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Everlast - Confused

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Dingo745
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Everlast - Confused

Postby Dingo745 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:41 am

I was advised by people on this forum to go with an Everlast Plasma Cutter in preference to another Chinese brand which I had intended on using.
Anyhow I got a message from a member on CNC zone forum who was using an Everlast 50S and a Proma THC, and he had very little good to say about the Everlast in his opinion and it had given him a lot of problems which is not what I wanted to hear.
So did this guy just get a lemon and they are great or are they not that great but just not as bad as brand XYZ
As a result I am totally baffled on what cutter to get, but I do know that a Hypertherm is not within my budget so any suggestions please.

Thanks.

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Re: Everlast - Confused

Postby gamble » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:12 am

I've heard some good things with some of the everlast cutters.
Whats your budget
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Re: Everlast - Confused

Postby acourtjester » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:42 am

I would fine out exactly which Everlast plasma he is talking about.
see attached that show the difference.
I am not saying you should buy Everlast but there is a difference in the start (HF or Blow Back).
I have a Everlast TIG and it works fine
plasma start.jpg

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Dingo745
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Re: Everlast - Confused

Postby Dingo745 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:47 am

I was referring to the Power Plasma 50S
My budget is a max of $1500 AUD which is about $1000 USD
The cheapest Hypertherm is about $2500 AUD so it's way past my limit for a home built hobby machine for light sign and decorative panels in mild and stainless steel

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Re: Everlast - Confused

Postby muzza » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:38 pm

You're probably fairly right in your assumption of it being better than others but still not great. You see a lot of them on Gumtree and Evilbay (and also thrown in the corner covered in dust) as opposed to Hypertherm but you do quite often see older PM 1000's come up used which in my opinion is still far better than a new Chinese. My experience has proved to me that you can kid yourself into thinking something is OK but at the end of the day, you only get what you pay for. My father always said that it was better to pay too much and lose a little than to pay too little and lose much. You're going to waste a fair amount of consumables and material just trying to dial it in too.

The dearer machine will also save you a lot more in the long term, especially as more than likely you will have to buy a better one at some stage anyhow. I have had many plasma cutters in the past 30 years and currently run multiple Hypertherms, the only other one I would consider for CNC work is a Thermal Dynamics of which there was a 40 amp 2 year old one on Gumtree a couple of months back asking $800 which I was going to buy as a spare but too busy to drive 1 1/2 hours to get it.

Another thing you will find is that the Aussie distributors add a fair slice on too, I know they are not supposed to but you will find some US sellers that will sell you a Hypertherm about a third to half the price of local. If they wont ship to Australia there are many freight forwarders who will help and they are not CE machines but I have a couple I bought that way and with what I saved I could ship them back to Us for repair if I needed to.

To put it in perspective, you can buy a Proton ute much cheaper than a Commodore ute.
Will it get you from a to b? probably most times yes but when it doesn't can you get parts for it and if so what do they cost?
Can you find easy maintenance solutions? , things don't always work as they should.
If you put a load on it what will happen?
If you want to performance enhance it, can it be done?
If you have to rely on it can you?

Me I'd rather buy a 5 year old Commodore than a brand new Proton and i know which one will still be going in another 5 years and still get parts for.
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Last edited by muzza on Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Everlast - Confused

Postby mechanicalmongoose20 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:43 pm

Dingo745 wrote:I was referring to the Power Plasma 50S
My budget is a max of $1500 AUD which is about $1000 USD
The cheapest Hypertherm is about $2500 AUD so it's way past my limit for a home built hobby machine for light sign and decorative panels in mild and stainless steel



I bought my PMX45 used and paid right at $1k for it. Still cuts day after day after day. I am a Hypertherm fanboy. Buy it once, buy it right.
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Re: Everlast - Confused

Postby gamble » Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:39 pm

mechanicalmongoose20 wrote:
Dingo745 wrote:I was referring to the Power Plasma 50S
My budget is a max of $1500 AUD which is about $1000 USD
The cheapest Hypertherm is about $2500 AUD so it's way past my limit for a home built hobby machine for light sign and decorative panels in mild and stainless steel



I bought my PMX45 used and paid right at $1k for it. Still cuts day after day after day. I am a Hypertherm fanboy. Buy it once, buy it right.

Problem is they are never for sale used lol
But I have owned a few of them. The one I rock now I think I paid $900 off Craig'slist then $600 for the machine torch
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Re: Everlast - Confused

Postby Capstone » Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:43 am

gamble wrote:
mechanicalmongoose20 wrote:
Dingo745 wrote:I was referring to the Power Plasma 50S
My budget is a max of $1500 AUD which is about $1000 USD
The cheapest Hypertherm is about $2500 AUD so it's way past my limit for a home built hobby machine for light sign and decorative panels in mild and stainless steel



I bought my PMX45 used and paid right at $1k for it. Still cuts day after day after day. I am a Hypertherm fanboy. Buy it once, buy it right.

Problem is they are never for sale used lol
But I have owned a few of them. The one I rock now I think I paid $900 off Craig'slist then $600 for the machine torch


And there it is... If you INVEST in a Hypertherm NEW, the long term outcome is that you saved money for the time it outlasts and outperforms the the cheaper Chinese. If it's CNC related, I'm not really sure why there's such a debate here. Wait a little longer for the right cutter, whether that's used or just saving your sheckles for new. ;)
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Re: Everlast - Confused

Postby jimcolt » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:20 am

There is a Powermax85 (new about $3400) in the NH Craigslist for $1800. Thought about buying it....but I already have 4 Hypertherm Powermax units.......oh well.

Time is money. You can spend countless hours trying to adjust cut quality, you can replace consumables like candy, you can figure things out with no factory support. A small number of users have made the low cost Chinese machines work acceptably on CNC machines. With the Hypertherm you connect it and open the manaula to the cut charts and start cutting....and cutting and cutting. If you have an issue the humans in technical service will be more than happy to help. The time saved is worth far more than the difference in purchase price! Jim Colt

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Re: Everlast - Confused

Postby Dingo745 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:11 am

All worthy advice thanks, but I must reiterate that I am on a very tight budget which doesn't help much

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Re: Everlast - Confused

Postby tnbndr » Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:21 am

but I must reiterate that I am on a very tight budget which doesn't help much

Well, you've been well advised. I would wait or cheap out on something else but not the most important part of the process!!!!
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Re: Everlast - Confused

Postby urbnsr » Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:00 pm

I can understand. I started with a Longevity 80 amp plasma cutter for about the 1/3rd of the price of a Hypertherm PM85. Cut quality was no comparison to the Hypertherm, but it fit my budget at the time and allowed me to make enough money to pay for the Hypertherm. I did spend more time getting parts ready to ship with the Longevity, but I was also making money sooner.

I wouldn't want to use anything but Hypertherm now, but this is now. Not then.

YMMV
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Re: Everlast - Confused

Postby Dingo745 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:46 am

That is my problem. I am only doing this build for something to do to keep myself sane as I have been on a disability pension for a long time and that is my only income so saving money always takes a very long time for me hence the need, not want for a more budget oriented plasma.
I also know my form and I will no doubt sell this after I have finished it and get bored with it and I will then be looking for that next project.
This is my fourth CNC build so far and all the previous builds have been router and mill conversions.
So to stay within my budget I will probably limited to an Everlast cutter as that is what I'm told is my best "cheap option"

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Re: Everlast - Confused

Postby msimpson99 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:34 am

Ok, I have to chime in here. I have an Everlast 50S. The 50S is new this year and is identical to the 60S, 70S and 80S. Just less power. It comes with everything you need to connect it to your PC to control via CNC. Please note that I also have a Hypertherm Powermax 65. The Everlast 50S can not compete with the Hypertherm PM65 or PM85 mostly due to the lack of readily available consumables. For one I can only get 40 and 50 amp consumables. Unshielded only, so no Ohmic option. Please note that the 50S is a blowback torch and does not use HF. I have found it very easy to control Via the PC. In my case I just use a relay to close contacts, to fire the torch via the rear CNC connector.

I have been able to dial in the 40Amp consumables and get some really decent cuts in 1/8" material. Honestly, I just use the Hypertherm powermax 65 settings for 45 Amps as a starting point. As for the Proma THC. You can do searches and find people with that THC having problems with every plasma cutter, even Hypertherm units. It does not really have any smarts of its own, so you need to setup several rules in Sheetcam to compensate for things.

The Everlast 50S has much less power and air requirments than my Powermax 65. So its very forgiving in many situations. The PT60 hand torch (included with the 50S) is very easy to mount on a CNC.

All my initial plasma cnc experiments was done with the 50S. You can see them here:
http://www.kronosrobotics.com/krmx02-plasma/

I am doing research for a few books I will be publishing. The first book is for a smaller CNC plasma cutter that can be built and used in a home shop or garage. By design it will require lower power, and less air. I will be using an Everlast 50S and a Hypertherm 45 (if I can get my hands on one) for this build.

Here is a picture of the prototype for this build.
_MG_4081.jpg


As for the THC I will use, I will probably be playing with the Proma, mainly because it is so cheap, as well as a couple others.

Bottom line, just because one person has problems with a particular brand does not mean anything. I have had problems with my Hypertherm, but I am not about to throw it out the window.

When it comes to plasma CNC, here is how I see it. All roads eventually lead to Hypertherm. Its just that some of us may need to take some back roads to get there.

Oh, one last thing. This video shows me using the Everlast 50s to cut an adapter for my shop press.
https://youtu.be/bFJ2gMY743s

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Dingo745
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Re: Everlast - Confused

Postby Dingo745 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:55 am

Thanks for the reply and it makes me feel more confident in going with the Everlast and I agree that people will always problems with any product that they buy, and it's about trying to balance out the various views on the different brands.

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Re: Everlast - Confused

Postby jimcolt » Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:48 am

If you need a plasma cutter and have a fixed budget to purchase one.....then the purchase price becomes more important than cut performance and operating cost. The same issue applies to any type of purchase. So...the choices are to purchase a system that meets your budget.....could be a new, low cost import plasma, or you could be patient and watch Craigslist for a second hand major brand system. Either will cut metal.

The point is...not all plasma cutters are the same. The technology embedded in some of the units that cost more provides for advantages in cut quality, consumable life, reliability. Further, the major brand units (well at least the Hypertherm ones) come with a very good operators manual with many pages of cut charts, operating advice, troubleshooting tips, parts lists and contact information for factory support.

In my younger years I wanted to equip my home shop with all the metal fabricating equipment I could afford....to support my stock car building/racing addiction. Often I bought tools based on the lowest purchase price. Often these tools did a marginal job, or broke quickly. At that time (roughly 35 years ago) I discovered that buying good used major brand equipment was a much better decision than the low cost import stuff. As I age....I know that buying tools with low price as the primary decision maker...will not get you tools that your grandchildren will someday inherit! Jim Colt Hypertherm

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Re: Everlast - Confused

Postby msimpson99 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:59 am

That is spot on Jim. When I started my research project. I was tempted to go with Hypertherm. The entry cost was more than I had budgeted. Simply put in the first months I only had about $1200 to create a working CNC plasma cutter. That cost included the plasma cutter and the CNC machine as well.

I decided on converting one of my smaller CNC machines. This would only cost me some conversion costs and since it so small, a modest amount to create the downdraft table. The Everlast 50S was just released and could be purchased through HomeDepot for under $900. To me it was a no brainer, If the 50s arrived busted, or it did not work out, I had 90days to return it.

There was yet another driving force, that applies only to my circumstances. I needed to try other machines. I cant very well write about the disadvantages of machine types with out actually using them. Too many already doing that.

While the Everlast 50s filled my requirements for the middle of the road plasma cutter, for the same reason, I also needed to have a machine on the higher end of the spectrum. For that reason (as well as others), I chose the Hypertherm Powermax 65.

No matter what, cost is going to be the driving factor for many folks. A few years back, I was building up my woodworking shop, I had the money, and only purchased Festool products. These are crazy expensive, but all commercial grade. The funny thing is, they hold their value and because of that, I was able to sell a few hardly used Festools, and purchase my Hypertherm Powermax 65 with both hand and machine torches.

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Re: Everlast - Confused

Postby Brand X » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:58 pm

msimpson99 wrote:
When it comes to plasma CNC, here is how I see it. All roads eventually lead to Hypertherm. Its just that some of us may need to take some back roads to get there.


That is not necessarily true for me.. Esab,Victor build some excellent plasma cutters too. It's was nice to be able to compare all three in my shop. I could pretty much be happy with any of them for different reasons..Current models generally.. I only sold one off, because I sure don't need three of them..My favorite was my Esab as far as cutting. Plasma marking was super easy to do without any special setup.(15 amp low-end) Had awesome low amp nozzles too.. Something Hypertherm is bringing out just now..(glad about that) I am not sure how many people have spent a lot of time running the different brands on their table..Now victor is the hardest to get cutting correctly, but when dialed in, it works excellent too.. (tough nut to crack with some of their parameters) In fact some of the very best combo's are tips (Victor calls them tips) that have no parameters at all. 30, 50/55, and 70 amp tips....are not even listed in any of their manuals. Now for most people the Hypertherm is the best to use, but not for everything, and everyone.. :lol: I guess I like all three from my experiences using them.. I will say Victor is the easiest to hate, and one of the most rewarding when you get it figured out.. You seem to learn more about the process then when using the other machines.. It's older torch design kind of narrows the parameters where it works best.. To be expected. When I have a problem with something on my Hypertherm, I generally can get it dialed very quickly, because of all the work with using the Victor machines over the years..

I just put the Hypertherm back on the table the other day.. The THC was acting funny after I changed it over.. Windows changed something for me. Found it, and now it's working excellent.. Makes me what to put the victor back on, and see if it was messed up with it.. 8-)

Anyway, all roads might just might lead to my Smith O/A- O/P torch too. Just depends what you want or are doing at the time... :mrgreen:

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