Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Questions, information, project pics and more relating to plate markers, engravers, and scribes.
Post Reply
Diesel
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:13 am
Location: Portage, WI

Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by Diesel »

As the subject implies, I was wondering if anyone has ever fitted a relatively low power laser to the Z axis on their plasma table.

I've seen some very impressive results so far with traditional scribes, but wondered if anyone has ever tried a laser. This has the potential for making very fine lines for marking bend lines, part numbers as well as offering quite the 'grayscale' gradient effect possible by varying the laser's output as it makes its way across the workpiece.

Regards,

Matt
Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
Hypertherm Powermax85
Quincy 325 compressor
Ingersoll Rand D18IN refrigerated air dryer
Millermatic 251 MIG
Everlast PowerPro 256 TIG/stick/plasma w/ water cooler
User avatar
acourtjester
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
6 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 7770
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:04 pm
Location: Pensacola, Fla

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by acourtjester »

I have seen videos on youtube using lasers removed from DVD writers however the power is only good enough to burn paper.
DIY 4X4 Plasma/Router Table
Hypertherm PM65 Machine Torch
Drag Knife and Scribe
Miller Mig welder
13" metal lathe
Small Mill
Everlast PowerTig 255 EXT
kkroger
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:56 pm

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by kkroger »

I can engrave fairly well with a Porter Cable Trim Router on my PPLLC/CandCNC table...

You currently do not have access to download this file.
To gain download access for DXF, SVG & other files Click Here

Diesel
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:13 am
Location: Portage, WI

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by Diesel »

acourtjester wrote:I have seen videos on youtube using lasers removed from DVD writers however the power is only good enough to burn paper.
That's a start! I'll have to look those up - thanks!
kkroger wrote:I can engrave fairly well with a Porter Cable Trim Router on my PPLLC/CandCNC table...
I'd say that's quite good!
What sort of router bit did you use on that?

Thanks guys - this is the type of dialogue I was hoping to start.

Regards,

Matt
Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
Hypertherm Powermax85
Quincy 325 compressor
Ingersoll Rand D18IN refrigerated air dryer
Millermatic 251 MIG
Everlast PowerPro 256 TIG/stick/plasma w/ water cooler
kkroger
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:56 pm

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by kkroger »

kkroger wrote:I can engrave fairly well with a Porter Cable Trim Router on my PPLLC/CandCNC table...
I'd say that's quite good!
What sort of router bit did you use on that?

Thanks guys - this is the type of dialogue I was hoping to start.

Regards,

Matt
Onsrud 1/4" Shank, 60 Degree 0 Point. Carbide, Dry, 30,000 RPM, 25 IPM feed rate (CAN cut faster but the finish is a bit rougher in the groove, this is cut at .010 depth, using a mean "0" I set zero in the center of the plate, then check zero on either side and top to bottom and take the average set the machine to that offset zero and run the program.
Prior to engraving I use a Straight Flute 1/4" Carbide bit to pocket a fixture, then use the V cutter tool and a contour to cut the lettering. I actually do all of the processes on that product, from Blanking, to Powder Coat to Engraving to "Fill" and finally packaging, this is Rev B on the Engraving, to simplify it and take the clients web site info off the product so they can sell it to a distributor and get away from direct sales. It is a tool used by the head linesman in American Football to keep track of the ball location on the down chains...
User avatar
WyoGreen
4 Star Member
4 Star Member
Posts: 897
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:36 pm
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by WyoGreen »

I built a laser to use on my CNC router machine. It uses a laser from a DLP (digital laser projector). As has been mentioned, it works fine on paper, wood, leather, plastic, etc. but will not even make a mark on metal, no matter how slow you go.

Steve
Precision Plasma gantry
CommandCNC Linux controller w/Feather Touch & PN200 hand controller
HT-45 plasma cutter
Plate Marker
Router
Laser
Diesel
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:13 am
Location: Portage, WI

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by Diesel »

kkroger wrote:Onsrud 1/4" Shank, 60 Degree 0 Point. Carbide, Dry, 30,000 RPM, 25 IPM feed rate (CAN cut faster but the finish is a bit rougher in the groove, this is cut at .010 depth, using a mean "0" I set zero in the center of the plate, then check zero on either side and top to bottom and take the average set the machine to that offset zero and run the program.
Prior to engraving I use a Straight Flute 1/4" Carbide bit to pocket a fixture, then use the V cutter tool and a contour to cut the lettering. I actually do all of the processes on that product, from Blanking, to Powder Coat to Engraving to "Fill" and finally packaging, this is Rev B on the Engraving, to simplify it and take the clients web site info off the product so they can sell it to a distributor and get away from direct sales. It is a tool used by the head linesman in American Football to keep track of the ball location on the down chains...
Outstanding information - thank you!
I'm starting to question whether I want a pneumatic scribe or rig up an electric unit. The latter sure would be quieter and cause the compressor to run less.
WyoGreen wrote:I built a laser to use on my CNC router machine. It uses a laser from a DLP (digital laser projector). As has been mentioned, it works fine on paper, wood, leather, plastic, etc. but will not even make a mark on metal, no matter how slow you go.
Good info, thanks!
I'm thinking I'd need at least 50W of laser output power to make decent lines on steel and other metals.

Regards,

Matt
Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
Hypertherm Powermax85
Quincy 325 compressor
Ingersoll Rand D18IN refrigerated air dryer
Millermatic 251 MIG
Everlast PowerPro 256 TIG/stick/plasma w/ water cooler
kkroger
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:56 pm

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by kkroger »

Diesel wrote:
kkroger wrote:Onsrud 1/4" Shank, 60 Degree 0 Point. Carbide, Dry, 30,000 RPM, 25 IPM feed rate (CAN cut faster but the finish is a bit rougher in the groove, this is cut at .010 depth, using a mean "0" I set zero in the center of the plate, then check zero on either side and top to bottom and take the average set the machine to that offset zero and run the program.
Prior to engraving I use a Straight Flute 1/4" Carbide bit to pocket a fixture, then use the V cutter tool and a contour to cut the lettering. I actually do all of the processes on that product, from Blanking, to Powder Coat to Engraving to "Fill" and finally packaging, this is Rev B on the Engraving, to simplify it and take the clients web site info off the product so they can sell it to a distributor and get away from direct sales. It is a tool used by the head linesman in American Football to keep track of the ball location on the down chains...
Outstanding information - thank you!
I'm starting to question whether I want a pneumatic scribe or rig up an electric unit. The latter sure would be quieter and cause the compressor to run less.

Regards,

Matt
Make no mistake the router running at 30000 RPM is not "Quiet" by any means, the "Plate Marker" is going to be faster unless you need to coat before you mark. the quality won't be nearly as good either. I used to work in an engraving shop... We had "Manual" Pantograph engravers back then and an Early CNC type, it SUCKED back then!
kkroger
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:56 pm

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by kkroger »

I don't want to Post Jump this so I am going top make a new thread on engraving...
I will drop a link here in a few... I have to do some screen shots and so forth...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15895&p=91080#p91080
Diesel
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:13 am
Location: Portage, WI

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by Diesel »

kkroger wrote:Make no mistake the router running at 30000 RPM is not "Quiet" by any means, the "Plate Marker" is going to be faster unless you need to coat before you mark. the quality won't be nearly as good either. I used to work in an engraving shop... We had "Manual" Pantograph engravers back then and an Early CNC type, it SUCKED back then!
I guess I should have qualified my statement. I was making the following assumption: an electric router running with no load is quieter than the same pneumatic scribe with no load.

I don't envision doing a lot of art type stuff, but I want my table to be as versatile as possible. I work in the diagnostic medical imaging field and get to see a wide variety of parts made from all sorts of materials. The stuff that's laser etched just looks like $1M...but does the end justify the means - that's the question.
kkroger wrote:I don't want to Post Jump this so I am going top make a new thread on engraving...
I will drop a link here in a few... I have to do some screen shots and so forth...
You guys are so polite on this forum. I'll have to check out that thread.
On edit: Great info with the step-by-step instructions!
Thanks for sharing that!

I'm learning a bunch and hope to be cutting in the coming months!

Regards,

Matt
Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
Hypertherm Powermax85
Quincy 325 compressor
Ingersoll Rand D18IN refrigerated air dryer
Millermatic 251 MIG
Everlast PowerPro 256 TIG/stick/plasma w/ water cooler
kkroger
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:56 pm

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by kkroger »

You want to have versatility?
Get Scanything from Stable Designs (Sheetcam) and a $28 SHIPPED Camera from Amazon...
A USB Extension cable will be needed.... it will cost more than the camera!

Then you will have a TRUE optical scanner... VERY nice function to have, the software actually uses the camera to "Drive" your machine around in MACH3 to create a .DXF to generate a cut path.

Pretty slick!
Diesel
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:13 am
Location: Portage, WI

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by Diesel »

kkroger wrote:You want to have versatility?
Get Scanything from Stable Designs (Sheetcam) and a $28 SHIPPED Camera from Amazon...
A USB Extension cable will be needed.... it will cost more than the camera!

Then you will have a TRUE optical scanner... VERY nice function to have, the software actually uses the camera to "Drive" your machine around in MACH3 to create a .DXF to generate a cut path.

Pretty slick!
Good point - I saw a few posts here on the forum about that setup.
VERY slick indeed. I have plans on adding one once I get up and running.

Regards,

Matt
Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
Hypertherm Powermax85
Quincy 325 compressor
Ingersoll Rand D18IN refrigerated air dryer
Millermatic 251 MIG
Everlast PowerPro 256 TIG/stick/plasma w/ water cooler
blackandtan
2.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
2.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 215
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:05 pm

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by blackandtan »

What camera did you use?
kkroger wrote:Get Scanything from Stable Designs (Sheetcam) and a $28 SHIPPED Camera from Amazon...
A USB Extension cable will be needed.... it will cost more than the camera!
Diesel
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:13 am
Location: Portage, WI

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by Diesel »

blackandtan wrote:What camera did you use?
http://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14168

Regards,

Matt
Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
Hypertherm Powermax85
Quincy 325 compressor
Ingersoll Rand D18IN refrigerated air dryer
Millermatic 251 MIG
Everlast PowerPro 256 TIG/stick/plasma w/ water cooler
blackandtan
2.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
2.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 215
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:05 pm

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by blackandtan »

Thanks
User avatar
Joe Jones
5 Star Elite Contributing Member
5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:33 pm
Location: Franklin, KY., USA
Contact:

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by Joe Jones »

Where would one purchase a separate 100 or 150 watt laser head to mount onto a CNC plasma carriage? I'd be willing to experiment with that, but I have not found a source for the laser without the entire table.
Franklin, KY., USA
Samson 510 & 4x4
6” Z Rail Lift Kit for PlasmaCam
CreatBot D600 PRO 3D Printer
12 Lasers
FREE DesignEdge Training!

It is more fun when it isn't necessary!
Diesel
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:13 am
Location: Portage, WI

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by Diesel »

Joe Jones wrote:Where would one purchase a separate 100 or 150 watt laser head to mount onto a CNC plasma carriage? I'd be willing to experiment with that, but I have not found a source for the laser without the entire table.
That's an excellent question.
I figured that's what I'd do - rob it from an existing complete machine.

Regards,

Matt
Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
Hypertherm Powermax85
Quincy 325 compressor
Ingersoll Rand D18IN refrigerated air dryer
Millermatic 251 MIG
Everlast PowerPro 256 TIG/stick/plasma w/ water cooler
User avatar
WyoGreen
4 Star Member
4 Star Member
Posts: 897
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:36 pm
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by WyoGreen »

You might try searching for industrial lasers on E-Bay, I found a few on there.

Steve
Precision Plasma gantry
CommandCNC Linux controller w/Feather Touch & PN200 hand controller
HT-45 plasma cutter
Plate Marker
Router
Laser
abmetal
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 797
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:37 pm
Location: Southeast Missouri

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by abmetal »

Two sites you can check for laser supplies are buildcnc.com and lightobject.com.

Allen
Diesel
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:13 am
Location: Portage, WI

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by Diesel »

WyoGreen wrote:You might try searching for industrial lasers on E-Bay, I found a few on there.
abmetal wrote:Two sites you can check for laser supplies are buildcnc.com and lightobject.com.
Excellent info - thanks, guys!

Regards,

Matt
Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
Hypertherm Powermax85
Quincy 325 compressor
Ingersoll Rand D18IN refrigerated air dryer
Millermatic 251 MIG
Everlast PowerPro 256 TIG/stick/plasma w/ water cooler
Diesel
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:13 am
Location: Portage, WI

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by Diesel »

Here is an interesting option for Mach3 users:

http://jtechphotonics.com/?page_id=1436

Note: this is a low power (2.8W max) laser

Cheers,

Matt
Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
Hypertherm Powermax85
Quincy 325 compressor
Ingersoll Rand D18IN refrigerated air dryer
Millermatic 251 MIG
Everlast PowerPro 256 TIG/stick/plasma w/ water cooler
User avatar
Nacs Fab
3 Star Member
3 Star Member
Posts: 329
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:11 pm
Location: Columbia, MO

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by Nacs Fab »

Diesel wrote:Here is an interesting option for Mach3 users:

http://jtechphotonics.com/?page_id=1436

Note: this is a low power (2.8W max) laser

Cheers,

Matt
WOW, I just got through reading some things on that site. I think i may make a purchase soon and report back what I find. Thanks for the link Matt!
Shop Droids Plasmabot 3.0 DIY 4x8 with water table
G540 with LCTHC by candcnc
Hypertherm 1250 with Duramax Torch Upgrade
all built... by me...
Diesel
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:13 am
Location: Portage, WI

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by Diesel »

Nacs Fab wrote: WOW, I just got through reading some things on that site. I think i may make a purchase soon and report back what I find. Thanks for the link Matt!
You betcha.
I'm curious to see exactly how much power is required to get a good etch on various sheet stock and pipe.

Cheers,

Matt
Custom LDR Motion Systems 5x10 table w/ rotary axis and scribe
Hypertherm Powermax85
Quincy 325 compressor
Ingersoll Rand D18IN refrigerated air dryer
Millermatic 251 MIG
Everlast PowerPro 256 TIG/stick/plasma w/ water cooler
Thor
2.5 Star Member
2.5 Star Member
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:57 pm

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by Thor »

Most all of the cheap CO2 lasers from china and such on ebay etc will not engrave steel at all, no matter how powerful. The wavelength is just wrong and gets reflected by the steel. You can use Cermark spray and laser burn it onto a steel substrate but it can be wiped off. You could get a 2kw RF laser and do it but they are not cheap, nor is maintaining them.

The bigger problem with putting one on you plasma table is speed. While you may be able to set one up to do Vector engraving (lines), to do raster engraving (pics and shades) your plasma more than likely can not get the back and forth motion fast enough to run the laser at optimum speeds/power settings. Not just raw speed either but accel/decel to go back and forth at high rate. Laser engraver machines can do it as they use flying optics, basically the only thing it has to move back and forth on X axis is a mirror and lens.

Trying to make a plasma table into a jack of all trades machine will just end up in a master of none table.

The only real solution I am aware of atm is a fiber laser head from hypertherm that can cut and engrave. I'm sure though it would need a hypertherm controller not mach3 and the laser head itself is no doubt pretty pricey (I would guess at least around $60k)
jimcolt
5 Star Elite Contributing Member
5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 3087
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Laser engraving with CNC plasma table...?

Post by jimcolt »

The Hypertherm fiber laser can mark plate very well and can cut up to 3/4". It is in the $230k price range.

Jim Colt Hypertherm
Post Reply

Return to “Plate Markers, & Air Scribes”