!

Explained the difference between paint and powder coating and she want one as big as I can get in the oven. Sweet.

And my store owner is a happy gal, too.

[pinfab]

Hey Bill here is a link to a online metal site ,http://www.metalsdepot.com/catalog_cart_view.php?msg=, the price for 16ga there is 268.00 a sheet 4X8.. if you order more than one the price always drops,, This is where i buy my SS for anything , but i usually buy it bulk ,, like 10 sheets at a time.. Perry

[urbnsr]

... Here's my roaster that sells for $40.00.

Excuse my ignorance, but how does your roaster work, please?

Thank you.
Paul

[AnotherDano]

... Here's my roaster that sells for $40.00.

Excuse my ignorance, but how does your roaster work, please?

Thank you.
Paul

Not a bad question. I should take a picture of one in use.

Lop the tops off a bunch of jalapino peppers and stuff them with cheese. There are dozens of 'secret' recipies out there.
The peppers are placed in the holes.
Most will fit about 2/3 of the way into the holes. If they are too small, soak toothpics in water and poke them into the sides of the pepper to keep them from falling through. If they are too big, you need to make a store-run for smaller ones.

Put the whole thing on a grill. When the bottoms are just starting to char, put the whole thing on a platter and serve them out of the roaster. The platter is to catch the melted cheese overflow,,, it always happens.

[urbnsr]

...Not a bad question. I should take a picture of one in use. ...

That is really neat. Thanks for the explanation, Dano. I only wish I could be as inovative.
And... Now I'm hungry, too!

PK

[songshun]

Hey Bill here is a link to a online metal site ,http://www.metalsdepot.com/catalog_cart_view.php?msg=, the price for 16ga there is 268.00 a sheet 4X8.. if you order more than one the price always drops,, This is where i buy my SS for anything , but i usually buy it bulk ,, like 10 sheets at a time.. Perry

hello, you also can take a look at https://steelpurchase.com/steel-supply/,
our company usually import steel from it, including sae 52100 steel round bar, h13 mold steel, p20 mold steel, stainless steel and etc.
but maybe the moq is big, you need to consider it, but more quantity, the price is lower
hope that can help you