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Can't figure this out...

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comeoutswingin
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Re: Can't figure this out...

Postby comeoutswingin » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:18 am

Well that makes sense... My X, Y, A axis all seem to be holding the same settings? My Z is different.. I have no idea what these values should actually be?

a.JPG

z.JPG

y.JPG

x.JPG
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Re: Can't figure this out...

Postby acourtjester » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:50 am

I don't know what works best for your table but I normally have the acceleration 1/4 of the velocity, (velocity 200 acceleration 50). You should be able to tune each by using the keyboard arrow keys to move the X and Y, page up /down for the Z. Make changes to the numbers and see when the motor run smoothly with no stalling, increase the velocity until it stalls and drop back 10%, then move to the next axis. IMHO :)
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Re: Can't figure this out...

Postby dhelfter » Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:56 pm

Those are the correct settings for your machine.
I still have no idea what could cause this especially on gcode that you have run hundreds of times before. I take it that it is random? If not a video of screen may help. If it is random when you see it slow down look at bottom left of screen and see what the commanded federate is.
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Re: Can't figure this out...

Postby dhelfter » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:01 pm

Acourtjester. I also like the 1/4 rule but as you get above 200 to 300 on velocity it doesn't work as well in my experience. The acceleration on his machine would now be 175 which the machine can do without stalling motors however vibration becomes an issue.
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Re: Can't figure this out...

Postby acourtjester » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:29 pm

"200 to 300 on velocity it doesn't work as well in my experience" His scren shot for X and Y shows the velocity of 700 ?????
I was just using 200 as a reference to be sure they understood the 1/4 ratio.
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Re: Can't figure this out...

Postby dhelfter » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:37 pm

I understand the 200 was an example.
What I was saying is as velocity goes up the ratio of velocity to acceleration most likely will not be able to be the same (25%)
On his system with 700 velocity, if you set acceleration to 25% that would be 175 inches per second squared.
On our large pipe machines the long axis is set to 3000IPM so at 25% the acceleration would be 750 IPSS or almost two gees!
Again not that these high acceleration rates are not possible, it is just that with sub 20,000$ machines they will usually vibrate way to much at those high rates.

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Re: Can't figure this out...

Postby Brand X » Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:16 pm

So when your machine jogs. (lets say in between cuts) it does so at 700 ipm.. Also at the end of the cut to home/start point.. I understand you can control jog speed in Mach, let say 40 % or so,but it still does not change the 700 ipm travel speed between cuts, etc.. If you have tip up, way less time to react. (IMO) Am I missing something here? Like you can control the 700 top end some other way? I run 35 on accel, because it seem like plenty for anything I cut..

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Re: Can't figure this out...

Postby gijoe54 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:24 pm

i had this same issue on my 5x8 , i had to factory reset all my parameters to undo all of the minor adjustments my programming did for kerf width and saved to the base programming. but the slop in the motor is worrisome. at one point a student i had drilled the table with the head and stripped a tooth on one of the drive gears, it wasn't enough to see, but it was enough to offset my cut lines by .055in.

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Re: Can't figure this out...

Postby tcaudle » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:42 pm

I would consider pulling the motor and see if you can loosen the one set screw and use a gear puller to remove the pulley. YOumay wreck it so have another one ready . When you put the new pulley on line up the flat with one screw and use some cylindrical rated loktite (green) on the shaft then tighten the set screw. It won't spin any more. You will have to heat it to get it back off

Do you have a pendant ? either something is messing with your feedrates override in MACH or something is corrupt in MACH itself. Backup your whole MACH3 folder to a thumbdrive. Check to see what version of MACH you are running (Help/About) and then see if you have a copy of MACH with that release. You don't want to jsut upgrade MACH. You need to do a fresh install than do an install of the drivers and screens THEN copy in the XML's from your backup.

When MACH starts doing weird things like not reading the feedrates right from code its time to reload.

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Re: Can't figure this out...

Postby comeoutswingin » Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:16 pm

Well I know its been a while, but I've just been dealing with this problem this entire time.. It's mostly sucked every bit of enjoyment out of using this table. So today I reloaded mach3. Now all it does is start to run the program, go over and pierce and then RAM the torch all the way til it limits out.

I'm about to sell it and go with a different table.
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Re: Can't figure this out...

Postby comeoutswingin » Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:33 pm

I took a video of whats going on.

https://youtu.be/myM6G--6EI0
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Re: Can't figure this out...

Postby tnbndr » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:27 am

but I've just been dealing with this problem this entire time

Why aren't you on the phone with Dan? I have had issues at times and if I can't figure it out, usually user error I will call Dan and he will troubleshoot over the phone.
What is the voltage doing during this video? When you reloaded Mach 3 did you copy all your old xml and set files and macros from the backup to the new install folders?
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Re: Can't figure this out...

Postby TTS » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:49 am

comeoutswingin wrote:I took a video of whats going on.

https://youtu.be/myM6G--6EI0


I have an LDR table as well. When mine does that I've noticed that somehow the z-axis readout will be way off like 6" or more. All I do is manually move the torch back close to the material, zero the z-axis and proceed. Not sure what is actually causing the problem, but I'm always watching the table if it's running so as soon as I see it coming I just correct it and I'm back off and running. Mine only happens maybe once a week so I've never really bothered with trying to pinpoint the problem down.

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Re: Can't figure this out...

Postby comeoutswingin » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:48 pm

tnbndr wrote:
but I've just been dealing with this problem this entire time

Why aren't you on the phone with Dan? I have had issues at times and if I can't figure it out, usually user error I will call Dan and he will troubleshoot over the phone.
What is the voltage doing during this video? When you reloaded Mach 3 did you copy all your old xml and set files and macros from the backup to the new install folders?


I am on the west coast. I've tried calling numerous times and I can never get a hold of him, and usually when I need this to work I need it to work RIGHT now. So I have little option but to seek help where I can find it.

TTS wrote:I have an LDR table as well. When mine does that I've noticed that somehow the z-axis readout will be way off like 6" or more. All I do is manually move the torch back close to the material, zero the z-axis and proceed. Not sure what is actually causing the problem, but I'm always watching the table if it's running so as soon as I see it coming I just correct it and I'm back off and running. Mine only happens maybe once a week so I've never really bothered with trying to pinpoint the problem down.


Mine will do this 5-6 times over a large sheet of parts. Consistently. Most times it wont fire the torch it will just run the z down until it limits out. Sometimes though it wont trigger a limit and the Z will sit there and grind away until its manually stopped. I've come back to find the z motor just grinding and the Z read out at like 5000+.

I wish I could show all these things happening, but I just want to cut my parts and move on, not sit there and video tape the table waiting for it to ruin a $200 sheet of steel. I just want it to work and not be so damn frustrating.
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Re: Can't figure this out...

Postby dhelfter » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:50 pm

Had no idea you were still working on this issue, as I never heard from you.
As asked for before, can you take a video of the screen while cutting? Not the actual torch movement.
Also, what thickness? amperage? preset volts? actual volts reading?

Dan
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Re: Can't figure this out...

Postby comeoutswingin » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:57 pm

dhelfter wrote:Had no idea you were still working on this issue, as I never heard from you.
As asked for before, can you take a video of the screen while cutting? Not the actual torch movement.
Also, what thickness? amperage? preset volts? actual volts reading?

Dan
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I gave up after about 3 days of not being able to reach anybody.

I worked through the torch diving by switching to a different LDR post.

Now I am back to the original speed override issue. Instead of using gcodes of files I have cut, today I did a new one from scratch, and sure enough locked at 35ipm when it was programmed at 100. But now its random. I cut some 1/8th this morning and the speeds were correct, but I was getting a visible motion pause during every cut.

.25", 65 amp, 127 volts, reading 126-127.

Here's a video of the screen as I cut some parts today out of .25"
https://youtu.be/qXYQBtoTemw
It's a pretty crappy video, but it shows the speeds at 35, at the end, during the long cut I bumped it manually to 100.
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Re: Can't figure this out...

Postby dhelfter » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:15 pm

You must have the wrong number?
We are open 7:00am to 4:00pm est. you never left a message or sent an email?

Dan
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Re: Can't figure this out...

Postby comeoutswingin » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:14 pm



You're absolutely correct it clearly shows the commanded feedrate to be 35. It's like mach3 is over riding the sheetcam feed rate because there's no toolpath programming of 35ipm. It seems to me that mach3 is taking the Z feedrate and applying it to the machine motion. It's applying this all on its own?
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Re: Can't figure this out...

Postby tcaudle » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:58 pm

If the feedrate is right in the G-Code then the G-Code interpreter in MACH should set that. That should show in the code. The other thing I have seen is MACH is not working right and you need to do a reload and then update for the drivers and plugins. A cut rule with a slowdown could be getting stuck in the code or its not getting an F command at the right time and its drops to some default value.


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