It is currently Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:50 pm

 

Burntables conversion

Burn Tables plasma table discussion forum
hcweld
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:55 pm
Contact:

Burntables conversion

Postby hcweld » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:29 pm

I'm new to the forum...I have a three month old BT table, using a Hypertherm Powermax 45. I am having issues with the THC. I know...no surprise, right? I am having a hard time with the support at BT and am now considering changing the underpowered motors, and control box to a system from CandCnC. Has anyone done this? How do you like the results? Please provide any info possible.

Thanks

Larry83301
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1729
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:36 pm
Location: Twin Falls, Idaho
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby Larry83301 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:52 pm

hcweld wrote:I'm new to the forum...I have a three month old BT table, using a Hypertherm Powermax 45. I am having issues with the THC. I know...no surprise, right? I am having a hard time with the support at BT and am now considering changing the underpowered motors, and control box to a system from CandCnC. Has anyone done this? How do you like the results? Please provide any info possible.

Thanks


Try a search using " CandCnC " there are a bunch of replies talking about that type of setup. :D

Larry

hcweld
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby hcweld » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:34 am

Thanks so much for the reply. I have searched candcnc and have seen the posts. I was Hoping for more of some personal testimonials regarding this type of conversion. Also, is Tom at candcnc a stand up guy? It seems so, but it also seemed that way early on when I bought my BT.

Thanks

B Holmes
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:29 pm
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby B Holmes » Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:43 pm

I for one, will say Tom and the whole crew at CandCNC are very (stand up) people, in all of my experiences with them. Great products, great support.
5 x 10 Air bladder water table
Precision plasma HDB gantry
CandCnC 620-4 Bladerunner
Feather touch ohmic plate sensing
Hypertherm Powermax 65
2015 Autocad lt
Sheetcam
Mach 3
Central California

hcweld
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby hcweld » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:56 pm

Thats what I suspected but its good to hear from someone else. Thank you

User avatar
CNCCAJUN
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1117
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:38 pm
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby CNCCAJUN » Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:36 pm

I originally started out a few years ago wanting to build my own machine from scratch, a CNC ROUTER.

Tom is the one that convinced me that beyond making signs "if you have the artistic skills", a router was a slow money maker . . .

He spent several hours with me educating me about a plasma table. He sent me & my $$$ on my way and told me to reconsider my router choice & if I would truly be able to build my own.

Made trips to shops in (4) different states. Tom was one of my trips, go see him . . . after you meet him, his crew & see his operation you will have no doubts . . .if you want turnkey, go see Dynatorch . . .

Then I thought, buy turnkey, so I researched everything and everybody.

I chose to go Dynatorch because they too were great guys to deal with. No BS, just knowledge and results. Also because I quickly realized building my own from scratch would take me months. Dynatorch builds what I wanted, a machine that I could afford that was built like a rock. If Dynatorch were to magically disappear tomorrow I could call Tom and be back up and running in a week because I have a table that is built to industry standards & it would be simple for CCNC to outfit it.
I would be on Mach and have a hell of a learning curve, but I would be up.

My 2 cents . . .
Steve
Smiling Gator Metal Works, LLC
Dynatorch 4X4 XLS
PowerMAX 85
Baton Rouge, Louisiana

Metriccar
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 482
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby Metriccar » Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:24 pm

What controls does BurnTables use? I know they use a stripped down version of Mach3 and some weird "dial" for THC, but I'm surprised it doesn't already have CandCNC controls on there already? Could you just put another THC and get another copy of Mach3 and solve that part of the issue then just get motors?

The issues I have seen with BurnTables is not just the THC and motor, but the frame build quality and gantry design as well, belts rubbing against the gantry, frame rails crooked, etc. If you were to keep this BurnTables and not return it, as I know some have insisted on returning their BurnTables, maybe you would want to look into a gantry kit that came with motors rather than just pumping money into it.

There are a LOT of tables out there using CandCNC. I'm sure it's the #1 selling controller aside from table manufacturers that have their own design (Torchmate, PlasmaCAM, etc).

hcweld
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby hcweld » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:28 am

Burntables uses some kinda cheap controls that they came up with I think.....no digital readout, only knobs to adjust torch height and pierce height. Their Mach 3 program that is supplied is really simplified too. It all works.....sometimes, and that's the issue. It should be more consistent. Also, for my hypertherm powermax 45 to be used with their controller, it had to be modified internally (which I now find out is not only dangerous but will void the factory warranty).

I'm not sure why the wouldn't just use controls and drive motors from candcnc.

sodfarmer
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:54 pm
Location: Van Wert, Iowa
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby sodfarmer » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:49 am

I would recommend CandCNC also. I've had their system for over 4 years now and has been pretty much flawless. I wouldn't use any of the electronics from burntables, they are trying to save a few bucks with their own electronics. Stick with the kits from tom and download the manuals from him before the kit arrives, makes the install alot easier.

Brand X
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby Brand X » Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:45 pm

Over Ten years using Tom's stuff. upgrading along the way. (One of the original poor tables on the scene at the time) About when SheetCam got going too.(Les, actually got my table working and there was hope) Bought one of Tom's stand alone THC for my table, it worked well.Then one of the original plasma pac retro setups. That lasted a long time, and about six months ago something locked up in my system. Sent it down to Tom's place and the upgraded my control box, waved the check out fee too.. My control box checked out good, so I just upgraded to the 3100 series THC. Cost me something like 40.00 to upgrade my old controls to the new stuff. Not counting the price of the THC upgrade/cards etc..

Tom at CandCNC/ Les at SheetCam is the reason things have progressed so much in the home hobby-Home built table end of things. Art at mach too. Otherwise every hobby guy would be using Torchmate or Plasmacam and their Proprietary systems. Much better choices in the CNC plasma world because of those guys. 8-)

suttoncnc
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby suttoncnc » Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:12 am

I am running a CANDCNC controls on my home build. Works great and Tom is there when I need any assistance. I would highly recommend his setup. My machine is a 60% router/25% plasma cutter/5% oxy fuel cutter/5% vinyl cutter and a 5% circuit board printer. I have spent years making it as versatile as practical so all the various jobs that I do can be automated with the CNC. CANDCNC and SheetCam make all of this possible. One day I will build another machine to offload some of the task that my one machine does right now, I will again chose to use the CANDCNC control system.

Scott

Largemouthlou
Posts: 1288
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:56 am
Location: Palm Bch Gardens Fl
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby Largemouthlou » Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:40 am

Tom's stuff has come a long way since I bought about 6 yrs ago, I will be upgrading to their latest and greatest soon, As long as you have a little common sense you can learn Mach and Sheetcam. Les is another that has been great in developing and maintaining sheet cam.
1250 hypertherm
4 X 8 Precision Plasma
CandCnC electronics

BTA Plasma
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 4:28 pm
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby BTA Plasma » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:52 am

That table has a 3-4 for acceleration. You may never find a good retrofit candidate. You need at least 15 in your acceleration value in Mach 3 to get even marginal results. Thats a factor of 5 times what you have now. So look at your motor its most likely a 280oz motor that means you would need a much more powerful motor...over 1000inoz. The problem comes in when your using a motor that size the stack gets long on the motor and the top speed suffers greatly. So then you may be stuck at 100ipm max. Those tables should never have been put on the market they are a nightmare for owners. The lost steps, the lack of fine cut consumable support and the anemic acceleration. Those and Lightning CNC share the cup for the worst of the worst out there. You would be much happier selling it back to them at a loss and getting a table that supports actual book cut speeds.

Metriccar
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 482
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby Metriccar » Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:16 pm

BTA Plasma wrote:So look at your motor its most likely a 280oz motor that means you would need a much more powerful motor...over 1000inoz. The problem comes in when your using a motor that size the stack gets long on the motor and the top speed suffers greatly. So then you may be stuck at 100ipm max.


I agree he should definitely return it but I'm not sure what you're saying, why it coldn't be retrofitted with new controllers, Mach3 and put new motors on it?

hcweld
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby hcweld » Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:43 pm

I think I have decided to use the foundation of the burntables table and upgrade the controls with candcnc.

I have spoken with Tom twice and have had nothing but enjoyable, informative conversations. The folks at burntables have done nothing but blame every issue on me or my plasma machine, Kyle actually told me that this should be a learning experience. I didn't pay his asking price to learn. I hope that anyone who is considering a burntables cnc plasma table, heed my advise and look elsewhere. I look forward to dealing with Tom and his staff at Candcnc.

Metriccar
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 482
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby Metriccar » Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:38 pm

Learning Experience? As in you got shammed and should use it as a learning experience? I think you should call Visa and file a claim.

hcweld
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby hcweld » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:32 pm

I should clarify...I think that he meant that figuring out the problems with the table was the learning experience. Not the purchase experience.

jimcolt
Elite Contributing Member
Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: New Hampshire
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby jimcolt » Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:18 am

There are a lot of choices for plasma cutting cnc machines. Unfortunately many choose based solely on the best price. Plasma cutters need consistent, constant speed which on small part details requires excellent acceleration. Every corner requires de-acceleration, and then acceleration in order to get back to the all important speed. Machines that are heavier certainly look like a good piece of shop equipment that will last, however heavier will affect acceleration and de-acceleration. Not only do larger machines need larger motors, they also need correct gearing, correct tuning (for smooth acceleration) and for best performance they need some engineering in the form of "inertia matching".

So bigger, heavier is not always the best solution, although with good engineering it can be done. There are industrial machines that are 40' wide and over 100' long that can out accelerate most of these under $20k machines....a lot of engineering goes into their drive systems! Lowest cost usually means something was left out or corners were cut to save cost. Buying from companies that have a lot of machines in the field (meaning they probably have solved many of the above issues a few thousand machines ago) is a good idea, and if you are building your own machine....listening to the experts like Tom at CandCNC.com is a good idea.

I have not even mentioned height control yet....and how absolutely critical a full featured height control is to consumable life in the plasma torch and cut quality....

Jim Colt Hypertherm

hcweld
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby hcweld » Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:12 pm

Jim, I completely agree. This much, I have learned throughout this experience.

shiner2001
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:01 pm
Location: Buffalo Gap, TX
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby shiner2001 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:16 pm

I'm sure you've stumbled across this at this point, but if not, here was my experience...

viewtopic.php?f=73&t=13478
Derek
Precision Plasma LD 4x8
CandCNC BladeRunner EtherCut Mark IV
HT PM 45

shiner2001
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:01 pm
Location: Buffalo Gap, TX
Contact:

Re: Burntables conversion

Postby shiner2001 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:19 pm

hcweld wrote:Also, is Tom at candcnc a stand up guy? It seems so, but it also seemed that way early on when I bought my BT.

Thanks


Having been in both of their shops and met all the involved parties face to face, I can say that Tom is beyond reproach in his business dealings. As far as the guys in Hutto...well...I think you know the answer to that one.
Derek
Precision Plasma LD 4x8
CandCNC BladeRunner EtherCut Mark IV
HT PM 45


Return to “Burn Tables”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest